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NEWS: Shota Community, Other LiveJournal Accounts Suspended


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Jabberwock



Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Currently attending the University of Florida
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:28 am Reply with quote
Abarenbo Shogun wrote:

No, he's accusing me of being a Holocoust Denier.

He's not accusing you of being a denier at all. I don't even know where you get that from, he didn't say anything like that. You seem to be trying to discredit his comments against you by making false accusations concerning what he said. It isn't going to fly, your comments were/are (since you still stand by them) ridiculous, and you should realize it. The fact that you are sticking by what you said speaks volumes to how blinded you are by this situation as to cloud your common sense.

Sakurachan1 wrote:

There's a ton of stuff on the net, I don't have a taste for, but I stay away from it, and as far as I am concerned I don't care what people want to blog about, as long as it's not criminal in nature. I can't put my finger on the criminal aspects of Goth Loli, or Shota themes, but that's just me and my common sense thing.

Ya, because writing about sex with little boys is completely innocent!
Sakurachan1 wrote:


The bottom line is, people have the right to blog about what they want, period.


No they don't. They have a right to write about anything within the terms set by the website/company running the website. And, just so ya know, that company has the right to change their terms whenever they want. GET OVER IT.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:57 am Reply with quote
Horitsuba wrote:
Also, how many sources have you guys read? You make us seem as if we just found out that they deleted this stuff (when infact, it has been going on for days. It just reached it's peak last night), and then we went, "OMG! CREATE FANDOM_COUNTS!!11 ITLL SOLVE EVEYTING!" D:

And, where in the world, do you see screaming and official theme songs? I've been following several journals the whole day and I don't see any of that. Kindly link?


Dude, question not my sources. Know that I like many other people here have ljs, and since we're connected with anime we're all seeing the the fandom cries for blood first hand. Since I got off work I've been sitting here with nothing better to do than play PrincessMaker2, and look at all the chaos going on with the majority of the livejournal fangirls. Gotta love summer when there's no school, and no new LOST on Wednesday nights anymore. Maybe that's why the fandom of livejournal is so riled up. The no school part I mean, though I suppose the lack of LOST could play a small role. It is for me.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I added myself to that community_counts. Viva la resistance! Cool

But some people are taking this crap WAY too seriously; apparently they think the intarweb will explode!
http://news.livejournal.com/98960.html?thread=46182288#t46182288

And as to the pirate song, heh. It probably just hasn't evolved to your friend's page yet. As far as I can tell, this community was the start of it:
http://community.livejournal.com/innocence_jihad/

Just keep searching for the whole "never shall we die" stuff with your lovely little browser search feature in there *it's tricky since there's like... 50 new posts every half hour*. There's lots of icons too popping up with it. Pirates.. ... ughhh. And if you want me to link to each particular freaking post using it because you can't find it... ask me tomorrow.

Oh, and they went as far as to put it on wiki, and as EVERYONE KNOWS, if it's on wiki, it's official.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livejournal#Account_deletion_.28Strikethrough_.2707.29.

And my source has mainly just been this chick:
http://catrinella.livejournal.com/151812.html#cutid1
she has lots of nice links when I want to look in on the chaos some more, plus she isn't exactly screaming bloody murder.


Last edited by littlegreenwolf on Thu May 31, 2007 1:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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chrisb
Subscriber



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 617
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:03 am Reply with quote
I'm pretty mad that Perverted Justice (a very respectable site that goes after pedo sites) has, since months ago, alerted Livejournal about the illegal communities going on and Livejournal for some reason caved in to one group who has no actual ties to law enforcement but threatened economic protests. Seems LJ was only concerned with deleting perverts when their money was in danger.

One user has stated her journal which discussed her recovery from abuse was listed as an illegal site and she is now distraught while one man's journal (he was on America's Most Wanted for violentally hurting his baby in THAT way) is still up. Apparently Livejournal is not looking at actual entries.

Quote:
Perverted Justice (which is far more reliable than Warriors for Innocence and actually works with the police) had this to say about the big lj "purge"


Today LiveJournal/SixApart deleted a ton of LJ's that violated their "terms of service." We went after LiveJournal/SixApart months ago, with a very specific list of pedophile blogs and communities. Not only were the staff at LiveJournal/SixApart beyond condescending and rude in their replies, they defended the advocacy of pedophilia and pedophile communities as being acceptable under their Terms of Service, something we contested in our original Writeup about them.

