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EP. REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury


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Nyren



Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:36 pm Reply with quote
dm wrote:
Rahxephon91 wrote:
Quote:
Uh...I mean, they weren't trying to kill each other...? It was a duel, just not one to the death.

....

It's just another reason this whole high school kids using advanced mobile suits for high school duels is idiotic.


Let me warn you now: stay away from a series called Girls und Panzer.
They at least made an effort in Girls und Panzer to explain it away: The tanks I guess have a lead lining that shields the inside, preventing any of the rounds from actually being fatal or cause serious injury... except that doesn't exactly hold up under any sort of realistic scrutiny. If a shell were to enter the tank from any of its openings, like the window for the driver or the hatch at the top, it'd be game over for the crew inside. No lead lining there. Especially if it ignites the ammo rack. And that's to say nothing of all the times these tanks barrel roll, which would definitely not be comfortable for those inside. BUT the original point was that G-Witch does nothing to prevent its duels from being fatal, though I feel like it was explained in the first episode that it has happened on a scant few occasions meaning the school does acknowledge the possibility. GuP does make a flimsy attempt to explain itself at the very least.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:47 pm Reply with quote
kgw wrote:
Also, it's strange, because the original tittle is/was supposed to be
あと一歩、キミに踏み出せたなら (If I could take one more step towards you.), according to shoboi. Dunno where the childhood friends come from.

That is, in fact, the title, as seen in the episode's title card, as well as the official website, the official Twitter, and every official venue... so yeah. WTF.
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JoelBurger





PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:25 pm Reply with quote
"Why does this show where dueling is the primary means of power in its setting use duels so much to settle conflicts???" Great analysis going on here.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:28 pm Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
Look on Crunchyroll. The episodes title is "More Than a Childhood Friend, But Not True Love"

Yep, but that's also the title for this weeks "More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers" Which would be a freaky coincidence if it weren't a Crunchy screwup, wouldn't it? The thing is, it does work pretty much as a title for this episode.

Kim Morrissy wrote:
There's only so much foreshadowing this series can do before the audience starts getting impatient about the payoff.

Plenty going on in this episode for us armchair theorizers though Very Happy.

MFrontier wrote:
Now that the duels are out of the way, I guess the main thrust will be Miorine discovering the truth about the Aerial and the GUND-Arm tech. She's already suspicious of Prospera but she's also noticing more how Suletta talks to Aerial like it's actually alive. And nobody knows the Pharact kills its pilot yet.

Yeah, more so then previous episodes Suletta wasn't just talking "at" Aerial. It was a full conversation, a negotiation. Whether Aerial really responds with a "voice" or not, this wasn't just anthropomorphizing. And even more conclusive, the neogication yielded results. Nobody else seemed to notice, but Miorine definitely did.

This will of course be taken as further evidence for the a-Eri-al theory for those who already support it. In my view it remains unnecessary to explain anything, so is still seems to be borne from a desire for Eri to still have a role to play in the story. Of course, nothing yet disproves it either. So I remain firmly on the fence. Like a coward.

The switch from red Gundam-lights to blue ones is clearly significant somehow, but we don't know in what way exactly. (If Gundams are illegal, why bother installing those things on the outside of your Mobile Suit?). It's presumably some indicator of a better symbiotic relationship between suit and pilot.

The other thing that conversation calls into question is: how much of the earlier duels was Suletta, and how much Aerial? I think we'd kinda assumed Suletta was at least in executive control, but maybe she was mostly a passenger? That doesn't feel quite right though from what we've seen, so "I've been leaving everything to you" is just Suletta selling herself a bit short.

Scrappy Earth House makes the most of what little they have, and Miorine, despite her snippy attitude, is proving herself an effective commander. The improvised (though anticipated) sniping setup was great to see. Also Chuchu wielding her severed arm/rifle as a club is very Chuchu.

We've expressed some doubts on Suletta's commitment to the central relationship beyond a kind of obligation and "safe port in a storm" clinging to the first person she met. I don't think we can call it romantic, but she is fully committed to the partnership. Miorine and Suletta have total faith in each other. Miorine demanding the event be live-streamed is a savy business move, but only if she had zero doubt Suletta and Earth House would win.

