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That Little Rapscallion
Joined: 31 Jul 2023
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:47 pm
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| Egan Loo wrote: | | If one reads the last link, one would find Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts were not banned there. If one reads the other links, one would find they were not just "one or two people raising concerns." In all the cases, they were not book bans.
Again, are there multiple examples of Harry Potter book bans due to Rowling's views, as opposed to boycotts? |
I provided many examples for you already. You asked for examples of Harry Potter being banned from places by left-leaning individuals and reason and gave you plenty.
Just to be clear here you're arguing that any event, convention, or museum that pulls Harry Potter media are simply "boycotts" rather than "bans" in these cases? Despite the fact they have no problem freely using the word "ban" in their statements on their decisions?
Last edited by That Little Rapscallion on Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Egan Loo
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1347
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:49 pm
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| That Little Rapscallion wrote: |
| Egan Loo wrote: | | If one reads the last link, one would find Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts were not banned there. If one reads the other links, one would find they were not just "one or two people raising concerns." In all the cases, they were not book bans.
Again, are there multiple examples of Harry Potter book bans due to Rowling's views, as opposed to boycotts? |
I provided many examples for you already. You asked for examples of Harry Potter being banned from places by left-leaning individuals and reason and gave you plenty.
Just to be clear here you're arguing that any places that pull Harry Potter media are simply "boycotts" rather than "bans" in these cases? |
To keep this on topic, the key words are "book bans."
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That Little Rapscallion
Joined: 31 Jul 2023
Posts: 58
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:00 pm
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| Egan Loo wrote: | | To keep this on topic, the key words are "book bans." |
Perhaps these quick and dirty Google searching examples will suffice then.
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InuNaruPokeAlchemist
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 413
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:06 pm
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| Wack Sage wrote: |
| InuNaruPokeAlchemist wrote: | | Ban some of the more problematic BLs not this one. Florida needs to be wiped off the map at this point. |
Advocating to ban some stuff but not others isn't really helping since what's considered problematic is going to depend on each individual person and clearly they view that series as problematic BL. Comments like this just come off like people upset other people have that power to remove stuff they don't like and they don't.
Saying people need to be "wiped off the map" over a book not being in a library is pretty disturbing. |
Your right I'm sorry for my words. I have since receded what I said. I just really wish I could understand what goes through some of the heads of these people.
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Egan Loo
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1347
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:07 pm
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| That Little Rapscallion wrote: |
| Egan Loo wrote: | | To keep this on topic, the key words are "book bans." |
Perhaps these quick and dirty Google searching examples will suffice then. |
Those are ones I saw before. However, as the links note, the four bookstores will still fill orders for Rowling's books.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6246
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:30 pm
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| juaifan wrote: | | Harry Potter's book ban back in the 90s was fueled by religious fear over Satanism because of the witchcraft stuff. These days Harry Potter's ban is fueled by left-wing fear over people not liking Rowling. |
I wouldn’t really compared the two the original ban was over bullshit. The current backlash against Rowling is because she’s a open transphobe.
| Wack Sage wrote: | | Advocating to ban some stuff but not others isn't really helping since what's considered problematic is going to depend on each individual person and clearly they view that series as problematic BL. |
Just because you have people who may take a different tack with some stuff doesn’t mean those differing opinions have value or are rooted in common sense.
Which is why you have some in states like Florida wanting you to consider such things as slaves learning valuable skills (not reading and writing of course). That could be applied to their everyday lives.
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/floridas-new-history-standard-blow-our-students-and-nation
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TokimekiCrisis
Joined: 01 Nov 2022
Posts: 46
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:38 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | I wouldn’t really compared the two the original ban was over bullshit. The current backlash against Rowling is because she’s a open transphobe. |
"Censorship is okay as long as it's for the right reasons" is one hell of a take. And one that always ends up coming back around when you least suspect it.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 681
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:32 pm
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| TokimekiCrisis wrote: |
| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | I wouldn’t really compared the two the original ban was over bullshit. The current backlash against Rowling is because she’s a open transphobe. |
"Censorship is okay as long as it's for the right reasons" is one hell of a take. And one that always ends up coming back around when you least suspect it. |
People refusing to buy her books and companies refusing to associate with her because she won’t stop spewing hatred is not censorship. I get that words don’t actually mean anything to you because you’re trying real hard to correlate LGBT content with outright bigotry, but come on. You gonna start forcing people to buy more Harry Potter stuff? Think Elon should tack that onto his suit against advertisers not giving him money to be on Twitter because he made it a hate speech haven?
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Errinundra
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6577
Location: Melbourne, Oz
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 2:06 am
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Comments are getting trollish. I've deleted one post and its reply. Be polite.
