Forum - View topicSatoshi Kon has scarred me for life....
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Jedi General
 Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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To start off, I thought I'd say that I'm not looking for sympathy here. I just thought I'd share my reaction to the film while it's still very fresh in my mind. If this topic descends into flaming (which honestly isn't my intention), then I humbly ask the moderators in advance to lock this, should it come to that.
Anyway, I just watched Perfect Blue for the first and last time on Saturday night after trading in my Avatar: The Last Airbender DVDs for the film at Bookmans. It is definitely the most disturbing anime I've ever seen. Heck, it's the most disturbing movie I've seen PERIOD. My expectations for this film going on were very high, having seen and loved Kon's masterpiece Millennium Actress. I knew that Perfect Blue was the complete opposite end of the spectrum compared to Millennium Actress in terms of genre and all that, but still I figured that I'd like it nevertheless. I like a good thriller, and I'd heard great things about this film being a classic when it comes to psychological thrillers. In the end, I felt like I had been conned into watching this film. MINOR SPOILERS BELOW Looking back on it, I should have stopped watching during the "rape" scene, so I'll admit that I'm at fault for not showing restraint when restraint was due, but that was my mistake and I'm now reaping the consequences of that.  Stopping that early would have spared me the all emotional scarring I've since endured. I felt so dirty while watching it. I'd never watch hentai even if someone paid me, but that scene seemed pretty darn close to me. Despite all that, I continued to watch as the film had captured my interest up to that point. I hoped that the sexual content was a one time thing, or perhaps at least there would be a somewhat of a "purpose" behind it, a la Ninja Scroll. Much to my dismay, it was not a one time thing, and the overall "purpose" behind it wasn't nearly as gripping as it was in Ninja Scroll (it feels strange to say that about sexual content of all things). More sexual content soon made it's way in front of my eyes and I began to became disgusted and my interest in the film slowly started to wane. As with the "rape" scene, I should have stopped during the photo shoot. Sadly, I did not. I continued to trudge on through, hoping something would happen that would redeem the film. Then there was the murder sequence with little flashed of the nude photo shoot (Kon could have at least shown a little restraint there). My disgust continued to escalate, but regretfully I continued to watch despite that and the fact that my interest level was dropping. Then there was the attempted rape scene by the stalker. That nearly pushed me over the edge, but I noticed that the film was nearly over. By then the film was beyond saving and I'd become completely distracted, not paying much heed to the film's resolution (which was rather disappointing, now that I think about it). The plot had since become convoluted amongst all of the sexual images from the film that were stuck in my head, and so I couldn't concentrate on the film anymore. At least the masterpiece Elfen Lied (which had been the most disturbing anime I'd ever seen) managed to redeem itself from its abundance of gratuitous nudity and the bits of mature content. It had the beautiful tale of romance (I love romance) and also the charm of many of its characters. Perfect Blue had nothing of the sort. Once the credits rolled, I was so glad that the torturous experience was over. I had a hard time going to sleep that night as a result, even after attempting to blot out the images from the movie by watching My-Hime volume 3 (while it was a good volume, it didn't do the trick). I've since rated Perfect Blue "worst ever."
END SPOILERS If anyone could enlighten me as to why this film is deemed a great one, I would appreciate it. Like I said, I was distracted by the content, but thinking about it now, the storyline overall was mediocre at best to me. To me, it seemed like a bad Hitchcock knock-off, just with with an anime spin on things. I also felt that the final resolution of the film was rather lame. I thought: "You've gotta be kidding me. That's it?" I was expecting much more than what was revealed in the end. In all, Perfect Blue is surely the most disappointing and disturbing experience I've ever endured when it comes to anime, and unfortunately for me that makes this film unforgettable. I doubt I'll be so disturbed by an anime ever again. That being said, I'm still going to give the rest of Kon's work a shot (every director is entitled to at least one bad movie, right?), though I'll be particularly wary of Paprika, since it is rated R in the US. |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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I wasn't particularly pleased with this one either when I saw it several years ago on a fansubbed VHS tape.