I guess if Guel can't go to school any more, he can get a job as a test pilot for GUND-Arm Inc. I suppose the renumeration package might be worse what wherever subsidiary Daddy wants to parcel him off to, but it'll be less soul destroying (though, potentially fatal at some point).
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zfunk



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 238
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:53 pm Reply with quote
So how long till one of the dorms are destroyed. I am just waiting for some terrorist group to blow it up, and that could kill off some characters.

I am also selfishly hoping for some circumstances the dorms have to merge, and please I am hoping Lilique and Renee have to be roommates, only one episode I am already sold on these characters being fun characters to be play off each other over how different they are assuming they are casualties in a would be attack on an dorm.
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primalmaximus



Joined: 05 Jan 2022
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Holy shit. When Suletta decided to pilot by herself, she used a completely different fighting style than what we've seen the Aerial use in the past.

Instead of using the Gund-Bits as a swarm that attacked and defended in unison, she started splitting them up. She had part of the swarm defend while a separate part attacked. She used a group to restrain an enemy while the rest of the swarm destroyed them.

So the fact that Suletta and Aerial working in unison made their control over the Gund-Bits, and the Gundam itself, more intricate shows split processing in action. The human and the AI were working together to lessen the load needed to process the sheer volume of data needed to operate the system.

And I'm certain that, from the look on her face, Miorine has realized that Suletta was being literal when she called Aerial her sister.

And despite how terrifying seeing the shift in fighting style was, seeing the rest of Earth House land the final blow was [expletive] amazing.
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Nyren



Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:19 pm Reply with quote
primalmaximus wrote:
Holy shit. When Suletta decided to pilot by herself, she used a completely different fighting style than what we've seen the Aerial use in the past.

Instead of using the Gund-Bits as a swarm that attacked and defended in unison, she started splitting them up. She had part of the swarm defend while a separate part attacked. She used a group to restrain an enemy while the rest of the swarm destroyed them.

So the fact that Suletta and Aerial working in unison made their control over the Gund-Bits, and the Gundam itself, more intricate shows split processing in action. The human and the AI were working together to lessen the load needed to process the sheer volume of data needed to operate the system.

And I'm certain that, from the look on her face, Miorine has realized that Suletta was being literal when she called Aerial her sister.

And despite how terrifying seeing the shift in fighting style was, seeing the rest of Earth House land the final blow was [expletive] amazing.
So the thing I feel the need to point out here: They weren't working in unison. Aerial specifically asks Suletta if she wants to do it together, and she says "No. I want to do it by myself because I'm always relying on you." So Aerial itself took a backseat while Suletta did everything. I'm very curious as to why the change to blue mattered. Antidote is supposed to sever the GUND connection between the Gundam and its bits, it's why Aerial shut down hard. But suddenly when Aerial gave complete control over to Suletta, the color changed and suddenly connection to the bits was re-established. The only thing I can think of to explain this is that the GUND connection WASN'T re-established, and that Suletta was actually issuing commands to them manually via some other form of link that Antidote doesn't interfere with. Though perhaps not because it seemed to have an Anti-Antidote effect on the Beguir-Pente's. I'm interested to see what direction they go with that. And I'm also curious to see what happens when Suletta and Aerial DO work in unison with one another. Gonna be something crazy probably. And I can see the coloration being gold or green. Or maybe a rainbow because reasons.
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primalmaximus



Joined: 05 Jan 2022
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
primalmaximus wrote:
Holy shit. When Suletta decided to pilot by herself, she used a completely different fighting style than what we've seen the Aerial use in the past.

Instead of using the Gund-Bits as a swarm that attacked and defended in unison, she started splitting them up. She had part of the swarm defend while a separate part attacked. She used a group to restrain an enemy while the rest of the swarm destroyed them.

So the fact that Suletta and Aerial working in unison made their control over the Gund-Bits, and the Gundam itself, more intricate shows split processing in action. The human and the AI were working together to lessen the load needed to process the sheer volume of data needed to operate the system.

