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Hey, Answerman! [2007-02-16]


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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:28 am Reply with quote
Clichés give series negative stigma and thus should be avoided like the plague. Cool

I'm not going to give Otakukin any excused, but as a (hopefully) rational-thinking person, I'm willing to hypothesize that if there exists an infinite amount of alternate parallel universes, then there there is the probability that what we see in fictional media has occured. That being said, they're still in need of a reality check.

I could make a Kanon reference here (since Zac mentioned otherkin) but I'll refrain, although I'm starting to think if reincarnation exists, I was a cat in a former life
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:56 am Reply with quote
LadySage wrote:
Cowboy Cadenza has it pretty much on the nose.

You just made my day. Thanks. Very Happy I just finished getting harassed about not seeing what's so special about Ouran High School Host Club, so coming back to see that was really nice.

Also, I've reached the conclusion that anyone who hates Honey & Clover is inherently evil.
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5631
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:03 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Seriously, if shows like Sailor Moon and Naruto weren't around, these people wouldn't even say that they have powers they saw on these series.


Trust me...these people would have found something else to obsess over and have "powers" from. Rolling Eyes

Zac wrote
Quote:
The fansub arguments revolve generally around Americans, Europeans and Canadians, residents in highly developed, rich countries who have the means to buy anime but simply don't feel that it's worth anything. If you live in Kazakhstan or wherever and the economy there simply doesn't support luxury goods... I mean, the licensors probably don't even care about you watching anime for free online. Well, maybe they do, but their chief concern are the people who would buy it but simply aren't because they're getting it all for free. Generally that demographic does not live in Somalia.

I've gotten a few letters like this, and while my response may be brief, I wanted to print one just to give these people a voice and express the fact that the fansub argument doesn't really include people like you. Nobody's going to condemn you for watching fansubs.


Nice answer! Not only do I like what you said, I also agree with it!
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Wonkyman



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
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Location: Ottawa, baby!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:15 am Reply with quote
Those kittens cheered me up just fine.
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ManOfRust



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1935
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:21 am Reply with quote
Once I finished watching the really cool animated short film new banner a few times it was on to the column.

Answerman wrote:
Thanks to the internet, delusional people now have a haven where they can all get together and tell each other that they aren't delusional.

You know, there are probably some folks out there somewhere that are thinking this would apply to a bunch of adults sitting in front of their computers discussing the cartoons they like to watch. Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

Of course, actually thinking you used to be one of those cartoons is indeed pretty far out there. There's really just one thing I want to know about these people. Why are they always the cool anime characters? It's always Inuyasha or Kenshin or Sailor Moon. Where's the guy that used to be Jokken or Kimura-sensei in his past life?

Oh well. At least we got kitties.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:21 am Reply with quote
I loved the banner. But isn't your banner attacking you?

I think I recall hearing something about these Otakukin before, minus that particular term. I may have come across it while viewing Weekend Web on SomethingAwful. But really, we shouldn't be making fun of the mentally ill. But we should turn each and every one of them over to the police for a drug check and a pyschological evaluation to at least determine if they are a danger to society.

RDespair summed up my oppinions on cliches more eloquently and concise than I could have done:

RDespair wrote:

As for the rant, the reason why people call them cliche is because the elements are done poorly. If they're done well, people use phrases and words like "archetypes," "traditional elements," and the like. There's really nothing completely new - even unusual things like Kino's Journey & Spirited Away can be described as "Well, it's kind of like Gulliver's Travels/Alice in Wonderland." The key is to do something interesting with those familiar elements.


My additional oppinion: Generally, the problem reviewers have when they use the term 'cliche' isn't that its been done before, but that its doing little beyond copying whats been done before and repainting it and probably don't even do it well. If it was simply that something has been done before, then damn near everything would be a cliche.

Quote:
Of course, actually thinking you used to be one of those cartoons is indeed pretty far out there. There's really just one thing I want to know about these people. Why are they always the cool anime characters? It's always Inuyasha or Kenshin or Sailor Moon. Where's the guy that used to be Jokken or Kimura-sensei in his past life?


I was wondering were Satou from Welcome to the N.H.K. was. Or pretty much anyone else from that series.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:31 am Reply with quote
This otakukin issue reminds me so much of Welcome to the NHK! It's creepy Shocked and I just wonder what these people do in their spare time, or if they're students, do they even study? That girl looking for an apology was looking for a brick up the side of her head, that's what she was looking for. Answerman provided one of the best responses for that one, but I bet you Zac you're going to get more of them.
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Eruanna



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:35 am Reply with quote
Unfortunatly, I have actually heard of the 'Otherkin'. Some of them refer to themselves as "Furries" although I think they started adopting the term 'Otherkin' since the term 'Furries' has come to be associated with the sexual fetish that accompanies the entire lifestyle.
I have actually talked with some of these people. I had a long conversation on MSN once while some person explained to me about how they were actually a fox spirit trapped in the body of a human.