As for why people like it so much... that's pretty simple. Many fans enjoy anime with starkly mature themes like this one. If you can stomach the vicious sexuality, it does present an interesting view of celebrity mindset... the desperate grab for stardom, falling out of the limelight, dealing with overzealous fans (to put it lightly), and so on. I remember being both surprised and satisfied with the ending when I saw it... but now, I wonder if it was a little too 'easy'. Perhaps the movie would've left a better impression on me if spoiler[ the events around where more a result of her own psychosis as opposed to being caused by mimaniac and that mentor lady whose name I forget now.] Oh yeah... for Kon's other works- watch Tokyo Godfathers!!!! It's a very heartwarming and upbeat flim... well, as updeat as a movie about homeless people gets, anyway.  One of my personal favorite anime.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Yeah....... I think I'll be staying away from that one.
I mean, I'm not going to judge the movie on how good it is (or isn't) since I've never seen it, and who knows, disturbances aside, I might actually like it. It's just that, being a member of the mormon church and all, I usually try and avoid the more offensive side of anime, even if I've seen my fair share of R-ratted material before. I mean, the most disturbing or offensive movie I've ever seen is Ninja Scroll, and be lucky I even tried that one in the first place. Before that it was Akira, and even then I was just barely lucky enough to see it (loved the heck out of it, as did I another R-rated nudity fest, Ghost in the Shell, which I was also lucky enough to see!  ).
I too am trying to see more of Satoshi Kon's work, like finishing up the admitted masterpiece Paranoia Agent (stoped about half-way through because it was too weird for me at the time, but now I love weird anime like that! ), renting Millennium Actress, from my local Blockbuster, and who knows? Maybe I'll even give his R-rated new one Paprika a chance when it comes out on DVD. But after what you just said about how unfortunately disturbing Perfect Blue is, I'm just going to have to pass on that one. Too bad really. I don't understand why some of these artists just HAVE to have so much darned offensive content in their stuff anyways.
Last edited by BrothersElric on Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ramadahl
Posts: 325 Location: MK, UK |
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Well, it's supposed to be disturbing...
Seriously though, while I can understand being disturbed by some of the scenes and the rape-scene-that-isn't-a-rape-scene in particular (an acquaintance of mine pretty much had a breakdown over it), I thought it was probably the best and most mature use of sexual imagery I've seen - unlike Elfen Lied or Ninja Scroll I might add, which seemed to me to have no purpose other than fanservice. Perfect Blue has no gratuitous nudity. Considering the scene in a bit more detail... First off, consider things from Mimas point of view - while she naturally dislikes doing it and feels disgusted by it, she also knows that it's not real (as in it's not a real rape... need to be careful about the use of the word real with this film...) and that if she ever wants to progress beyond being an idol this is just a trial she has to go through. It's something that if she perseveres through it she can learn from it and grow a little. Next look at the director and her manager - the director is totally unperturbed by it, while in counterpoint to him Mimas manager is very disturbed by it. To her, Mima isn't so much a person as the embodiment of a dream that the manager couldn't attain - seeing Mima in such a scene is like seeing that dream itself be destroyed in front of her, which is what really pushes her over the edge. A couple of other scenes you mentioned - first the nude photo shoot. I took the view here that this is an adult film, and so it shouldn't have to pull any punches. Things like that do happen, after all. The purpose to it is as support for the "rape" scene in that Mima is progressing through trials in order to achieve her goal, and destroying her managers dream of her as a perfect idol along the way. The attempted rape by the creepy stalker dude - well, what did you expect? He was a creepy stalker dude. That scene was there to bring closure to the other way in which she was seen, as an object, a possession. Perfect Blue seems to be about Mima finding the path to her goal - it's a coming-of-age story that's as harsh as they come. Obstacles she has to overcome are in the form of the things she must do to get recognition as an actress, and the false visions of her that she must contend with - herself as a perfect idol, herself as a mindless figurine. it's a story about how she can grow to be more than she is, and the end where we see the "perfect blue sky" shows that she succeeds. Edit: - one thing I forgot to ask... how old are you? |
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Anthony P
Posts: 227 Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US |
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Reading through your personal plot synopsis there, you seem to have some inhibitions that you're very fixated on. In all candor, it sounds like you didn't even try to comprehend the film's plot and themes. You yourself even said it:
If that sort of content isn't your thing, then whatever. But I don't think you can really judge the film's merits if you didn't even fully comprehend it yourself.
