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This Week in Anime - Why Was Code Geass Such a Big Deal?


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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6114
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:20 pm Reply with quote
tintor2 wrote:
Super Robot Wars is known for their retcons a lot like the famous scene of Bright disciplining Shinji, Setsuna not joining the aliens or half of Gurren Lagann's characters surviving to their final fights. In one installment Zeta Char somehow discovers what he will do in Counterattack and swears that he will never sink that low.


Not the guy that setup “his best friend” to be killed in a blaze of glory realizing how bad dropping a meteor on earth decades after Zeon did the same with a colony.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5901
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Code Geass was one of my favorite anime. Lelouch was the major reason why. CC, Kallen, and Euphemia also helped.

Yeah, there were times it was stupid and silly, but most of the time it was fun.

While they nailed the emotional end of the TV series, they must have been running out of money or had to rush the ending for some other reason. It was just too rushed.

And even if I said they rushed the ending, they still nailed it. I could feel Nunnally's pain and felt sorry for Lelouch's sacrifice.
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Rob19ny



Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 1814
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:10 pm Reply with quote
Code Geass was such a big deal because its the GOAT. Specifically Season 1. It gave me my #1 waifu Kallen. It thrived in being in that 1 AM time slot and affected the lives of many who witnessed its greatness. Unfortunately, Sunrise executives saw how much money it was making them in home video sales then decided "We want more money" and you know what happens when that happens? Meddling. Code Geass time slot changed from 1 AM at night to 5 PM in the evening to cater to mainstream audiences. Because of this meddling of the time slots, Taniguchi and Okouchi's vision for the 2nd season had to be altered (Lelouch dying was always planned), which is why R2 starts the way it did in episode 1 (known as Turn 1). Before the time slot change, Taniguchi and Okouchi had already completed episode 26 (known as Stage 26 following the 1st seasons episode term). It was now locked away (actually, it was released with one of the R2 home video volumes if I recall). With the change of their vision, Rollo, for example, was created for R2 among many things. What was sacrificed in the process? Suzaku's connection with Geass that was shown in Season 1, for example. Now, why is the 2nd series called R2? I just explained it, but R2 means Route 2. R1 (Route 1) is the original episode 26. This is why R2's episodes start from the beginning with "Turn 1" instead of being called "Stage 26" after the GOATed Stage 25 finale. This was last stated by Kojiro Taniguchi, producer of CG, back in December 2018 during a CG event.

I can't speak for others, but when I watched R2 as it was airing, it didn't feel like the same CG I watched in the 1st season. I didn't even know about the executive meddling until after I finished R2. I mean sure, it kept the fanservice, but there were no more nipples being shown, for example. In episode 3 of CG, Kallen's nipples in the shower are shown. In episode 3 of R2, Kallen enters a room with a towel on after coming out the shower. I saw what they were doing. The things in Season 1 that made it CG wasn't in R2 for me. I could feel it. R2 by itself is still a good watch, but it wasn't the sequel I expected and that's due to the original sequel not being told. I've been waiting for the TRUE sequel to the 1st season, but CG is stuck either connecting to the events of R2 (Akito) or making an alternate timeline thats so weak compared to the original story all for the purpose of making new CG content under Sunrise's mainstream audience plans. Taniguchi and Okouchi aren't getting younger. They are turning 60 in the next few years. I wish the executives would let them finish their vision. Its CG. It will make money.

As for the alternate canon movies and Resurrection... as a Lelouch x Kallen shipper, the movies removed all the Lelouch and Kallen scenes that built their chemistry. They were basically turned into strangers, and thats why Kallen says what she says in Resurrection about Lelouch before the final battle, which was a spit in the face. R2 immediately starts with pushing Lelouch x Kallen. After the Lelouch using refrain episode, Taniguchi stated had Kallen let Lelouch kiss her, they wouldn't be virgins in the morning (with a laugh). It makes me think that despite Lelouch dying was always planned, was pushing Lelouch x Kallen scenes in the original vision as well had it been made instead of R2. It didn't even feel unnatural. You know what felt unnatural? Continuing reading. The movies kept certain dead characters alive and killed the alive characters. Not only that, Taniguchi said Shirley was Lelouch's girlfriend in the movies yet they had no chemistry together and the events of Resurrection made that "girlfriend" statement look bad because of the ending of the movie (spoiler[Lelouch and CC? Don't ask me why this is the one I choose to spoiler tag]). Resurrection was a typical 1 time movie a series gets thats so weak in comparison to the main story. Whenever CG tells a story outside of Japan/main story, its just so weak. Taniguchi and Okouchi are my GOAT's when it comes to the 1st Season, but anything after that, especially a decade after... it gets worse and worse. This is why I want the TRUE sequel, so they can tell their story and be done.