While the 'Otherkin' and 'Furries' communities creep me out, the "Otakukin' nonsence is far, far far worse. At least the 'Otherkin' people belive they are beings that actually exist. I dont care how much you adore an anime, it dosnt make you an anime character.

I would have to say that these flakes have stoped being funny. Now they just make me feel sick. Honestly.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:47 am Reply with quote
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
And..."Luna Starbright" is just mind boggling. First of all, I want to know if that's just what she calls herself, or if she legally changed it to that.
Secondly...did she just compare Zac to Hitler?!?!?
I'm sure it wasn't the first time that's happened Rolling Eyes And "Luna Starbright" sounds like a ripoff of some Harry Potter name as well. Of course, it could easily be a My Little Pony name as well... *is reminded of the My Little Pony Movie wherein the Little Ponies enlist the help of the FlutterPonies to beat back the encroaching evil of "The Smooze"*

On the whole otherkin/otakukin issue, I can't say I'm too surprised. The "otakukin" really does seem like an extension of the furry fandom, which I've seen rediculed many a time on one of the dozen websites that controls Internet culture, SomethingAwful. In fact, if anybody has any doubts about the horrors of the Internet, I'd recommend looking through the archives here at SA's "Weekend Web" section.
Zac wrote:
3. Your last question is barely coherent but I think I get what you're trying to say. Normally, anime based on video games kinda sucks. I've never heard anything more than mediocre notices, even from shows like Xenosaga or Ragnarok. Maybe the day will come when someone will make a totally kickass video game adaptation but that day hasn't really come yet.
Aw, come on, what about those awesome series like Wild Arms and Arc the Lad? Just kidding, but do you consider PC games such as AIR, Kanon, To Heart, Comic Party, Shingetsutan Tsukihime, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Shuffle!, etc. as "video games" whose anime adaptations normally suck? Granted, there are definitely some disappointments like W Wish and Yoake ~whatever~ Crescent Love. But, I'd say that most of those series have enough of a following that considers them "good," even if they don't have mass-market appeal.

I do like the release structure for Naruto; cheap, edited dub-only DVDs that parents can buy for their kids, and more substantial boxed sets that let the anime fans feel like they're biting off larger chunks of the series with one purchase. And from what I've seen, the Naruto uncut DVDs are not as full of fail as some other Viz releases.

The Rant: I was afraid of seeing yet another "ANN REVEIWERZ R BIAS AGENST CUTE ANIMU" tirade, but the ranter makes some good points. Cliche in itself isn't bad, and it's easy to get hooked on certain dramatic/action/romantic cliches that show up over and over again. But as others in the thread have said, if a series can't "bring something new to the table," then it doesn't rise above those cliches and can't really be rated too much above "Average," which in the pre-grade-inflation world was somewhere in the "C" range.
cardcaptormanda wrote:
Very few reviewers are going to be out to bash a show just for the sake of it. These "overly harsh statements" you mention are often the reviewers' genuine feelings towards whatever they are reviewing. If a reviewer glosses over or minimizes an anime's flaws, then he/she isn't a very good reviewer. Ranter, you yourself say that you are easy to please, so maybe you never have any strong negative feelings about the anime you see. Also, the fact that you could watch dozens of extremely similar harem series and not be tired of them indicates that you probably don't feel the same way about cliches as the average person. You're definitely in the minority, and you've got to recognize that most reviews aren't going to seem fair to you.

Personally, I like when the word is used. If I'm reading a review of what I already know is a harem series, and the world cliche is used, then that lets me know I most likely shouldn't waste my time watching a series that is probably pretty darn similar to other anime I have watched and didn't enjoy (although I rarely if ever base my decision to watch something on a single review). It kind of works the other way, too. If someone calls a shoujo "cliche," then, as a fan of shoujo, I might decide it's something I'll enjoy anyway. Everyone probably has a certain kind of anime they wouldn't mind seeing over and over.
I agree with these points -- it's one thing to be "easy to please" as a fan, but reviewers have to watch anime with Spike-Spiegel-esque eyes, where one eye sees the fun/enjoyment factor and the other sees the technical merits of the series. I'm a fairly big fan of harem anime ever since I made Love Hina the first non-Sailor-Moon series I ever bought, but I can't see myself liking every harem around. In the fandom overall, I'd say that fans who like every entry in a certain genre are in the minority.

And I do like comparisons to other series and the use of "cliche" in reviews. The comparisons give an anchor as to the overall quality I can expect, and the mentions of cliche are a quick tip-off to whether I'll find something comfortable/enjoyable or tedious/painful to watch. If I see "cliched harem" or "cliched shoujo romance," I'm likely to give something a chance, but if I see "cliched shounen action," I'll probably give it a miss. Even so, I'm sure there are those out there who do like "cliched shounen action" and thus are enticed by reviews of Law of Ueki or Air Gear DVDs.