Ah, it's nice to hear someone praising Tokyo Godfathers for a change. It seems like most Kon fans hate that film. I thought it showed Kon's versatility, in that he can pull off lighter, more straightforward drama/comedy well, in addition to his usual fare. |
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Neverwhere
 Posts: 351 Location: socal |
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Do not be afraid of Paprika.
It is beautiful and surreal and yes, slightly creepy...and utterly, utterly exquisite. Honestly. 
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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While I agree Perfect Blue has its disturbing moments I found them to be more true to life then say a series like Elfen Lied. I mean such acts really do happen. This title was supposed to be for adults and not some kiddy story. I agree with Ramadahl,
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Belle Starlia
 Posts: 27 |
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Paprika is very.. odd... to say the least. I still don't know what to think of it honestly.. it's kinda a mix between Paranoia Agent and Perfect Blue, I think. :/ But it's kinda hard to describe... And yeah, it's rated R for a reason. So be wary. It is very exotic, too, like the above poster said. It certainly isn't half as dark as Perfect Blue is, though. It's just weird in a lot of cases. Weird in a very stretched way. Sorry, Paprika is just hard to explain without spoiling it.
My favorite film of his is Tokyo Godfathers though, that was supremely put together, and it manages to do what many 24 episode animes fail to do in their alloted time: develop the characters, and he does it in less than two in half hours. All his films manage to do that, in fact. He's a good director and everything, but you just have to keep in mind what your tastes are. If you can't stand the dark sexuality, stay away from Perfect Blue. Paprika.. Mm... it kinda has a spoiler[ rape-type scene in it... not like Perfect Blue, but a scene did give me the vibes of being very much like one, despite it being.. in somewhat different circumstances.. eh.. you'll have to watch (or not) for yourself. ] If nothing else, watch Tokyo Godfathers, it's worth it. I love it dearly. It's lighthearted, too.  Total comedy all the way through. If only he'd make another like that.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Perfect Blue was actually my gateway into the world of Satoshi Kon. I had heard alot about the film before it made its Theatrical Priemere in the US and really latched on to the character style and dark imagery. When I finally got around to seeing it in the theaters it really met all my expectations and I was so pleased with it that I even sat through it a second time in the theater. Yes it has a rape scene but the whole movie really is meant to be like a juggernaut on your senses as that really ties into the whole plot of the movie really well. Having the violence, the psychodrama and strange imagery couldn't have been complete without a sexual scene that yes was rape but was NOT overly graphic like it was something that was supposed to be enjoyed by hentai fans. It is an art film and I go by the standard that if it's appropriate for live-action then it's appropriate for animation.
Regarding other Satoshi Kon films, none of them have impressed me nearly as much as Perfect Blue did, being that I consider Perfect Blue the type of film Satoshi Kon is known for (because it was my first one), his other films have really fallen short for me. I expect though that Paprika is going to break this expectation as I've only heard great things about it. |
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hagakure|returns
Posts: 407 |
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Agreed. People that enjoy the film really understand what the content and the theme of Perfect Blue. Plus the ending of Perfect Blue really leave a lasting impression on you and makes you wonder what could have been. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Hmm... I'm the epitome of a Kon fan, so I had better weigh in, here.
