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Poll: What do you think of Moe?


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Mirrinus



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 230
Location: La Thiene Plateau
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Eh...to play it safe, I now operate under the assumption that every single anime series can be called moe. Seriously. I'm sure someone, somewhere in the world can find some way for some anime to be moe to them. If someone (like me most of the time) is unable to see what is moe about a show, then to them personally it is not moe, but to play it safe I'll still assume all is moe. Actually, I'm sure if I tried really hard, I can find something moe about pretty much any anime series in existance.

Then again, I have weird reasons for really liking some anime. Like episode titles. That was actually one of the main reasons that drew me to watch Last Exile, and I loved it. Few things get me giddier than finding patterns in episode titles of a series and explaining how each one relates to the plot. I had lots of fun deciphering all the chess references in Last Exile. Same goes for the classical music subgenres of Kanon 2006. What's the point of all this, you ask? I guess it just goes to show that people see different things to like about each series, and it really is in the eye of the beholder. Far be it from me to dictate what elements you're allowed or not allowed to see in a show.
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Furudanuki



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1874
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Mephistophilus wrote:
I personally voted the "I like moe, but blending with loli makes it disturbing" option, for the reasons posted above and for the reason why I like moe in the first place. When it gets blended with loli, I think it spoils my interpretation of moe in the first place; that is, the somewhat parental desire to protect and/or support that character due to their "moe" status. When loli is mixed in, there is obviously some sort of breach of that barrier that patriarchal (or matriarchal) protection puts up, and the situation suddenly goes from "Aww" to "Urm."

I voted the same way, and for much the same reasons. If I catagorize a character as being moe they will have in some form or fashion made me want to comfort and or protect them, be it physically or emotionally. And the character need not be "weak" or dependent" - be it in anime or real life, someone can be very strong or powerful and still be vulnerable, and thus I can find them to be very moe.

For example, in Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha both Fate and Nanoha are powerful magic-users. Nanoha has her family and friends to support her, and while she may suffer setbacks and have some sad moments she is essentially a pretty happy and well adjusted kid. So although Nanoha is cute, kind, and a nice character overall, I don't give her a high moe rating. Fate, on the other hand, is despised and punished by the one she loves and whose acceptance she craves. No matter what she does it is never enough, and on top of that she is forced to fight against someone who wants to understand and help her. I spent most of the first season wanting to pull her off of the screen, hug her tightly and let the poor girl cry herself out. Fate therefore gets a very high moe rating from me.

Given the nature of what I consider moe, it should be fairly obvious that a lot of the characters that hit those buttons will tend to be young. Mostly girls, since they are more frequently shown in those circumstances, but there have been boys who fell into the category as well - Shouta from Aishiteruze Baby for example. There are even some animals in anime that I found to be moe, like Maya the Iriomote cat in Azumanga Daioh. So I prefer to draw a very large and clear dividing line between "moe" and "turn on", and cringe whenever I see the terms are used interchangeably. For me, moe does not equate with sexy. I'm not sexually attracted to children - or animals Shocked - and as the father of two young girls I don't find the whole loli-pedo thing to be much of a laughing matter. However I also have to say that, based on many comments I've seen here and elsewhere, there appear to be a lot of people who really don't have a very good understanding of what a "loli" is in the first place.

Now while I strongly believe that moe and sexy are two entirely different concepts and should never be used interchangeably, I also think that a character can be certainly be both. Sasaki (Azumanga Daioh), Mai (Kanon), and Nerine (Shuffle!) would all fit into this group. Each one has characteristics and/or a life story that I would consider moe, while I also find all of them to be extremely attractive females (though much too young for me Sad ) And not a "loli" in the bunch...
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Iwatch2muchanime



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1291
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:16 pm Reply with quote
For my rebel jackass genes took over when I voted, I voted "Moe? I like Loli" but where the "Moe is just another anime style" choice?
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ZaWarudo



