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NEWS: JManga Site Launches with Works Never Printed in U.S.


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ArthurFrDent



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 466
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Einhorn303... You realize these are manga publishers right?
What manga publisher in their right mind wouldn't use DRM protection?
They are in business to make money, and they MUST protect their copyrights. If they don't, courts can assume they have given up those rights... At least in the US.

Remember that Jmanga is a consortium of Japanese manga publishers... They aren't a 3rd party.
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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:40 pm Reply with quote
ArthurFrDent wrote:
Einhorn303... You realize these are manga publishers right?
What manga publisher in their right mind wouldn't use DRM protection?
They are in business to make money, and they MUST protect their copyrights. If they don't, courts can assume they have given up those rights... At least in the US.

Remember that Jmanga is a consortium of Japanese manga publishers... They aren't a 3rd party.


That's not how US copyright law works.
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Tamaria



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 1512
Location: De Achterhoek
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:21 am Reply with quote
Yeah, manga aren't lightbulbs or mechanical pencils...

Anyway, of course illegal scans are going to pop up everywhere if you remove the DRM, but that isn't exactly something new. Heck, people go as far as buying English releases and scanning those and once it's on the net, it's practically impossible to remove. The trick is not to force people to do things your way, but to convince them your way is better/easier/cheaper for them. Pretty much what Crunchyroll is doing.
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overlordrae



Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:32 am Reply with quote
ArthurFrDent wrote:

They are in business to make money, and they MUST protect their copyrights. If they don't, courts can assume they have given up those rights... At least in the US.

This is a copyright myth. It's true for trademarks, but not for copyright.

All DRM does is annoy and impede legitimate customers. DRM is really only a minor inconvenience to maybe one or two pirates....because everyone else will be downloading the DRM-free file.
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cyberbeing



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:33 pm Reply with quote
Tamaria wrote:
Anyway, of course illegal scans are going to pop up everywhere if you remove the have DRM along with prices people are unwilling to pay, but that isn't exactly something new. Heck, people may go as far as buying English JManga.com releases and scanning ripping those and once it's on the net, it's practically impossible to remove. The trick is not to force people to do things your way, but to convince them your way is better/easier/cheaper for them. Pretty much what Crunchyroll is doing.

Fixed that for you. Wink

For some manga at least, they will be better (higher quality) and easier (no scanning, translating, editing, cleaning, typesetting required) than other options. Their main challenge will be finding the right price. I can't say I'm surprised they are starting at prices identical to print volumes though. It's much easier to justify lowering prices at later date than it is raising them. In the meantime, someone who really wants a local digital copy of something they bought, could rip a 200 page volume in ~5 minutes.
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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Tamaria wrote:
Yeah, manga aren't lightbulbs or mechanical pencils...

Anyway, of course illegal scans are going to pop up everywhere if you remove the DRM, but that isn't exactly something new. Heck, people go as far as buying English releases and scanning those and once it's on the net, it's practically impossible to remove. The trick is not to force people to do things your way, but to convince them your way is better/easier/cheaper for them. Pretty much what Crunchyroll is doing.


Illegal scans have existed for these series long before JManga existed, due to scanlations. Making the subequent English official release DRMed, and a hassle for consumers to use, will do nothing to stop scanlations from existing.

cyberbeing wrote:
Tamaria wrote:
Anyway, of course illegal scans are going to pop up everywhere if you remove the have DRM along with prices people are unwilling to pay, but that isn't exactly something new. Heck, people may go as far as buying English JManga.com releases and scanning ripping those and once it's on the net, it's practically impossible to remove. The trick is not to force people to do things your way, but to convince them your way is better/easier/cheaper for them. Pretty much what Crunchyroll is doing.

Fixed that for you. Wink

For some manga at least, they will be better (higher quality) and easier (no scanning, translating, editing, cleaning, typesetting required) than other options. Their main challenge will be finding the right price. I can't say I'm surprised they are starting at prices identical to print volumes though. It's much easier to justify lowering prices at later date than it is raising them. In the meantime, someone who really wants a local digital copy of something they bought, could rip a 200 page volume in ~5 minutes.


How, by doing screencaps? Does the viewer probibit screencapping? I've seen DRMed manga viewers that do.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:22 pm Reply with quote
overlordrae wrote:
ArthurFrDent wrote:

They are in business to make money, and they MUST protect their copyrights. If they don't, courts can assume they have given up those rights... At least in the US.
This is a copyright myth. It's true for trademarks, but not for copyright.
Our copyright law once worked like that, until we shifted over to the tighter European based copyright convention. Since that was only a generation ago, its not surprising if an obsolete explanation is floating around the internets.

Quote:
All DRM does is annoy and impede legitimate customers. DRM is really only a minor inconvenience to maybe one or two pirates....because everyone else will be downloading the DRM-free file.
But not everyone is a pirate. There is always a spectrum. To DRM versus not to DRM is decision made on the margins of sales lost and sale gained. If all publishers were convinced of the not to DRM side, then DRM would not be catered to in the main ebook formats.

The real potential for a site like JManga, though, is to act as an international equivalent of the manga serials in Japan. Download to own would be the international equivalent of the tankoban.

That's where the rental approach would work ~ something like two week's access to a chapter for 50 points ~ or one week, or 25 points, but something in that general range.

If you account for the fact that not all readers are following every series in a serial, 20 chapters for $10 is not all that far off what Japanese manga serial buyers can get.

And given the way that the site presently works, it only would take one or two publishers doing that to get it started, because with 1,000 pts credit per month and about 900 points to "buy" a chapter, there's 100 points per month just itching to be spent, and the publishers that try a rental at 25 or 50 points will pick up a lot more casual readers.
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Tamaria



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 1512
Location: De Achterhoek
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

Illegal scans have existed for these series long before JManga existed, due to scanlations. Making the subequent English official release DRMed, and a hassle for consumers to use, will do nothing to stop scanlations from existing.


That's what I said. Scans have existed for ages. Half of the manga available from JManga is already available on the web as illegal scans. So what exactly are they trying to protect?

Quote:
I can't say I'm surprised they are starting at prices identical to print volumes though. It's much easier to justify lowering prices at later date than it is raising them.


That's true.

Personally, I would prefer a different business model. An all you can read buffet for a monthly fee, but with a print on demand service for those who'd love to have a physical copy. But that may be to avant-garde for most Japanese publishers...

Ah well, I think it will be wiser to judge this JManga thing after six months or so. I'm not even supposed to be checking the site out anyway, what with living in the Netherlands and all..
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Tamaria wrote:
Personally, I would prefer a different business model. An all you can read buffet for a monthly fee, but with a print on demand service for those who'd love to have a physical copy. But that may be to avant-garde for most Japanese publishers...
There's also the legal issue. Rights in Japanese manga publishing tend to be unbundled, so digital rights and print publication rights are different things. And given that the print publication contracts that authors are accustomed to are suited to print runs, getting rights agreements set up to allow international print on demand of works localized for online digital access may take a while.
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chichiriNoDa



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 531
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:47 am Reply with quote
Wow seriously I was ecstatic that JManga have Adekan in their list. I just wish it gets license in actual manga form. I've been dying to get my hands on this series.

As for the site, I tried sampling it but it loads pretty slow. Or was it just my connection. Hopefully Adekan find its way on the shelves anytime soon!
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