First, Kon himself is a very versatile anime creator, with many ways of telling a story. Yes, he likes surrealism, but he sometimes goes for a straightforward story presentation, as if to break the pace deliberately (and maybe, to make the audience wonder whether something surrealistic is actually going on, and they just haven't spotted it). Kon has a definite sense of humour, and isn't afraid to leaven the weighty material with a dose of slapstick. Except... he often turns the slapstick humour around, and uses it to underscore a serious point (anyone who has seen Paprika will know what I'm talking about -- the elevator scene). In many ways, Kon is a very avant-garde filmmaker who nevertheless has managed to stay unpretentiously connected to the roots of popular culture. I've often thought of him as the anime equivalent of David Lynch -- although that analogy obviously fails upon closer examination, it does provide some insights. Now, turning to the works themselves... Perfect Blue didn't please our OP, Jedi General. It's not my place to disdain his tastes. If he doesn't like it, that's his privilege. But it seems to me (as well as to others) that his reasons for disliking it were mere prudish revulsion at the sexual imagery -- as if his willingness to understand the story broke down when he was confronted with the explicit content. Ah well, be that as it may -- Perfect Blue has many fans, and some among Kon's fans regard it as his strongest work. Not me, though. I like Perfect Blue, but it has always seemed to me to be the most... well... ordinary of his films. It strikes me that it could easily be filmed as a live-action movie, something that isn't quite as true for his other films (except perhaps Tokyo Godfathers and Millennium Actress). In other words, it's something that might have come out of any other filmmaker... it doesn't quite carry the indelible stamp of Kon's personality that his other work does. That Tokyo Godfathers isn't as popular among Kon fans as the rest of his oeuvre is a postulate that Anthony P will have to reconsider. In fact, I have never encountered a sincere Kon fan who didn't consider it to be a fine film. Personally, I think it's wonderful -- and while it does show his capacity for lighthearted fun, it also has a deep and serious theme of the humanity inherent in us all, even society's discards. For me, I believe the quintessential Kon film has to be Sennen Joyuu / Millennium Actress. With its gradually increasing tension and gradual mixing of imagined events with reality and recollection, it is a masterpiece of the medium. Because it is so slow to build to its climax, it is understandable that regular anime fans sometimes pan it as being boring... but this is far from true. I've always thought of it as a grandiose "cousin" to another (non-Kon) anime that I love dearly, namely Omoide Poroporo / Only Yesterday. With an emphasis on memory as an emotional experience, these two films both embody an essential Japanese feeling of natsukashii. As for Kon's other works... well, I've seen them all, and I could wax eloquent about the rough but promising style of Magnetic Rose, or about how Paranoia Agent was similar to David Lynch's Twin Peaks (in that it mixed surrealism into a traditional story genre -- a soap opera for Lynch, a police procedural for Kon). But I will restrict myself to closing with a few words about Paprika. I saw Paprika at its premiere here in Copenhagen, along with a friend who is a fledgling anime fan, and another friend who is a determined ippanjin. I was very much impressed with the film, though I thought that it was less coherent in its pacing than Kon's other films. My friends ran the gamut of expected reactions -- the anime fan in spe being delighted with it, and the "commoner" considering it "too weird for words". No surprises. Overall, it seemed to me to be a film that should have been longer. The story pacing was fine up until the final 20-30 minutes, when events began to move too fast. To me, it seemed as if Kon was rushing to present the story climax, instead of building up to it as he usually does. I consider this a definite flaw in the film. But having said that, of course, I must also say that it is a wonderrful film, and I was entertained throughout. - abunai |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Kudos to abunai. Haven't seen his good long review posts for a while.
No offense, but have you had any unhappy experience of sexuality? You seem unable to tolerate rape and murder, regardless of their relevance to the plot (think rape-themed hentai; is there any of them better than Perfect Blue?). To me, all the heaviness of the film was blew away when spoiler[shop windows reflected the ghostly "alter ego" of Mima was in fact her agent, an overweight middle aged woman, panting and sweating while running through the street in Mima's idol dress.] I burst out laughing immediately. That's why I love Kon's films: adding comedic relives at the right moment. Another comedy gold is in Millennium Actress, when spoiler[the old maid, instead of the legendary actress, opened the door for the highly anticipating director.] Oh, whoever knows where the bold text came from gets a cookie.