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:21 pm Reply with quote
I'll watch anything if it has children in it.
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10円



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 605
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:28 pm Reply with quote
I enjoy moe, just like I enjoy cute little kittens and cute little puppies and all the other things that are cute and fragile in this world. But, lolicon is a disgusting and grossly perverted representation of that theme. I don't care how it's rationalized lolicon just is not right and you can feel it in your gut the moment you first lay eyes on it. So, why haven't I been on my lolicon hate train lately? Well, there are several reasons, but first and foremost is that I realized as bad as animated lolicion is, it's still not nearly as bad as the live action content still sold in Japan to this very day. Animated lolicon is sick, but it's at least possible that nobody will be harmed if the viewers can all keep their thoughts from becoming actions. In the case of the live-action content, the exploitation has already occurred long before anybody even buys the first copy.
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ZaWarudo



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:31 pm Reply with quote
I don't see the attraction to REAL little children. They're generally smelly and often annoying.

Anything by Naoshi Onizuka or Mizui Kaou though... yum.
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1276
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:32 pm Reply with quote
10円 wrote:
I enjoy moe, just like I enjoy cute little kittens and cute little puppies and all the other things that are cute and fragile in this world. But, lolicon is a disgusting and grossly perverted representation of that theme. I don't care how it's rationalized lolicon just is not right and you can feel it in your gut the moment you first lay eyes on it. So, why haven't I been on my lolicon hate train lately? Well, there are several reasons, but first and foremost is that I realized as bad as animated lolicion is, it's still not nearly as bad as the live action content still sold in Japan to this very day. Animated lolicon is sick, but it's at least possible that nobody will be harmed if the viewers can all keep their thoughts from becoming actions. In the case of the live-action content, the exploitation has already occurred long before anybody even buys the first copy.


Do clarify. Are you talking about H-lolicon or normal lolicon?
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kokuryu



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 915
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:37 pm Reply with quote
I like Moe. I like Shoutacon. I like everything. Doesnt matter to me. This one needed to have a multi-select box on it so you could pick multiple entries. I was tempted to give one of the other categories a boost, but decided to go with the straight I love Moe.

I guess what people mis-understand about Moe is what it really is. Moe is all about exploiting the stereotyping of obtruse personalities and fetishes, many times to the extreme edge of reality, and beyond.

Even Moe fans have lost the understanding of this definition and dub many "cute girl" type anime as Moe.

But in reality, the Moe has two parts to it - its not just the girls - the guys in there as well are also Moe.
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ZaWarudo



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:42 pm Reply with quote
It's not as though you have to be a complete pedophile to like lolicon. The lolis rarely act like real children as much as sexually precocious young adults. Many people like it because it's taboo, or they just like delicious flat chests.
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Mephistophilus



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Fresno, CA, United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Splitter wrote:
10円 wrote:
I enjoy moe, just like I enjoy cute little kittens and cute little puppies and all the other things that are cute and fragile in this world. But, lolicon is a disgusting and grossly perverted representation of that theme. I don't care how it's rationalized lolicon just is not right and you can feel it in your gut the moment you first lay eyes on it. So, why haven't I been on my lolicon hate train lately? Well, there are several reasons, but first and foremost is that I realized as bad as animated lolicion is, it's still not nearly as bad as the live action content still sold in Japan to this very day. Animated lolicon is sick, but it's at least possible that nobody will be harmed if the viewers can all keep their thoughts from becoming actions. In the case of the live-action content, the exploitation has already occurred long before anybody even buys the first copy.


Do clarify. Are you talking about H-lolicon or normal lolicon?