Lastly, when Sunrise started catering the casual/mainstream audience, they gave up showing nipples in their works. In Akito, we had best girl Ayano and Leila. What did they do? Not show nipples, but did fanservice them. But guess what they did? They actually showed nipples in a shower scene with a character we didn't care about. A spit in the face to the original CG fans. Now in Resurrection, Kallen and other original characters are back. What did they do? Not show nipples. You can guess what they did later on. They showed nipples in a bath scene (in the article) with a character we didn't care about. Another spit in the face. Sunrise has a habit of this because they did it in The Origin showing nipples of a obaachan we didn't want to see naked. I know its to intentionally piss people off. I miss pre-2000's Sunrise.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4665
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:00 am Reply with quote
Watching Code Geass was an absolute blast. It's this almost perfect pulpy mix of big emotions, ever-escalating plot twists, fantastic hand-drawn Sunrise mech animation, CLAMP's goofy noodle-people designs, and Goro Taniguchi's signature colorful bombastic direction. It'll delve into deep ends-justifying-the-means ethical choices at one moment, then swing wildly to absurd school shenanigans in the next. (I swear those episodes are some of the funniest dumb nonsense I've ever seen.) The first season had its share of craziness, but then R2 cranks everything up to 11 and goes completely batshit insane in the best possible way. There were so many Lelouch-vs-Light debates back in the day, but for me it was no contest: the former actually maintained his good intentions even as he paved his road to hell, while the latter jumped to being an irredeemable a-hole after just two episodes. And yes, the dub was spectacular, a veritable who's-who of veteran LA-based actors at the height of the 2000s anime bubble, all of them chewing up the scenery at every turn. I'm seriously overdue for a rewatch.

Despite the authors' viewpoints, I do want to go back and check out the movie compilation so I can finally check off Resurrection. Is it going to be a total BS asspull way of bringing Lelouch back? Oh, absolutely, but I still want to spend more time with these characters regardless.

(And yes, I strongly second checking out Back Arrow for anyone who hasn't done so. It's more of Taniguchi just cutting loose and was some of the most fun I've had with an anime in a long time.)
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Lizuka



Joined: 27 Jul 2018
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:41 am Reply with quote
It's kind of interesting in that I love Princess Principal but have never had like the slightest bit of interest in checking out Code Geass. Not sure why.
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K765



Joined: 05 Dec 2022
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:00 am Reply with quote
Dr. Wily wrote:
Quote:
Fans of extra-noodly CLAMP designs fighting in giant rollerblading robots never had it so good.


That just reminded me of how I was so disappointed when all the mechs started to fly. Like, at first it was real cool when it was just Suzaku and his super-prototype, but I thought the robots wheeling around was a genuinely cool idea that I don't think I'd seen before or since in a mecha anim.


If Code Geass isn't Sunrises second most popular mecha series, then it is Votoms. And Votoms is almost exclusively wheeling around mechs, except for a few space episodes.

tintor2 wrote:
In fact, even Tomino himself retconned Quess' fate in an OVA once.


Tomino was never involved in any Gundam OVA. Are you confusing it with a novel?
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1937
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:54 am Reply with quote
K765 wrote:


tintor2 wrote:
In fact, even Tomino himself retconned Quess' fate in an OVA once.


Tomino was never involved in any Gundam OVA. Are you confusing it with a novel?


Gundam Evolve. It's an OVA which had an episode focused on Counterattack but Amuro manages to make Quess drop the fight and go to Hathaway, retconning also the Hathaway novels. Then again Counterattack's subplot about the kids sure was harsh.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2885
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:12 am Reply with quote
Well even back then there was the theory that by somwthing the geass, lulu be ame immortal just like CC, I don remember.th specifics, tho, but it was fine

Also, akito ... Well I only remember it because it had female lulu, and that's enough.
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2171
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:04 am Reply with quote
I saw a video clip once that took a section from episode 2 and switched between the Japanese and English audio tracks based on what a character would theoretically be speaking in-universe. So Lelouch and Shirley's lines are in English, Ougi's are in Japanese, and Kallen speaks Japanese at first but switches to English when Lelouch calls her on the radio. I thought it was pretty neat, as someone who grew up watching Shalom Sesame videotapes. Wish I could find the clip again; I think it was on a Japanese site. Maybe Niconico (then Nico Nico Douga), though I can't find it there either.

MarshalBanana wrote:
In the West, I think it was one of the last few pre-streaming hits, along with Brotherhood, Soul Eater and Death Note.


