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Hey, Answerman! [2007-05-04]

I did not say all views are equal, nor did I say that they are equally as valid. What I did say that all opinions do have even the tiniest grain of truth to them, and that cannot be overlooked. It's not complete true, or even close. But it's never completely false, unless it is indeed obviously so. Like saying "I think sand tastes like hamburgers."

How does 'passive' equate to unrealistic? I, myself, am a passive person unless I am debating.

Belldandy would be better described as 'unhealthy' rather than unrealistic.

Who is more understanding in this case? Out of the two of us? Yes, you are. But what I aimed to do is point out other aspects that you might not have thought of, because you are so absorbed in the series. This was not the point, however. What you did do is throw our opinion out the window [Called it wrong.] Because you have the superior knowledge, which isn't right. We are not wrong, but neither are you.

To my knowledge, that's not the point of debate. It's to come to a common understanding of the subject matter, and each person's respective opinions. Not to say "You're wrong and I'm right."

Since you said any general piece of fiction for example, let's take Sango and Miroku. I hate Inu-Yasha to death, but this is a good example of a pair who is not entirely passive towards one another. Sure, yeah, they're not exactly the leads yet at the same time Sango is more than willing to try to take Miroku away from his lecherous ways. Miroku, on the other hand, does do his best to become closer with Sango.

they are a very realistic couple in my mind. This is something that is not shared with Keiichi and Belldandy. HOWEVER, this may just be my own personal taste. I dislike the genre OMG falls under because I like realistic love stories. Not such idealized fiction as OMG.

Long story short I'll admit, and accept my short-comings in this debate and step down so that, if they like, someone more knowledgeable than I can properly argue this side of the debate.

Ama no Kagaseo wrote:

I did not say all views are equal, nor did I say that they are equally as valid. What I did say that all opinions do have even the tiniest grain of truth to them, and that cannot be overlooked. It's not complete true, or even close. But it's never completely false, unless it is indeed obviously so. Like saying "I think sand tastes like hamburgers."

]And I repeat, until you can PROVE otherwise, your view is FALSE, if you choose to return feel free to offer ANY proof that your view is true

Quote:

How does 'passive' equate to unrealistic? I, myself, am a passive person unless I am debating.

You said, and I quote "You, yourself, stated that her passive nature was an aspect of her personality. Enough said. This aspect, and the degree that is shown, proves that Belldandy is an unrealistic character." It was YOUR opinion that her passivity makes her unrealistic, not mine

Quote:

Belldandy would be better described as 'unhealthy' rather than unrealistic.

]And I say again, if you are going to make such a claim, please offer PROOF, or an EXAMPLE. I'm tired of arguing with an ephemeral "concept" that is just your gut feeling with absolutely no support besides how you feel. Maybe I feel arguing a point that you have no support for or profess little interest in as an unhealthy OCD

Steroid wrote:

la_contessa wrote: I don't understand how you can make this argument but still think reading the manga for free in a bookstore (manga rental services and libraries are completely different--the volumes are paid for, and the reader has certain costs to pay as well, such as longer waits for new volumes or membership fees) isn't economically hurting anyone. You understand that costs have already been put into the manga--artistic talent and time, licensing fees, translation time, binding time, etc. You understand that if you take someone's time, you should pay for it. I am at a loss to understand your "you only should pay for these costs if you take it home" argument, though. I will try to help. Everything except the paper and binding time and such are fixed costs. The artistic time, translation, etc., are the same for a million-run manga or a ten-thousand-run one. So if all I'm doing is reading it, then I'm just taking from the fixed-cost side of the ledger. If I actually take the manga home and take ownership of it, then I've affected the variable-cost side. It seems to me that if all I want to do is read, then I should be able to do so at a fixed price. If I want to own, then I should have to pay a variable price. Quote: A reader benefits from manga through READING, not through owning. Assuming that the benefit is what one should pay for, the people sitting on the floor in Borders SHOULD pay for it, because they are reading (i.e. getting the benefit). A) That's rather up to Borders, isn't it? They're the owners of the manga. If allowing manga cows boosts their sales or keeps their customers happy, it's not the manga printers' business. B) If it's the reading that's the point of benefit, shouldn't we have to pay every time we read our manga?

Ok, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in quite a while. Even without getting into the economics of it, basic common sense should be enough to show that you're wrong. But I'll do my best.

I was reading this over, and I don't really think Belldandy is quite as passive as people think she is. For a good "1950s housewife" passive, check out Akari from To Heart. I think Belldandy, being a goddess and due to her personality, is naturally calm and relaxed. Therefore, she doesn't fly off the handle every 3 seconds like someone like Naru from Love Hina or Akane from Ranma. Personally, I think those types of characters get annoying quickly, so I like having a Belldandy around from time to time. Even an Akari.

I have to wonder at the state of otakudom these days. As members of a rapidly growing minority group, many of my fellow anime fans have given in to the persecution complex, and have taken to feeling as if everyone is out to get them. These complaints run the gamut of scale and importance.

I was miffed myself when there was no anime on April Fools (replaced with a badly "fansubbed" block of Perfect Hair Forever). However, the reactions like those I read on the ANN message boards were just insane. People were asking extremely asinine questions like, "Why is it that they cut out the anime, but left Futurama intact?!" Simple answer: because the anime, like April 1st, started at 12:00 am. Someone responded to that logic saying, "No, they both started before midnight." Simple answer: 12:00 am Eastern Standard Time. I always imagined that my fellow otaku would be able to understand the simple concepts of time zones and when a day officially starts. However, logic was further ignored, with people being convinced that they were specifically targeted by Adult Swim (who, if one pays attention, makes fun of everyone who watches Adult Swim).

On a much smaller scale (and getting off the Adult Swim topic), I got an earful from a young girl the other day in the manga section of my public library. Apparently, some titles had recently been removed. I took a look, and, indeed, some titles were missing. These included Planet ES, Inu-Yasha, and Ai Yori Aoshi. The manga section is located on the same block of shelves as the Young Adult (i.e. 13 – 17 year old) literature. The titles that had been removed contain nudity (and in the case of the last two, underage nudity). When I pointed this out to the girl, she ignored me, and insisted that anime fans themselves were being specifically targeted. My response was simple, "Why, then, didn't they remove all the manga?" She said that it was only a matter of time before all anime and manga were banned in the United States. I grabbed Karekano and got out of there.

By a strange twist of fate, I saw this girl again today at the mall looking at the meager manga selection at Suncoast. Again she went on about how the manga section was too small. I told her that the nearby Borders had a huge manga selection, but she insisted that she shouldn't have to go to another store to buy manga.

This is a problem that only serves to hurt otakudom as a whole. When people start feeling as if everyone is out to get them, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. By opening their mouths (or posting online) without asking if there is a logical explanation and just assuming that they are a target, they only serve to reinforce a negative perception of anime fans. This makes people more apt to make fun of anime fans. We are in a very precarious place right now. With the popularity of anime growing, we are in the position to become a major part of the mainstream. However, if we appear to be an ungrateful group who play the victim at the drop of a hat, we only make it that much easier for people to insult us. Maybe people have forgotten that there was a time when we did not enjoy anime on TV every night, or when the library did not even have a manga section, or when mainstream bookstores didn't have an eighth of their floor space in the front of the store devoted to anime and manga (that's about the size of the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section at the Borders I mentioned).

We are not being persecuted, we are on the rise, but only as long as we don't give people an excuse to dislike us.