Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Haters Everywhere We Go
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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Most anime is available in America, there is no reason for an american to pirate Naruto, Bleach, or Gundam unless you want to make a claim that Americans don't pirate (OneManga was located in America) If a Swedish person wants to start an anime business I am sure they can scavenge enough money to get a license. ADV was started by a college dropout. |
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Asterisk-CGY
 Posts: 398 |
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And look at ADV now.
In the end, piracy maintains interest, and its that interest that eventually creates an industry. Cutting piracy cuts into that interest, and without it then you have no reason to create an industry for that interest. People pirate, and people buy. Those who pirate tend to buy more, but still pirate. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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My point is that Ledford actually did something, he started his own anime company, and to this day his still President of Sentai Filmworks releasing anime like High School of the Dead. All of this complaining is people who want to leech off other countries simply because they refuse to support the product. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Tell that to my favorites list... still waiting for Daughter of Twenty Faces to come out in the West. |
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Adamanto
Posts: 146 |
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I don't think you realize how dumb that sounds. Sweden is a small country. There's no "exclusive fansubbing scene" there, because everyone knows English, and there's no reason why someone should go through the trouble of making fansubs for a tiny number of people when it's just as legal and just as "morally right" to just have someone rip those English subtitles that are already out there. Does that mean you're making these available for people who could've watched legal streams, too? Well, sure, but yell at those people, not the people halfway across the world who are just watching the same things you had no problem with them watching before. Until there are worldwide streams, fansubs and rips are no less "morally wrong" now than they were before there were legal streams at all. Just because you can watch something legally and have no use for fansubs anymore doesn't mean that's the case for everybody. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Well, I fully disagree that "Most anime is available in America". That's just downright incorrect and we both know it. Even looking only at the past decade shows that what you said is incorrect. Now, your second paragraph is something that definitely should be done more often. A good number of fans take a look at an upstart company and immediately go for the negative response, saying how they won't last long and will make no splash in the industry. Well, who says that a new anime licensing company has to become a big company? As much as people want to poke fun at Anime Midstream for releasing a show like Raijin-Oh and how slow and antiquated they are doing it, the fact is that the company is still around and still relesing stuff after being around for 3 years. On the other hand, companies like CPM, Illumitoon, and Urban Vision haven't done anything in the last 5 years; hell, CPM is now gone, UV isn't looking any better, and Illumitoon's website has recently been suspended (and their phone number is no logner in service, too). I'd rather praise and commend a company like Anime Midstream for still living and doing stuff in this industry. When you think about it, most of the companies in the anime industry in North America (and probably likewise around the world), weren't simply created to make money; yeah, that's a focus, but these companies were founded by mostly-humble fans of anime. ADV/Section23, Media Blasters, Discotek, FUNimation, AnimEigo, CPM, etc. were founded by fans who wanted to bring over anime themselves. A lot of fans nowadays seem to either be afraid of doing this or simply don't want to do it. The last time FUNimation talked about Higurashi a couple of months back the rep literally told fans that if they wanted to see more Higurashi anime brought over then maybe they should do it themselves, complete with the justification that the license probably isn't as expensive as most people would think. Sure, it was blunt and maybe a little harsh, but more than likely it was not meant to be an insult... Fans seemed to take it that way, though (Do it ourselves? How rude!). Companies have indicated that licenses are much, much cheaper than they used to be in the past. If anything, now is probably a much better time to start up an anime licensing company than it was a few years back; maybe not the absolute best, but still... |
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Letthemeatraep
Posts: 161 |
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All I have to say with regards to fansubs is that as soon as I can buy Macross Frontier on DVD/Blu-Ray in English... among other shows... I will happily stop using them.
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loka
 Posts: 373 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
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Brian, that was an excellent response to the haughtier-than-thou writer of letter #3.