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mgree0032
Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 291
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 4:02 am
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This comes to the solution that banning something doesn’t make it better, it only makes the situation worse. The “think of the children” excuse was really an excuse that translates to “think of the children, so we don’t have to!” Banning manga needs to stop.
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Wack Sage
Joined: 11 Nov 2023
Posts: 48
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:10 am
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | Just because you have people who may take a different tack with some stuff doesn’t mean those differing opinions have value or are rooted in common sense |
You're missing the point. Moral policing has never and will never stop at what you personally deem objectionable. Bargaining with people to only censor "the bad stuff" never works. It's always a slippery slope and will be used against you in the end. You can think your stance is the most morally superior and objectionably right one with all the common sense in the world backing it up.. That won't stop other people from challenging the books and media you enjoy when all it takes is one person to make that call. It's much more effective to stamp out media censorship at it's root than trying to trim the hedges into the shape you want.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6246
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:01 am
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| Wack Sage wrote: | | Bargaining with people to only censor "the bad stuff" never works. It's always a slippery slope and will be used against you in the end. |
I mean even if true that hasn’t lead to the people who pushed for and supported these laws reconciling how stupid and damaging these laws are. Nor is it likely to lead to course correcting under the current government.
| Wack Sage wrote: | | It's much more effective to stamp out media censorship at its root than trying to trim the hedges into the shape you want. |
Effective doesn’t mean easy.
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FeelMyBlade
Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 155
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:33 am
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I am against all forms of censorship on principal. However, if a book is freely available to be bought and it has not been edited or censored then I don't think a school not stocking a specific book counts as censorship any more than Borders not stocking Kodomo no Jikan back in the day or Viz dropping Rurouni Kenshin in recent years. As ATastySub alluded to you cant force people to buy a book, nor can you force a company to license a series, or force a store to carry it. It's all personal choice. I can disagree with some of those decisions but you can't force anyone to do anything at the end of the day.
These discussions are always muddied when it comes to schools because it involves minors and also taking away parents agency on how they raise their kids. Ultimately I feel a parent should be the one making the call what their kid is reading just like they can determine what kind of food their kid can eat or TV and movies their kids can watch or what websites their kids can visit.. Books should be no different. Unless you're 18 your parents are in charge of you. If they're fine with you reading a book then they can buy it for you and you can read it outside of school.
The question I always ask in these discussions is if the title being removed was another one that people didn't like would they argue the same way. Are people against the practice of removing a book or are they against that specific book being removed? Given some of the comments about other titles people have some strong opinions on titles like Seven Deadly Sins and Chainsaw Man I have to wonder if this was reversed and the school was pulling those two books would this garner as much backlash or anger. Or would they stand back and approve because they do not like the series or the content they have? The only factor that could change the discussion is age rating and if a middle school having an M rated book would be an issue. But these manga are all rated T for Teen so it's legal for kids to read them.
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 1440
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:50 am
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| FeelMyBlade wrote: | | I am against all forms of censorship on principal. However, if a book is freely available to be bought and it has not been edited or censored then I don't think a school not stocking a specific book counts as censorship any more than Borders not stocking Kodomo no Jikan back in the day or Viz dropping Rurouni Kenshin in recent years. As ATastySub alluded to you cant force people to buy a book, nor can you force a company to license a series, or force a store to carry it. It's all personal choice. I can disagree with some of those decisions but you can't force anyone to do anything at the end of the day.
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This is just a blatant misrepresentation of the dynamic here. This is not a case of the school librarians saying "Yeah, this title really isn't appropriate for the kids at our school, so we're not going to buy it." This is the case of a single parent's complaint - in conjunction with an overreaching and purposefully open-ended state law designed to remove any books that mention or deal with things like racism, LGBTQ identity, etc - being used to remove a book solely for the fact that it has gay people. I don't see how that somehow bypasses your own definition of censorship that you claim to be stalwartly opposed to.
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TheSeventhSense
Joined: 09 Mar 2013
Posts: 100
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:41 am
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| Wack Sage wrote: |
| InuNaruPokeAlchemist wrote: | | Ban some of the more problematic BLs not this one. Florida needs to be wiped off the map at this point. |
Advocating to ban some stuff but not others isn't really helping since what's considered problematic is going to depend on each individual person and clearly they view that series as problematic BL. Comments like this just come off like people upset other people have that power to remove stuff they don't like and they don't.
Saying people need to be "wiped off the map" over a book not being in a library is pretty disturbing. |
If the school actually had Sensitive Pornograph or Dick Fight Island - sure, I understand not putting that in a school. The issue is that those would never end up in a school because school librarians are trained professionals in collection development, and some random parent suggesting Chainsaw Man clearly is not.
Let's try something less extreme than wiping them off the map - if you challenge a book in a library, I think you should lose your right to vote.
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