Lastly, on the "seen it before" issue: After reading AoD's Review of Moeyo Ken Vol. 1, I'm convinced that what I call the "Elemental Gelade Effect" is real. That is, there are certain series whose enjoyment factor will decrease with more past anime experience. After I read ANN's Review of Vol. 1, I decided it wasn't really worth my time to watch. However, a friend of mine who hasn't seen much anime got the DVDs, and I watched them with him. I didn't hate it, but I couldn't help thinking at numerous points about things that felt ripped off or copied from other series. "Hmm, mysterious girl that gets "awakened" and may have incredible powers? Where have I seen this before, Outlaw Star, DearS, Chobits? A ragtag, mismatched team of adventurers? Paging Rune Soldier, paging Slayers..."
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Ichigo77



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: California
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:47 am Reply with quote
I've been wondering about the Naruto filler on Toonami too. I know the people at Toonami are aware of it and how people don't like it (although I don't watch the Naruto fansubs so I don't even know if this filler is as bad as everyone says it is). For the DVD's though I don't think the 13 episode box sets are a good idea it should just be the entire filler released in 1 box set. I could see Toonami either just skipping past the filler or maybe showing them on miguzi and a side story or something. Does the filler have anything important in it that we need to know for Naruto: Shippūden or is it like the Garlic Jr saga where the only thing that was carried over was Marron returning?
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linlinchan



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:14 am Reply with quote
Eruanna wrote:
Unfortunatly, I have actually heard of the 'Otherkin'. Some of them refer to themselves as "Furries" although I think they started adopting the term 'Otherkin' since the term 'Furries' has come to be associated with the sexual fetish that accompanies the entire lifestyle.


Otherkin and Furries aren't related, other than a certain amount of inevitable overlap. Believing oneself to be otherkin doesn't necessarily mean you are a furry, and vice versa.

Furry usually indicates a sexual or non-sexual attraction or identification with anthropomorphic animals. Not all otherkin believe themselves to have the souls of, be descended from or be reincarnations of animals. And many have no connection whatsoever to the anthropomorphic subculture.
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Iron Chef



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:24 am Reply with quote
These are just my two pennies on the whole "otherkin" phenomenon, and may include the whole of the Internet as well.

There's a subject that's been around in the academic world for a while now called "cross-culturalism." The gist is that either a culture has invaded another (via colonialism or flat-out conquering) or that members of a culture choose to identify with another because of information available to them.

As the Internet becomes more and more available, kids across the globe are finding that they relate better to cultures outside of their own. I'm a bit of a case in point, as I feel a stronger attachment to the notion/ideology of Japanese culture than I do the American way of life. (Having never spent an appreciable amount of time in Japan, I could be totally wrong in my thinking, but that's another matter.)

The otherkin and otakukin are probably just different subgroups of cross-culturalism. They find that fantasy/anime culture suits them more than what they've got around them and they dive headlong into it. I think it's a bit unfair to call them "delusional" until they've wholly embraced that culture for several years or done something stupid like break the law because they think they're Vash and can carry around a gun under their overcoat.

We all latch on to extremes in our life before finding our center. For cripe's sakes, they're kids. Let 'em do their own thing and try not to discourage such endeavors until they start endangering themselves or others.
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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:25 am Reply with quote
SoloButterfly wrote:

*cough* Anyway, I'm surprised that there are communities for the Otakukin. (hurray new vocabulary word!). I worry that they will now be attacked violently.


Don't give the /i/nsurgents at 7chan any ideas now.....
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:35 am Reply with quote
I would have phrased most of the rant differently, but if I could point out one paragraph with which I agree completely, it would be this one:

Quote:
What bothers me the most about what I too often (in my opinion) read in so many anime reviews is one simple thing. The word "cliche" and/or the phrase "something we've all seen before". I just can't stand to see that in practically every review I come across. I understand it can give an idea of what people who've seen these "cliches" before over and over what to expect but I find that more often what accompanies such description is low scores, heavily opinionated/subjective writing, and (overly) harsh statements about the show/volume.

As soon as the writer does this, his review becomes utterly useless to me, as he fails to provide any solid reasons for his low ratings other than the fact that it has been done before.
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8daze



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:57 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Luna Wishcatcher Starbright

And I'm Princess Jasmerelda Moonshine.

Yeah bloody right. Rolling Eyes


Sadly, I also already knew about otherkin/otakukin. One should be cautious when roaming LiveJournal. My favorite was a guy who couldn't decide whether he'd been Severus Snape or (I think it was) a Buffy character in his past life, so he kept typing out long arguments between the two about who was...really him? Yes, it was every bit as stupid as it sounds.
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