Oh, FMA: Brotherhood wasn't a pre-streaming hit -- it was one of the first streaming hits. 2009 was the first year where simulcasts started expanding beyond a single-digit number of Crunchyroll experiments like The Tower of Druaga, and Funimation stepped into the game with the much-anticipated "manga-accurate" FMA remake.

(Wikipedia listing One Piece under Spring is a bit misleading -- as they note elsewhere, the simulcast actually started in August after a false start in May. Naruto Shippuden's placement is misleading too; Viz started streaming it with a one-week delay in January. Brotherhood's delay was shorter, though, and it was streaming from episode 1.)
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4665
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:58 am Reply with quote
Lizuka wrote:
It's kind of interesting in that I love Princess Principal but have never had like the slightest bit of interest in checking out Code Geass. Not sure why.

Speaking of, I loved the hell out of Princess Principal too, but I was surprised to see the article talk down the Crown Handler movies, because I felt they were every bit as entertaining as the series proper. Their only real fault is how spaced out they've been.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1214
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:13 am Reply with quote
Lizuka wrote:
It's kind of interesting in that I love Princess Principal but have never had like the slightest bit of interest in checking out Code Geass. Not sure why.

To be fair, they're not that similar beyond some arguable superficial points.

I would also agree with the above poster on Crown Handler, I think they've been pretty good. And this is making me realize it's been a bit over a year since Chapter 3 came out in Japan and there's no sign of when we're officially getting it here...
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4119
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:36 am Reply with quote
I love the first season, like bits of the second season but for me, the franchise is all done with the two seasons as anything further is more than a little pointless.

I always forget Code Geass is a mech show though, mostly because the Nightmares are the least interesting part of the franchise as they're alongside high school comedy antics, modern feudal politics, alternate world history and magic powers.
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Silver Kirin



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1147
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:03 pm Reply with quote
Code Geass was practically one of the first "original" anime that I watched subbed back in the Wild West times of YouTube, I think it was around 2008 or 2009, back in those days I wanted to expand my anime knowledge, I mainly watched anime of TV, back it was during those days were there were barely new anime shows on TV, it wouldn't be until 2016/17 were anime would be more easly and legally accesible here in Latin America. I was mainly trying to get into mecha shows, I already saw a couple of shows like the original Mobile Suit Gundam and Gurren Lagann, but when I found about the popularity of Code Geass I gave it a watched and I was very impressed, it felt like a Gundam show without the space elements, plus a lot of high-school clichés and supernatural elements, but honestly, I never really cared about the Ashford Academy stuff, even as a teenager. I really liked the show, I even rewatched 3 times, but I always felt like there were plenty of things that went unexplored, like the Geass itself. Never bothered to watch Akito and Re;surrection was kind of underwhelming to me.
Rob19ny wrote:
Unfortunately, Sunrise executives saw how much money it was making them in home video sales then decided "We want more money" and you know what happens when that happens? Meddling. Code Geass time slot changed from 1 AM at night to 5 PM in the evening to cater to mainstream audiences. Because of this meddling of the time slots, Taniguchi and Okouchi's vision for the 2nd season had to be altered (Lelouch dying was always planned), which is why R2 starts the way it did in episode 1 (known as Turn 1). Before the time slot change, Taniguchi and Okouchi had already completed episode 26 (known as Stage 26 following the 1st seasons episode term). It was now locked away (actually, it was released with one of the R2 home video volumes if I recall). With the change of their vision, Rollo, for example, was created for R2 among many things. What was sacrificed in the process? Suzaku's connection with Geass that was shown in Season 1, for example.

I remeber hearing that plenty of the ideas that were planned for Code Geass' story got cut out for season two, I remember hearing that Kallen's brother was supossed to appear, there's also the fact that at the end of season 1 Shirley discovers the piece of paper she wrote about Lelouch being Zero before the latter erased her memories. I'd love to see a sort of Code Geass reboot, something akin to the Rebuild of Evangelion films or the Final Fantasy VII Remake project but as a TV show, it could be like a remake of the original show at first, perhaps updating some things, bacuse despite having flying robots the shows dates itself to the mid 2000s, but halfway they can change some of the original plot and maybe recycle some of the original concepts they had in mind for R2.
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mgree0032



Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 277
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:22 pm Reply with quote
I think the dub didn’t age well as people said it was.
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quentntarantado



Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Unfortunately, I didn't like Code Geass. I read God Emperor of Dune years (decades?) earlier and I thought this is a similar story, I knew how it would end.
Funny enough, I just realized that Attack on Titan is the total opposite. In Code Geass, we're with a villain who's actually the hero, and Attack on Titan we'e with the hero who's actually the Final Boss. I prefer AOC.
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