Forum - View topicNaruto Manga (for scanlation readers)
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Tenbyakugon
 Posts: 789 Location: Ohio, United States |
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This was probably the most important chapter since 599, when Tobi's identity was confirmed as Obito, if not the most important of the whole series. It's safe to say Sasuke's made the turnaround everyone's been hoping for, considering the strong love for his brother and family. I'm glad his character was able to come to such a resolution. He was descending into pure antagonism, but now I'd say with this chapter he's just as much of a protagonist as Naruto is. The war will unite Naruto and Sasuke along common lines and reignite their friendship. Somehow the Ten-Tails, Madara, and Obito will all be defeated and the story will end happily ever after. Predictable course of action Kishimoto, but I can't wait to read how it all actually plays out!
On a side note, seems Orochimaru's making a turnaround too. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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At least until Madara is about to be defeated/is defeated then Oro pulls some crazy scheme and becomes the main villain again keikaku doori. Also I laughed at Karin's reaction to Sasuke's apology to him trying to kill her. She's so crazy and cute. |
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drdr48
Posts: 360 |
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No way that will happen. That will be too stupid. Not to mention Kishi already said the war will be the last arc of the series. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I find an Orochimaru which is all happy go lucky to be someone's lackey pretty stupid. It has felt like to me since they brought Orochimaru back that they're playing with their options. They can end the whole series with the war as is, or continue with Orochimaru going "haha, I wasn't really wanting to be a good guy"
I mean seriously, he's a freaky psychopath. Who wants to live forever and learn every jutsu. I'm supposed to believe that just went away? Because he had to sit in Kabuto for a while? If they're just going to have him be a good guy after this, I'm calling it the most BS thing this comic has produced. There has not been enough character development with Orochimaru to produce this sort of come around in his personality for me, and if I were any of the "good guys" in this comic I wouldn't go near that snake. At all. He wants to fight along with them? He can go to the front lines and say hi to Madara. And Karin. Oh man. Is there a female reader out there who read that interaction between her and Sasuke in the last chapter and didn't think about horrible domestic abuse relationships? Because I sure did, and I feel BAD for Karin. I get it, she's an idiot. But to just accept the apology like that... it turned my stomach and made me hate Sasuke a bit more. This has been the first time Kishimoto's treatment of a female character has me seriously questioning his approach of them. I am not looking forward to Sakura's next interaction with Sasuke after this if this gives a hint of what's to come. And after all that, the chapter left me with the final thought that perhaps all Uzumaki's are loud mouthed idiots with bizarre obsessions on Uchihas. And that Karin might technically be Naruto's cousin. |
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Bonham
 Posts: 419 Location: NYC |
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That it's played up for laughs and people like TitanXL think her reaction is "cute" really makes the whole thing even worse. The moral compass of the series is just really, really messed up right now. The flashback was something of a nice break away from the idealized "Everyone Can Be Redeemed!" mantra the series insists upon. Shame the rest of the series couldn't have a bit more pragmatism. |
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Tenbyakugon
Posts: 789 Location: Ohio, United States |
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Funny that you denounce Sasuke and Karin's relationship and mention the redeeming aspect of the series together, because the latter is the reason they wrote in Karin's forgiving of Sasuke in the former. |
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Bonham
Posts: 419 Location: NYC |
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I'm not sure what contradiction (?) you're seeing in my post...? |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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Oh man....I took a break from Naruto for a while and I was thinking about getting back on it...
...but after hearing about this whole Sasuke/Karin thing...I just don't know if I can do it! That's just offensive on so many levels... |
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Tenbyakugon
Posts: 789 Location: Ohio, United States |
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I wasn't seeing one. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Hey now.. you're talking about a woman who got pleasure from killing/keeping innocent people prisoner and experimenting on them for Orochimaru and is a bit of a sadist considering she pretty much orgasms whenever Sasuke or other guys bite her to heal themselves (and she has bite marks all over her body) .. not to mention her split personality she shifts between from trying to seduce Sasuke to being prim and proper (see their first meeting when Sasuke tries to recruit her with Suigetsu) she's not exactly the most mentally stable girl to begin with. Even Sasuke found it a bit odd with that look on his face. Besides, even if it was some battered spouse/stockholm syndrome.. so what? Is that off limits to write about? Are people not allowed to write or portray socially negative aspects in fiction now? Say Karin is a woman who gets going back to an abusive lover... if that's her character, so be it. I guess it depends how much lenience you're willing to give characters... if Sasuke was temporarily insane when he stabbed through her to kill Danzo, well.. maybe she'll forgive him.. not unlike how Naruto goes crazy in Kyuubi mode sometimes and almost killed Jiraiya and later Sakura but they forgave him. Or to bring up other examples, Naruto forgave Nagato for killing Jiraiya and a lot of other people in his invasion of Konoha. Hinata forgave Neji for trying to kill her, etc. Redemption and forgiveness are a huge theme in the series. Looking back there's other instances of questionable moral compass .. Baki killing Hayate when the Sand was allied with the Sound and is never held accountable for it since the Leaf and Sand become allied soon after. I remember they showed Hayate's fiance Yugao who wanted revenge and to kill Baki but realized it would ruin the alliance between the villages so she couldn't bring herself to do it and pretty much ends up with PTSD and quits ANBU because she couldn't go on anymore. Not everything really gets a happy ending sometimes. She never really forgive him but she learned to accept it. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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What's off limits is this is one of the main characters here, and they're apparently going to have him play hero in a bit. In case you've forgotten this is a comic that targets pubescent boys in Japan, and that means Sasuke and Naruto are the "cool ones" little boys in Japan will want to emulate.