It doesn't necessarily matter. Exploitation does not necessarily mean sex or nudity, and those things can come from "normal lolicon" (which technically doesn't exist, as all lolicon is sexualized to some degree) due to the nature of the subject matter. There is no truly "normal" lolicon, and what you are referring to is probably the moe counterpart. Lolicon almost always means sex and nudity, and by definition requires exploitation in its subject matter. Thus, twisted imaginations often run wild upon viewing, and it can lead to very bad things, whether explicit sex is involved or not.
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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:54 pm Reply with quote
I think that lolicon is less objectifying than moe. I mean, I watch moe shows, but it eventually begins to grate...moe is all about objectifying characters to stereotypical, non-human, flat cut-outs. A lot of lolicon stuff at least still portrays the girls as people, with realistic feelings and emotions, not just "ZOMG UGUUUU MOE MOE." Like Koi Kaze or h-manga like Two Friends is lolicon, but it's not cloyingly moe and false.
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chicogrande



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 190
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:57 pm Reply with quote
Deltakiral wrote:

You'd think they were the same seeing as how every time I see Dateline NBC To Catch a predator it seems like every pervert they grab has some sort of hentai or otherwise noted anime porn. And it's going to be scary day when the major media realize what lolicon is and it's going to be a crazy day. You think Jack Thompson mad about Grand Theft Auto? I can't even imagine what it will be like when that happens.


I'm sure those dumbasses had porn involving real persons too. But tell me, what anime title, legally available for distribution in the US, is Dateline NBC supposedly going to find that will paint anime fans as alleged closet pedos?

Everyone, what anime titles in the US are lolicon? I say there are none, thankfully. I don't think there is anything to worry about. (Naive?)


Last edited by chicogrande on Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ZaWarudo



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:58 pm Reply with quote
einhorn303 wrote:
I think that lolicon is less objectifying than moe. I mean, I watch moe shows, but it eventually begins to grate...moe is all about objectifying characters to stereotypical, non-human, flat cut-outs. A lot of lolicon stuff at least still portrays the girls as people, with realistic feelings and emotions, not just "ZOMG UGUUUU MOE MOE." Like Koi Kaze or h-manga like Two Friends is lolicon, but it's not cloyingly moe and false.


That's actually a good point. Although I didn't enjoy the rape in Two Friends. But there are definitely loli mangas which depict more realistic characters than shows like Lucky Star or Ichigo Mashimaro.
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Viga_of_stars



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1240
Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:01 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Wheee, I just can't resist stirring up trouble sometimes Smile

. Good examples of titles I've enjoyed are Azumanga Daioh, Yotsuba&! and of course, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (which isn't really a moe show, but it does have moe-esque elements). I'm also a fan of Jubei: Secret of the lovely Eyepatch., which again isn't generally considered a moe show, but the moe elements are unquestionably there.


-t


really AzuDai is moe? and Jubei is moe? well i know jubei not a lot but in what ways is it moe?

I really love the moe style. i like to draw moe characters and i love moe looking manga. Can pita ten and kamichama karin be moe? It is to me in terms of look.

I also want to look into moe anime soon. kanon is a moe series right?
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Mephistophilus



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Fresno, CA, United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:01 pm Reply with quote
einhorn303 wrote:
I think that lolicon is less objectifying than moe. I mean, I watch moe shows, but it eventually begins to grate...moe is all about objectifying characters to stereotypical, non-human, flat cut-outs. A lot of lolicon stuff at least still portrays the girls as people, with realistic feelings and emotions, not just "ZOMG UGUUUU MOE MOE." Like Koi Kaze or h-manga like Two Friends is lolicon, but it's not cloyingly moe and false.


So you're saying that anime and manga that completely sexualize underage, and sometimes prepubescent, girls and show them in compromising sexual positions are somehow better than moe because the "moe-ifying" of characters is worse than graphic sex with children? That's completely ridiculous. While the stereotyping of characters can be bad, and moe characters CAN be flat, lolicon is always, without question, exploitative. Moe does not define characters as flat, and stereotyping can be to a lesser degree. Lolicon, however, necessitates some sort of exploitation and often depicts graphic sex and at times rape of minors and even prepubescent children. Totally different.
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