And I'm certain that, from the look on her face, Miorine has realized that Suletta was being literal when she called Aerial her sister.

And despite how terrifying seeing the shift in fighting style was, seeing the rest of Earth House land the final blow was [expletive] amazing.
So the thing I feel the need to point out here: They weren't working in unison. Aerial specifically asks Suletta if she wants to do it together, and she says "No. I want to do it by myself because I'm always relying on you." So Aerial itself took a backseat while Suletta did everything. I'm very curious as to why the change to blue mattered. Antidote is supposed to sever the GUND connection between the Gundam and its bits, it's why Aerial shut down hard. But suddenly when Aerial gave complete control over to Suletta, the color changed and suddenly connection to the bits was re-established. The only thing I can think of to explain this is that the GUND connection WASN'T re-established, and that Suletta was actually issuing commands to them manually via some other form of link that Antidote doesn't interfere with. Though perhaps not because it seemed to have an Anti-Antidote effect on the Beguir-Pente's. I'm interested to see what direction they go with that. And I'm also curious to see what happens when Suletta and Aerial DO work in unison with one another. Gonna be something crazy probably. And I can see the coloration being gold or green. Or maybe a rainbow because reasons.


Holy shit. That makes it even more terrifying. So Suletta's lack of confidence was making her hold back this entire time. She could have been piloting like this from the beginning if she'd been more confident. And, what made the Shaddiq team panic wasn't the fact that Suletta countered their Antidote, the Gund Jammer, it was that she started piloting like a completely different person. Because there was a different person piloting.
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Nyren



Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 702
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:53 pm Reply with quote
primalmaximus wrote:
Nyren wrote:
primalmaximus wrote:
Holy shit. When Suletta decided to pilot by herself, she used a completely different fighting style than what we've seen the Aerial use in the past.

Instead of using the Gund-Bits as a swarm that attacked and defended in unison, she started splitting them up. She had part of the swarm defend while a separate part attacked. She used a group to restrain an enemy while the rest of the swarm destroyed them.

So the fact that Suletta and Aerial working in unison made their control over the Gund-Bits, and the Gundam itself, more intricate shows split processing in action. The human and the AI were working together to lessen the load needed to process the sheer volume of data needed to operate the system.

And I'm certain that, from the look on her face, Miorine has realized that Suletta was being literal when she called Aerial her sister.

And despite how terrifying seeing the shift in fighting style was, seeing the rest of Earth House land the final blow was [expletive] amazing.
So the thing I feel the need to point out here: They weren't working in unison. Aerial specifically asks Suletta if she wants to do it together, and she says "No. I want to do it by myself because I'm always relying on you." So Aerial itself took a backseat while Suletta did everything. I'm very curious as to why the change to blue mattered. Antidote is supposed to sever the GUND connection between the Gundam and its bits, it's why Aerial shut down hard. But suddenly when Aerial gave complete control over to Suletta, the color changed and suddenly connection to the bits was re-established. The only thing I can think of to explain this is that the GUND connection WASN'T re-established, and that Suletta was actually issuing commands to them manually via some other form of link that Antidote doesn't interfere with. Though perhaps not because it seemed to have an Anti-Antidote effect on the Beguir-Pente's. I'm interested to see what direction they go with that. And I'm also curious to see what happens when Suletta and Aerial DO work in unison with one another. Gonna be something crazy probably. And I can see the coloration being gold or green. Or maybe a rainbow because reasons.