So today, LJ decides to finally do something about the pedophile communities that had sprung up on their service. However, rather than listening to us months ago, they decided to just wipe out whole fields of communities whether they were related to those who advocate child rape or not. We're not quite sure who is running the show over at LJ, but until they state without condition that actual pedophile activists and those promoting child rape are disallowed from their service, we will continue to list them as an aggressive Corporate Sex Offender.

Apparently LiveJournal can't tell the difference between what a pedophile community is and a Harry Potter fan-fiction community despite being told months ago which is what.


And these resistance groups are not making the innocently accused look all that good, I'm sure a lot of people are looking at everyone who's upset as idiots now.

Don't know what angers me more livejournals actions or this post by an idiotic member of innocence_jihad:
Quote:
So I don't know what the hell to do with this strange announcement about a deleted journal of an "out" pedophile which I found here on a site about pedophilia. (found via fandom_wank) while compiling links for this. I mean he is probably harmless. I wonder how long he'll last. And if he knows his kink and his wife is cool with it it is none of my damn business. But still. O_o

120+ links from all over about strikethough2007 inlcuding multiple sites to back up your lj, alternative blog sites, lists of people leaving lj and arriving at GJ. All in one place.
He's probably harmless? WHAT THE HELL? The innocent really need to distance themselves from these freaks.
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Madame



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:56 am Reply with quote
I'm of two minds about the whole thing... On one hand, I kind of want to tell everyone to step back from the mess and realize that it's only the internet. In all likelihood, the communities devoted to discussing the book Lolita, or Lolita fashion will be un-deleted. It's even quite possible that many shota and loli fans will get their journals back in time.

(I don't believe for a minute that people with "Death Note" in their interests are being purposely targeted, especially since at least two communities dedicated to the show are still online.)

I am a little worried about this recent trend of companies cracking down on loli and shota materials, however. I will proudly admit that I'm somewhat of a fan of both loli and shota, and I'm simply not happy about this turn of events. While I'm all for shoving child molesters in jail, I want to still be able to walk in a bookstore and pick up a copy of Negima. I can not stress enough the difference between an actual child molester, and a stupid teen who likes their anime characters to look "underage." I have no illusions about loli and shota being a good thing, but the fact remains that I enjoy them, and want to be able to enjoy them in my LiveJournal if I so wish.

**Apologies if the last paragraph is unintelligible: it's 1am where I live, and I really should be sound asleep.**
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tarrin4ever



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:24 am Reply with quote
Ah, finally we get some info from the masters of teh intarweb!

http://news.livejournal.com/99159.html?thread=47709527#t47709527

Fears alleviated. Shows over, nothing to see.
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Kyaa the Catlord



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 300
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:27 am Reply with quote
He should have used the "Livejournal: We know drama!" userpic. Razz

Honestly, this was completely blown out of proportion. Hell, Wikipedia's LiveJournal article notes it. I think I'll fix that.
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Steroid



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 329
Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:57 am Reply with quote
pat_payne wrote:
Steroid wrote:

But there's an option of consistency. Just as we loli fans say, "Damn the anime fandom, we have a right to read loli," so should the anime fandom turn around and say, "Damn the country, we have a right to our manga and anime."


No. If someone told me that I could have my fill of anime and manga if only I would see my country destroyed, I'd tell him to keep it. My country comes first. Something trivial like anime comes second.

Fair enough, thought I consider that monstrous. But what of those who don't share that view? If you have no obligation to the loli fan to fight for his right to read loli, what obligation has he to cover up loli to protect your right to read non-loli manga?

Zac wrote:

These people have every right to do what they're doing and more power to 'em. But I am seeing a lot of Nazi arguments and a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over this - especially on the pages of the founders of this whole fandom_counts thing. That's what gets me - when they lay claim to being persecuted victims.

It's just Livejournal. Being upset is one thing. Making holocaust comparisons and acting like your rights are being violated is another. That's it.

Perhaps, but what happens if the same thing happens on Facebook, and MySpace, etc., until the only place left to go is Lolijournal, a hundred-dollar company that has to beg for donations and run ads constantly? And what further happens if, after every major private company declares pedophila verboten, the government decides to step in and codify it in law? Are they a persecuted minority then? And who will then step up to defend a much smaller group fighting against a much more powerful oppressor?

