Forum - View topic

Hey, Answerman! [2007-05-04]

I just wanted to say thanks to those who answered my moe question, I really appreciated it. All of your guys' views were very interesting and I guess I have come to the conclusion that moe is very subjective and is different things to different people. That being said, with regards to my original question, I guess one can have moe feelings towards a male character, although it seems mostly predominant towards cute female characters. Though I still don't think I'm into the whole moe thing, but we'll see.

True Orihime's weaker, but she's a dynamic character who strives to improve herself, even if she's ditzy. I think what's "better" about her is that she has her own goals and aspirations.

Belldandy & Keiichi SHARE many goals and aspirations including a desire to be together, I don't see why that should make EITHER of them a bad character. (I can see how they might not be ENTERTAINING characters to some, but I don't think they are "bad" characters)

No, don't leave! You just got here! Get to know us and our personality defects better!

(Also, we don't criticize people on this board just because they aren't well-versed in obscure anime. You clearly are beyond the "All I like is [insert latest Shonen Jump title here]" point of fandom, so I'm sure I can speak for others when I say your input is always welcome here.)

You missed the first usage of the term "manga cow", which, as LydiaDianne just pointed out, referred to consuming the entire work (or several volumes at a sitting), rather than "nibbling" as you do. Nibbling is nothing to feel guilty over.

We don't use chatspeak much on this board, so you fit right in, btw, FYI, kthxbye.

You're male, aren't you? So you have a fiancee, not a fiance. Sorry, but that's been bugging me lately.

Introducing the handy-dandy spoiler tag. (Hit the spoiler button when posting to label the selected text a spoiler that you have to point to in order to see what's underneath.)

We need more people like that here. Seriously.

psycho101: I agree, and I have stated numerous times that I UNDERSTAND it, I simply don't LIKE or at all AGREE with it. And I get further BOTHERED by it because by and large the people who make that claim are people who have only seen part of the anime (usually the OVAs) and maybe read a few chapters of the manga and decided it's "not for them". And that's fine. I have no issue with people whose tastes do not mirror my own. But many people who dislike it make the doormat claim with only partial knowledge of the series and implications about its fans, and that bugs me. It'd be like me saying I don't like Cowboy Bebop because the only girl is a hooker showing how it objectifies women. I make this claim based on the episode I saw where Faye acts as an escort and the myriad images I see of her dressed slutty, so obviously that's who she is and that's all the series is. Nevermind that Edward is female (which a good portion wouldn't guess from a simple look at her design and name) and that that's not really what Faye's character is. Nope, I saw her acting the hooker, and obviously the show has nothing more to offer me than hot-pants wearing whores. I kinda like Jet, but he's not enough to save the sexist nightmare of a show.

Belldandy is basically the same character as Kasumi Tendo (and even voiced by the same seiyuu) except she has added "goddess" powers. I also know several women who LIKE "Emma", and Belldandy also bears striking similarities to the lead character in THAT series, except she's not restricted by the "class" structure that series uses (and again, she has "goddess" powers). Is Emma a "doormat" character?

Putting the fact it's an anime, about a goddess, aside.. You can't DENY this. Belldandy is a character who has essentially based her life on existing for Keiichi. She loves him dearly, and would essentially do anything for him and overlook almost anything he did.

No, don't leave! You just got here! Get to know us and our personality defects better!

I said from the very BEGINNING that I didn't want to debate the character, but since people seem intent on pushing an opinion that I vehemently disagree with I will continue to do so. I also freely admit to being an excessive fan of the series.

Actually, I CAN totally deny that. I have even TRIED to reference points that PROVE that your first point is COMPLETELY FALSE. The OVAs are a very small portion of the story cut and made anime to sell. They are VERY well made, and I like them very much but they are no more representative of the entirety of the characters and the story than the X movie compared to the manga. Also like X, the TV series does a better job of fleshing out the characters and story but is STILL not comprehensive.

As you have already noted, you have NOT seen all the anime, let alone read all the manga (I assume) so why do you feel the need to tell me what the character is or is not? Do I know a girl like Belldandy in her entirety (even if you remove the goddess powers), no. Nor do I know a Rei Ayanami or an Akane Tendo or a Lum nor an Orihime Inoue. Anime & manga are STORIES, and some of them are heavier than others on an aspect of "fantasy", so what? I have been continuing this argument because I really like the character, what's your excuse?

I have no issues with this, and I'm not making this post to make you seem stupid either. So don't think that. However, being an fan in excess means that - and I feel this is a valid argument - that you love this series so much you dislike people questioning it, and it's characters.