Holy shit. That makes it even more terrifying. So Suletta's lack of confidence was making her hold back this entire time. She could have been piloting like this from the beginning if she'd been more confident. And, what made the Shaddiq team panic wasn't the fact that Suletta countered their Antidote, the Gund Jammer, it was that she started piloting like a completely different person. Because there was a different person piloting.
Yes, 100%. And I just went back and watched it again, and I feel the need to point something else out: Suletta distinguishes between Aerial, the Mobile Suit, and the GUND Bits. Like when referring to the Bits she refers to them in the plural whereas Aerial is Aerial. So this is a big what-if, but WHAT IF, there's more than one AI involved here? What if every Bit has some form of AI? Maybe not as complex as Lfrith/Aerial itself, but something with capability. And if you watch the Bits after Suletta takes command, they seem to link in pairs of three with a beam going between and forming a triangle. The Bits are supporting one another, I assume, computationally. And perhaps that's the Anti-Antidote trick. This would also have the effect of drastically cutting down on how many Bits you need to control because they're linked in 3's now. So if there are 9 bits, you go from controlling 9 individual ones, to controlling one bit per group for a total of three and it relays a sort of group command to the other two in its set. That would also make it easier for Suletta to manage on her own.
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PandaXs1



Joined: 16 Apr 2021
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:36 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Nyren"]
dm wrote:
Rahxephon91 wrote:
Quote:
Uh...I mean, they weren't trying to kill each other...? It was a duel, just not one to the death.

....

It's just another reason this whole high school kids using advanced mobile suits for high school duels is idiotic.

[...]
BUT the original point was that G-Witch does nothing to prevent its duels from being fatal, though I feel like it was explained in the first episode that it has happened on a scant few occasions meaning the school does acknowledge the possibility. GuP does make a flimsy attempt to explain itself at the very least.

holy crap guys, let's remember 2 things here:
1) the only, and I cannot emphasize this enough, only way to win a duel is to break the antenna on your opponent's mobile suit, which is typically nowhere near the cockpit.
2) in the far supercapitalist future, murder is probably still frowned upon.

clearly there might be accidents where someone gets injured or dies (looking at you Aaron Burr), but the point of duels was never about straight up killing others, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to use a duel as a way to get rid of another student when there's probably more clandestine ways to get away with it.

also looking into it, academic dueling was and still is a thing in Europe, and deaths became way less common after they started regulating duels, so it's not like this is being made up without any thought.

JoelBurger wrote:
"Why does this show where dueling is the primary means of power in its setting use duels so much to settle conflicts???" Great analysis going on here.

why does this show that's part of a franchise that sells robot toys have so many robots????
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 14 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:43 pm Reply with quote
It's funny Kim starts out the review insisting Shaddiq and Miorine is a good ship, since the point I took from this whole two-parter is that he is absolutely the wrong person to be her partner, specifically because of everything he does in the name of "protecting" her. It's also what makes him an interesting character, and yet another reflection of how all these kids are learning the worst lessons from their parents.

See, Shaddiq insists he's different a lot, and even seems to think it's the truth. After all, he's the forward thinker who wants to properly explo- er, properly implement the Gundam technology to better serve the conglomerate. And he's not interested in becoming the Holder just to lord control over Miorine, he just wants to help her, if only she could recognize that. He's not like the other guys!

But through his actions we can tell that Miorine's reading of him is pretty accurate. His particular brand of help is no less condescending and patronizing than her father's, he just puts a smooth smirk and nice words on top to make it seem like he's doing it for the right reasons. He may genuinely care about her, but he also doesn't believe in her or her ambitions. If he did, he'd have been working to help her escape. But in his mind The Group's control is absolute and immutable, so instead he takes it upon himself to "help" her give up on those silly dreams of before they blow up in his face. First by "trusting" Guel with her, then by doing everything he could to force a hostile takeover before cornering them into a duel, the same thing every other person trying to control Miorine's life has done.

Because in truth, he's not different. His motivation may be less cynical, but he's ultimately offering a different leash to keep Miorine on, while insisting he'll make a nice big and cozy dog house for her to live the rest of her life in. He may genuinely care about her, but he's not fit to be a partner, because partners are equals with mutual trust, and that's not something he's capable of right now.