Zac wrote:
Stuff like this makes me think they get off way, way more on the thought of being "persecuted" and engaging in this melodramatic nonsense than they actually enjoy their underage slash fiction or whatever.

Part of the appeal (not all) of material like this is knowing that it angers the establishment. Why is that appeal no good?

tarrin4ever wrote:
Ah, finally we get some info from the masters of teh intarweb!

http://news.livejournal.com/99159.html?thread=47709527#t47709527

Fears alleviated. Shows over, nothing to see.

The drama is over, the battle remains. Nothing's over until the "Rape all the children" group gets treated the same as the "let's enjoy knitting" group.
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Horitsuba



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:09 am Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
Horitsuba wrote:
Also, how many sources have you guys read? You make us seem as if we just found out that they deleted this stuff (when infact, it has been going on for days. It just reached it's peak last night), and then we went, "OMG! CREATE FANDOM_COUNTS!!11 ITLL SOLVE EVEYTING!" D:

And, where in the world, do you see screaming and official theme songs? I've been following several journals the whole day and I don't see any of that. Kindly link?


Dude, question not my sources. Know that I like many other people here have ljs, and since we're connected with anime we're all seeing the the fandom cries for blood first hand. Since I got off work I've been sitting here with nothing better to do than play PrincessMaker2, and look at all the chaos going on with the majority of the livejournal fangirls. Gotta love summer when there's no school, and no new LOST on Wednesday nights anymore. Maybe that's why the fandom of livejournal is so riled up. The no school part I mean, though I suppose the lack of LOST could play a small role. It is for me.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I added myself to that community_counts. Viva la resistance! Cool

But some people are taking this crap WAY too seriously; apparently they think the intarweb will explode!
http://news.livejournal.com/98960.html?thread=46182288#t46182288

And as to the pirate song, heh. It probably just hasn't evolved to your friend's page yet. As far as I can tell, this community was the start of it:
http://community.livejournal.com/innocence_jihad/

Just keep searching for the whole "never shall we die" stuff with your lovely little browser search feature in there *it's tricky since there's like... 50 new posts every half hour*. There's lots of icons too popping up with it. Pirates.. ... ughhh. And if you want me to link to each particular freaking post using it because you can't find it... ask me tomorrow.

Oh, and they went as far as to put it on wiki, and as EVERYONE KNOWS, if it's on wiki, it's official.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livejournal#Account_deletion_.28Strikethrough_.2707.29.

And my source has mainly just been this chick:
http://catrinella.livejournal.com/151812.html#cutid1
she has lots of nice links when I want to look in on the chaos some more, plus she isn't exactly screaming bloody murder.


Eh, I've seen a few of those amongst other sources, but I guess I just don't see that as screaming. Thanks though.


Last edited by Horitsuba on Thu May 31, 2007 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:13 am Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:


And how is a group homophobic if they're targeting shota, but not lolita? Neither of those directly involves homosexuality. Sexist perhaps, homophobic? No.




Sorry. ALL the shouta I've ever seen is out the yaoi community meaning it's ALL man/boy or boy/boy. I have never seen older woman/boy shouta titles. Not that I look for shouta. I ordered a bunch of yaoi magazines from Anime Gamers & in among the stuff I very much wanted(Adults) was 2 or 3 seeming shouta titles,. Yes, I know this nails me since it's in my possession as having child porn. It's not what I wanted. Yes, it's 1 story out of 15 per mag, but it's still child pornography. I can damage the books & rip those pages out, or continue to let them sit in their spot in the book & if my house is ever, for any reason, searched, I could be nailed. My only salvation MIGHT be that it is part of a larger collection of stories & the rest of my collection is solidly yaoi, as well as the usual general interest manga & anime. Thus

Quote:
WFI says that it did not report sites that are about what it termed as "Lolita fashion."


Only boys need protecting? Other reports also suggested general yaoi was targeted. And personal experience, I know a lot of these fanatics are anti-gay. I went to check out the gay pride parade hand in hand with my husband & the fanatics who'd come to yell at the parade yelled their lovely slurs at us & we were just lookie-loos. A teacher at my daughter's junior high was discovered to be gay thru his MySpace (yeah, maybe sort of stupid) & was pulled off the out-of-state trip. Because everyone knows gays have no self control & want to force themselves on all the innocent straight guys & they're all pedofiles.(Yes, I've heard THAT ugly comment too many times) my FEMALE coworkers joke about not bending over in the local gay community(I'd think they'd be absolutely safe to run naked in the streets there if they wanted to). Again, the image gays are monsters that can't control themselves.