Oh, and Brian? What do you think it is that makes some of these anime fans so subservient to the R1 industry? They seem fully willing to only watch what the industry deems worthy of licensing (for streaming or physical distribution.) Do they have trouble making decisions for themselves? Insert Apple fanboi joke here. Do they have blind faith in the R1 industry because they were indoctrinated into some religion/cult as a child? Lobotomies, perhaps? What exactly is it that convinces them that all the "good stuff" makes it over the pond? |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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It takes all kinds to make up the world, and so its unlikely that a majority of the people that you are describing as being "subservient" to the R1 industry simply because they pick from among what is available for legit viewing or purchase are doing it for the same reason, so a question asking what is "the" reason we do it is starting out from a false assumption. Problem with rhetorical questions as an argument strategy is it is banking on the audience arriving at the same answer to the questions as you do. F'rinstance, some fans wish to support the industry that produces the works that they enjoy. Then the notion that they think the R1 industry licenses "all the good stuff" vanishes instantly: selecting from what the R1 industry happens to license is what allows them to support the industry. For bootlegs of unlicensed works, they break between those who won't watch them, and those who reckon no harm, no foul. SO there's two groups. There are also may be fans who respect the artists right to dictate who can and cannot copy their work and under what terms. Again, the notion that they think that the R1 industry licenses "all the good stuff" vanishes. Some of them may assume that its the economics of a niche industry that keeps unlicensed works unlicensed, so unless they have heard of the artists objecting to the licensed, will relax that for bootlegs of unlicensed, and especially older and likely unlicensable, works. So there's groups three and four. And then there are those who can't be bothered to chase down bootlegs, and choose from among what is licensed because its what is readily available for purchase. Adults employed full time, for instance. So they are not making any judgment at all whether the R1 industry is getting "all the good stuff" ~ they are picking something to watch on Hulu or shopping at Amazon, and what is there is what is there. And some of them just don't bother at all with bootlegs, while others turn to bootlegs of something they have heard good things about if its just not readily available through legit channels. So there's groups five and six. Three who won't watch bootlegs of unlicensed works, three who will, and the idea that the R1 industry "gets the good stuff" never enters into it. So if your group exists, of fans who really do think that the R1 industry is a filter that picks out the good stuff for them so they can ignore the crud, its only one of four or more groups who don't watch bootlegs of unlicensed works. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I am sorry if you find me subservient because I like dubs, I am sorry if you find me a joke because I feel that anime is a worthy entertainment to support, and not just download whatever I want while pretending that the 2,000 sales it got in Japan is enough to make a sequel. Is there good products that don't get licensed? Check my avatar, I would love to support a reasonably priced SRW boxset but I know that the chance it gets picked up is pratically non-existant. I honestly can't believe that someone would insult other people for wanting to support anime. |
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loka
Posts: 373 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
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I honestly cannot believe that either.
As stated, I was curious what makes them so subservient. I had not realized that my question asked for a singular reason. Poor wording on my part; sorry. You and Charred Knight are both assuming I'm insulting anyone who buys R1 product. That's ludicrous, and you're quite ludicrous yourselves for somehow pulling that out of my post. However, the people I ask about in my post do exist. Perhaps you haven't run into them yet. Often, they make themselves apparent more through tirades and grandstanding than by way of their buying habbits. |
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Jedi Master
 Posts: 400 |
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@loka: It's the R1 industry that's subservient to the fans. Why is the second season of Higurashi not getting licensed? It's because the R1 industry currently believes that not enough fans are willing to purchase it. Sure, Funimation is the one to break the bad news, but from what I understand no other company has stepped forward to license it.