Also it's just very funny to me that between the smooth talker attitude and his psuedo-harem of pilots, Shaddiq is very much trying to be like Naze Turbine from IBO, but is missing the most important part of what made that whole space bigamy setup actually touching. Laughing
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:20 am Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
It's funny Kim starts out the review insisting Shaddiq and Miorine is a good ship, since the point I took from this whole two-parter is that he is absolutely the wrong person to be her partner

Obviously I can't speak for the reviewer, but honestly I'm scratching my head over these reactions that go "how can you say they're a good ship? he's clearly bad for her!" Duh, obviously! Nobody said he wasn't, the episode made no secret of his flaws and how he basically dug his own grave re: his relationship with Miorine and his chances of it ever becoming romantic. They made it amply clear, I don't think it needs any explaining. But, at leat for me, "good ship" means "these characters have interesting dynamics that I enjoy thinking about". It doesn't mean "these characters are good for each other and their relationship is healthy and wholesome" (usually quite the opposite, heh). If I only shipped relationships that are unquestionably good and healthy my fannish life would be extremely boring.

Personally I don't really ship Miorine and Shaddiq (their dynamics is not one I personally go for), but I really enjoyed their relationship as portrayed in this episode, and much like the reviewer, I appreciated how in the end it still managed to be bittersweet, with showing how Shaddiq really did mean wanting to protect her, even if the way he'd been going around doing so was misguided at the very least, and how Miorine would have liked to have him as someone to lean on, but knew better than to allow him in. It was a neat, low-key little personal tragedy in three parts, wrapped with a bow - essentially a much condensed version of Touga's arc in Utena spoiler[(where Touga and Utena have a very similar relationship and dynamics, and it ends in a similar way)].
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:14 pm Reply with quote
Shaddiq, I think, has genuine affection for Miorine. He doesn't see her as a trophy as such, at least not the way Guel did. He found the duels distasteful, and wanted Miorine to choose. But he wanted Miorine to choose what he was offering, which was a gilded cage. In that way he's much more like her father than either Guel or Elan. He's less of an asshole about it (at least on the surface), but at it's core it's a patronising paternalism. What he wants is to be able to tell Miorine what's best for her, and for her to accept it. So on that front, I agree with everything @losstheif says. And both Miorine and Suletta accurately call him out on it in the episode. ("I choose to have faith in my bride" is up there with "that's another way of saying you lost" on the sudden moments of clarity from Suletta)

But I do also agree with @SHD that for lots of people, shipping isn't really about that.

Nyren wrote:
What if every Bit has some form of AI? Maybe not as complex as Lfrith/Aerial itself, but something with capability. And if you watch the Bits after Suletta takes command, they seem to link in pairs of three with a beam going between and forming a triangle. The Bits are supporting one another, I assume, computationally. And perhaps that's the Anti-Antidote trick. This would also have the effect of drastically cutting down on how many Bits you need to control because they're linked in 3's now. So if there are 9 bits, you go from controlling 9 individual ones, to controlling one bit per group for a total of three and it relays a sort of group command to the other two in its set. That would also make it easier for Suletta to manage on her own.


We did see something along these lines in the fight with Elan-4. I think there's sufficient evidence to suggest that the Bits are, at the very least, semi-autonomous fragments of the broader Aerial consciousness. The mind of an octopus might be a suitable model - they're fascinatingly alien. Each arm is capable of localised processing, but is still directed by a central core. Aerial is an artificial consciousness, there's no reason it must have the same structure and limitations we do.

I will commit to saying what they are not, is a different sacrificed Eri clone in each Bit. That's taking a-Eri-al to a whole new level of unnecessary crazy.
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MagicianMan



Joined: 28 Jun 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:36 am Reply with quote
Thesarum wrote:

I will commit to saying what they are not, is a different sacrificed Eri clone in each Bit. That's taking a-Eri-al to a whole new level of unnecessary crazy.


Maybe the real Gundam was the Eris we made along the way.


Last edited by MagicianMan on Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:40 am Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
What if every Bit has some form of AI? Maybe not as complex as Lfrith/Aerial itself, but something with capability. And if you watch the Bits after Suletta takes command, they seem to link in pairs of three with a beam going between and forming a triangle. The Bits are supporting one another, I assume, computationally.


This seems like a really simple form of inter-bit coordination; I'm not sure it requires anything sophisticated enough to call AI. Distantly reminiscent of algorithms for simulating flocking behavior in birds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocking_(behavior)#Algorithm
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