My points, first, second, or last, are not entirely false. When debating it is important to keep in mind no one point of view is not entirely false. It may not be true, but it does have even a tiny grain of truth to it.

You, yourself, stated that her passive nature was an aspect of her personality. Enough said. This aspect, and the degree that is shown, proves that Belldandy is an unrealistic character. Yes, there may be OTHER aspects to her personality, but what we are saying is that her passive nature is very, very unrealistic. [Can you tell I'm trying to stress this point?]

If you are not looking to argue your opinions with someone, you should probably not voice them. There will always be someone who is willing to challenge your point of view.

That, and the fact you told us we were wrong, without admitting [To my knowledge] that we have some small grain of truth to our view. Who are you to tell us we are wrong?

That, and I do know someone who shares Inoue's personality. She loves strange food mixtures, she has her moments where she's completely off in space, and she's just as buxom. I'm due to marry her in July, as a matter of fact. -Cackle.-

-Head tilt.- Where might I find thus perfect/pointless quotes thread? My curiosity has been peaked.

Well, since we're tossing mental illnesses up.. I suffer from megalomania dominantly. xD OCD, you know, kind of run of the mill things.

You are obviously selectively reading my points, I have CONSISTENTLY stated that I am ok with other opinions about Belldandy and I UNDERSTAND other views on her. I disagree strongly with the "doormat" characterization and have from the beginning.

That's ridiculous. Not all views are equal, and stating that an opinion of a character based only on a surface examination is as valid as a viewpoint taken from a full examination is like saying the diagnosis of a waiter is equal to that of a psychiatrist. Your opinion is valid for YOU in the sense that you choose to not check out more of the series because of it. It does not mean you have a correct understanding of the character.

Why does a concession that her nature is "passive" equate to "unrealistic". Inoue has a "passive" nature, yet you seem to feel SHE is "realisitc". I can name 20 characters that I think have a "passive" nature. Really "passive" and "aggressive" are the two basic natures and everyone is just going to fall on one end or the other. Do I think Belldandy's position on the spectrum is "unrealistic"? No, I don't. You or others might think it would be UNHEALTHY for a woman to be as passive as Belldandy APPEARS (to you) but that doesn't make it unrealistic. As I've stated, she has her own aspirations and goals, she just happens to SHARE many of them with her S.O. If I want to go eat pizza for dinner and my wife also wants to eat dinner, is she a "doormat" if she agrees "let's go eat pizza"?

Oh, I'm more than willing to debate my view, I'm just not going to stop in this particular discussion. And if you're going to debate, then I'd like to see something besides "I think..." I've pointed out numerous examples of areas in OMG! that support my side, and I've referenced numerous examples outside of OMG! to compare. So far, I've read "well, I think otherwise so that's how it is". So please, share your experience with me.

I am someone who has read/watched the material in its entirety (so far, since the manga is ongoing and the anime MIGHT get another season), who are you? If you've read a book cover to cover and I've read 2 out of 50 chapters, who do you think has a stronger understanding of the book?

Have you read any of the unreleased chapters of the manga? I can share the negative aspects of Inoue's dedication to Ichigo but I don't want to spoil the series, I'd say in the "worst case" she's at least as "submissive" as Belldandy if not more so. I consider both character's "dedication" to the lead to be par for the course "ideal" of a story. Most shonen series have such a girl for the guy and most shojo series have an equivalent guy for the girl (assuming they have ANY romantic plotline). I think parts of ANY fictional "hero" or "heroine" are usually "idealized". Heck, most ANY Shonen JUMP series is basically "Rocky" in a different setting. (ie. "underdog" character pushes himself beyond what anyone expects thru tenacity and willpower impressing all friends and rivals alike) Heck, Negima is great because it takes that cliche and MIXES it with the great "a girl for all tastes" concept, to let the reader root for a 'Rocky' and then decompress by picking a favorite "Miss Universe" candidate.

Ningensei wrote:

I just wanted to say thanks to those who answered my moe question, I really appreciated it. All of your guys' views were very interesting and I guess I have come to the conclusion that moe is very subjective and is different things to different people. That being said, with regards to my original question, I guess one can have moe feelings towards a male character, although it seems mostly predominant towards cute female characters. Though I still don't think I'm into the whole moe thing, but we'll see.

We may not be into Moe but we may not have the choice if the title/storyline is one that we would/will enjoy.

But, we can certainly TRY to vote with our wallets.