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unhealthyman
 Posts: 306 |
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To Jedi General:
To be honest, I think you have some weird hangups about all kinds of stuff. The rape was integral to the story, and not even a rape anyway. The fact that the 'rape' scene was so affecting, compared to the casual gratuitous shite often found in anime, is a testament to the effectiveness of Satoshi Kons style. It's not the fault of the film that you couldn't handle the sex scenes which meant you couldn't follow the film 'The plot had since become convoluted amongst all of the sexual images from the film that were stuck in my head, and so I couldn't concentrate on the film anymore.' Boohoo? It is disturbing. It's a psychological thriller. You aren't supposed to come out of the cinema smiling. You mention the 'masterpiece' Elfen Lied, which was every bit as violent and disturbing as this. You also mention Ninja Scroll as an example of an anime where the 'sex scenes' were redeemed by them being part of the story. Excuse me, but WHAT? In Ninja Scroll spoiler[the whole sex poison bullshit and the woman being tied up and fingered and the snake inside the naked woman were all worked into the film in a lame attempt to add some sex to the violence.] That was a truly retarded comparison. Anyway, shame you didn't like it. I thought it was great. Maybe you aren't suited to watching films with serious topics. It seems pretty hypocritical to be fine with Elfen Lied and not Perfect Blue. Anyyway [/flame] [EDIT: Please try not to quote really long posts. Thanks. -TK] |
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Jedi General
Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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Thanks for your responses everyone. Helped shed some light on the overall concept of the film. Not that it will cause me to like it any more than I already stated, but at least I have any idea as to why people enjoy the movie.
I'll see it. Like I said, I'm still going to see the rest of Kon's work. I'll still be wary after Perfect Blue, but I'm not going to boycott him. Millennium Actress was wonderful and I'm sure many if not all of the rest of his films minus Perfect Blue could be the same.
I know that, I was just way too disturbing for me. Anyway, I'm 20. Yes, I should be able to handle the content, and I can to a certain degree. This was just too much.
That's basically it. The content distracted me too much, so in essence I couldn't comprehend the film as a whole. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to like this film, but it was wasn't my thing. Yes, I watched Elfen Lied, but in my mind that was entirely different, since it wasn't a "real" as Perfect Blue.
None taken. No, I haven't had an unhappy experience. I can tolerate murder just fine, it's just the sexuality presented in Perfect Blue that I have problems with. I was raised in a Christian household, which should be explanatory enough.
I guess I'll take your word for it.
unhealthyman: I don't appreciate being flamed. Besides, I never said the sex in Ninja Scroll redeemed it. In all, I didn't really like the film all that much. I gave it as an example because just didn't find it as disturbing as Perfect Blue because of the "poison BS" as you called it. For some reason I did actually like that concept. As for Elfen Lied, I didn't think it was nearly as disturbing as Perfect Blue, which was why I mentioned it. |
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bonbonsrus
 Posts: 1537 Location: Michigan, USA |
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Jedi, if you liked Millennium Actress a lot, like I did, I haven't found another of Kon's works to be like it. I realy liked this anime.
I too did not like Perfect Blue. I can't say it was for the sex reasons you stated, it simply falls into a genre I don't like. I didn't like it about the same I didn't like Paranoia Agent. Simply not my cup of tea. (I like coffee.) I did Like Tokyo Godfathers more, but not to greatness. I will see Paprika as well when it comes out but I dont anticipate loving it. The Ninja Scroll reference seems odd however, maybe you are not recalling it correctly? That scene disturbed ME. I have nothing against sex scenes in anime, however rape scenes in a non-hentai disturb me, and that one left a particularly bad taste in my mouth. I don't really recall that feeling from Perfect Blue however as I think it fit into the anime better. |
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