@Lord Geo: The problem with starting a licensing company is the risk. The pro piracy attitude among fans scares investors and entrepreneurs away. Sure, licensing may be cheaper, but it still takes a significant investment in time , money, and work to start and run a successful company. @agila61: Nice breakdown. I happen to be an adult employed full time who only buys anime if it's dubbed into English. So add another strike against loka's "fans being subservient" comment since R1 companies won't get my money if they don't dub their products. @Answerman: I buy anime "sight unseen". Marketing, buzz, previews and reviews all combine to help consumers make that leap of faith. ANN is a part of that marketing machine. If consumers like me weren't around there'd be no point in buying ad space on this website since everyone would already know what they want to buy. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Did I "assume" that you are saying that anyone who primarily selects from among legit sources is being subservient? That is a direct implication of what you said! In asking why they are subservient, the question assumes that they are, which is silly as an across the board assumption. Subservient means to follow the directions of another, in a manner similar to a servant. I think that fits very few if any of the R1 customers who mostly or entirely restrict themselves to what is actually available on the market. For those who do it to support the industry and for those who do it to because its easier and they can't be bothered to chase down bootlegs, its more the industry that is in the servant role, as Jedi Master notes. And of course, Jedi Master includes a second dimension ~ those those who prefer dubs consume the content that has been licensed in some English speaking country, because that's how dubs get made, and the notion that a belief that the R1 industry "licenses the best stuff" once again vanishes from consideration. For those who do it out of respect for the rights of the creative team, the R1 industry doesn't really enter into it. For fansubs, its the bootlegging of the original RAW that decides the question. Indeed, if the script was available standalone in a form that could be consumed alongside a legit copy of the original Japanese, that'd be fine with most of that group. |
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CG-LOVER
 Posts: 355 Location: East Lansing, MI |
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I'd just like to make a comment on what someone said earlier about how watching fansubs are justified because the anime hasn't been licensed...yet. It's important to remember that there are many factors and issues for companies to work out before they can license a certain show, and that can often take a very long time. It's not that the companies don't want to release something as soon as possible, but sometimes it simply can't be done for varying reasons.
Unfortunately people these days don't have the patience that is required, and often assume after a while that just because it hasn't been licensed yet, it will somehow never be licensed, and that's simply not true. Now yes, I understand that some of you are talking about shows that may be a decade old...and for those cases I may understand the frustration, but if a show is only a few years old and people are already assuming that it's been forgotten by the R1 industry...well that's just simply ridiculous, and I feel that it in no way justifies piracy. Now sure, some people claim that they'll watch a show fansubbed and say that they'll buy it as soon as it's licensed, but realistically how many people do we really think are going to follow up on those claims? I mean just reading through these posts I noticed people stating that they would pay for a show when it's licensed if they liked it. What, do you people think that just because you didn't like a show when you watched it via fansubs, that you're somehow justified in not paying for it properly when it arrives in the R1 market? It's still piracy either way, plain and simple. It's time for us all to have some patience for a change and be willing to wait for the things we want. And then we need to prove to the R1 industry that there is a genuine interest for certain shows so they will bring them over. Using fansubs doesn't necessarily prove that interest, rather it tells the R1 industry how so many won't be paying for the product because they already took it for free. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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To the "Answerman":
I think it's bad to write about shows that you admit yourself you didn't watch based on what you think that they were like when you didn't see them. Even though I hate the name Funimation chose I'm still going to buy the show because I liked it, but I wish they could have chosen something better. As for the piracy posts, I don't care to read them all again this time around but I'll say I agree with the guy who said those who pirate tend to buy more media than those who do not. (There is even a study that agrees with that which came out a few years ago). Of course pirates are interested in media, many of them are young and don't have their own money, many of them are just becoming interested in something and the "freeness" of it is enticing (that was me) when they are still more interested in spending their money elsewhere. And sure, there may very well be some rich pirates out there who have tons of $ saved and they are millionaires but they are just not going to pay for media, but I bet that group is fairly small. Ultimately you are going to spend your money on what you like and care about more than what you couldn't care less about and fighting piracy is a heck of a lot more likely to produce animosity than any good feelings on the part of the one who is either sharing or downloading. "It's still piracy either way, plain and simple." Sure, but I don't really see anything wrong with piracy in the first place, so I don't see a problem. Aside from that, just from a practical perspective I don't think your position works. If people feel like they must pay for what they think is garbage just because they watched it and so they watch as little as possible they are more likely to be less interested and will likely also buy less anime in the long run. It does absolutely no one any good to make less anime fans by trying to force everyone to purchase everything they watch, whether they like it or not. You may think this sounds like a good moral position, but it's a terrible position from a practical side. The fact remains, IP is not like property, it is not scarce, the more who watch the more potential purchases you have. The more obscure you are the more screwed you are. Anime could hardly be called popular overall, so it hardly will benefit by trying to limit it's viewership. |
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