So here's one of the few woman in Sasuke's life, one he almost killed and brutally maimed, and pretty much threw away, but it's all ok because he said he's "Sorry", and that makes everything ok, cause now she's happily back with him. Not. Ok. This isn't some side character no one cares about in Naruto, this is one of the main characters. The behavior was somewhat acceptable when Sasuke was playing the villain, but the situation has changed now that he's supposed to be back on the "good side". And the fight where Sasuke almost killed Karin can't at all be compared to the Kyuubi/Sakura situation. Naruto would never willingly hurt Sakura, and the Kyuubi is another entity, not Naruto. Sasuke however was fully in control of his actions and decided that stabbing through Karin was the best way to achieve his goal, especially since he then considered her no longer "useful". With the latest chapter he is fully aware of what he did to Karin, and somehow thinks a simple sorry is good enough. That's not idealistic heroic male shonen-jump material there, that's just being an asshole who still doesn't give a damn about people. It's also exactly what abusive male boyfriends/husbands do after hurting a girl. If this is all the character development they're going to give Sasuke up to the end of the manga, I think it'd be best just to kill Sasuke at this point. A Sasuke with that attitude and those values being Naruto's best friend in the end of all this would just leave me with a really sick stomach. A sick stomach for any little boys who still think Sasuke is awesome, and a sick stomach for whatever poor fictional girl Sasuke would eventually find to continue on with his original goal of reviving the Uchiha clan with. |
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Bonham
Posts: 419 Location: NYC |
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I'm not sure how this supposedly offsets the flippant tone given to their reunion.
That's a really lazy and horrible strawman. In addition to what littlegreenwolf said, it's another example where actual consequences of characters' actions are cast aside for exaggerated ideals of redemption and forgiveness (whether for serious or humorous effect). Kishimoto isn't actually exploring issues of battered woman syndrome, so your fallacy makes even less sense. I'm not expecting Naruto to be The Wire or Breaking Bad. It's one thing if you just have the usual optimistic shonen mantra of "Never give up on your DREAMS" or "Friendship is the BEST." But it's another if you start intertwining these concepts in with issues of treason, genocide, torture, etc. It's not an issue of "punishing" bad characters, but simply recognizing the real-world consequences by invoking these ideas. In his quest to portray nearly every significant villain/antagonist as "redeemable" or "human," Kishimoto hasn't really dealt with those consequences. Again, to really address such issues thoroughly is likely outside the scope and interest of a shonen series, but Kishimoto should also be conscience of them by invoking those problematic themes. If you're going to be ambitious enough to invoke these issues, then you better be damn sure you're going to address their real-world implications. You don't just bring up something like war or racism and say "WAR IS BAD" or "RACISM IS BAD"—that has no nuance, no thought, and is absolutely useless. It's one thing to encourage people to not give up on reaching their dreams—it's unrealistic for everyone, but a good, positive message to deliver, especially to children and teenagers. But to sidestep the above issues (along with issues of abuse, as littlegreenwolf notes), all just to say "(just about) ANYONE CAN BE REDEEMED"? That's not only irresponsible, but bad writing. |
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vanfanel
 Posts: 1242 |
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I'm not disappointed in Karin for forgiving Sasuke, but I'm terribly disappointed in her for acting like a blushing teenager around him again. You can forgive someone to bring closure to an emotional wound...to normalize relations, as it were, but that doesn't necessarily mean things can go back to the way they were before.
I wanted to cheer when Sakura healed Karin after the Danzo hit, and Karin said she was done with Sasuke for good. I thought, "Finally! And who better to hear that than Sakura?" Now I just think, "Where's your self-respect?" BTW this week's chapter: spoiler[Minato lives!](kinda, for a while, I guess) |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I'm not really happy at all with how the manga has unraveled but...
ABOUT FREAKING TIME SAKURA GOT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FOR BEING A SANNIN DISCIPLE! &^$%@ YEAH! Best turn of events for the comic all freaking year. That's all I have to say. |
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drdr48
Posts: 360 |
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Yeah, Naruto should have known who Madara was. Madara should have been a legend in the Naruto world and everyone should have known who he was just like Voldemort in Harry Potter. Kishi just made SO MANY mistakes. Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtKPekDXwtc This guy knows what he's talking about... |
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