One can also raise an eyebrow at the idea WFI may LIKE the idea of guys & underage girls since they didn't target those sites

littlegreenwolf wrote:

Now I have to go wonder if I need to start altering stuff in a community I run on livejournal because the main pairing of the anime/manga has a grown guy stuck in a child's body, who happens to have a questionable relationship with the main female character past the age of 17, and aparently this makes me a supporter of pedophilia. Bah


Fine line. Since the protesters probably aren't reading the stories, yes. Or even if you argue what you argue, they can say the representation is still child porn. It'd be like COnan telling Ran he's Shin'ichi & them entering into a sexual relationship. Even though the show's been running long enough for him to be his original age again, the show hasn't moved past him looking like he's 8 or 10, so Ran would be in trouble.
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pat_payne



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:37 am Reply with quote
Steroid wrote:
pat_payne wrote:
Steroid wrote:

But there's an option of consistency. Just as we loli fans say, "Damn the anime fandom, we have a right to read loli," so should the anime fandom turn around and say, "Damn the country, we have a right to our manga and anime."


No. If someone told me that I could have my fill of anime and manga if only I would see my country destroyed, I'd tell him to keep it. My country comes first. Something trivial like anime comes second.

Fair enough, thought I consider that monstrous. But what of those who don't share that view? If you have no obligation to the loli fan to fight for his right to read loli, what obligation has he to cover up loli to protect your right to read non-loli manga?


You see, this is where we diverge, and this is where I believe responsibility comes in. I do not fight for you, because I do not believe in your cause. I do not believe in your cause because I believe that your cause is detrimental to anime fandom as a whole.

Cicero wrote, in his On Obligations wrote this:

Marcus Tullius Cicero wrote:
[T]here is no aspect of life, public or private, civic or domestic, which can be without its obligation, whether in our individual concerns or in relations with our neighbor. Honorable behavior lies entirely in the performance of such obligations, and likewise base conduct lies in neglecting them.


I do not wish to sacrifice my and others' anime fandom to champion you and your small clique. I do see it as my obligation to stand up and say "no -- this does not belong in fandom, it has the potential to wreck the wider fandom's image in the public, non-otaku eye." You do have a responsibility to the grerater whole to at least keep your loli tendencies out of the light, because I do believe, as I have argued ad nauseam this would touch off a moral panic. We are seein gthat right now on LiveJournal. This group, WFI, started with a noble intention -- catching pedophiles. They, however, have impacted many innocent groups by an overbroad and overzealous dragnet. While their tactics are suspect (and very much so -- I suspect very little rational thought was given to their campaign before they launched it and so they just shotgunned anything that even remotely looked like a target), the fact remains that if the pedo groups had realized their obligation to the rest of the community as a whole to not openely publish material on raping children, the other groups right now would not be impacted.

Quote:
The drama is over, the battle remains. Nothing's over until the "Rape all the children" group gets treated the same as the "let's enjoy knitting" group.


THAT I find monstrous. That somehow everyone should be completely equal, with no judgments passed on their conduct as if there is no discernable difference between a group of pedophiles and a group of philosophers. Again you want all appetite with no moderating reason. You want anarchy. I refuse to accept that.

Again, from Cicero:

Cicero wrote:
[T]he reason commands, and the appetite obeys. Our every action must steer clear of rashness and carelessness, and must do nothing for which a praiseworthymotive cannot be adduced; indeed, this is virtually a description of obligation. We must ensure that our appetites obey the reason, and neither run ahead of it nor shrink from it through cowardice. They must be serene and clear of all mental disturbance, and this will ensure that steadfastness and self-restraint will emerge in all their glory.


Last edited by pat_payne on Thu May 31, 2007 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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voluptas



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:48 am Reply with quote
I understand about the shota community being deleted since it is all about depicting little boys in sexual situations. But I find it sad that LJ seems to be jumping the gun and deleting peoples' accounts just because they have yaoi as an interest.

I don't know much about the private company policy verses government policy so I won't make a comment on that, but I do feel a bit astounded that lj would delete customer's accounts (that have yaoi, not shota, as an interest) without checking into the lj first.
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pat_payne



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:52 am Reply with quote
voluptas wrote:
I understand about the shota community being deleted since it is all about depicting little boys in sexual situations. But I find it sad that LJ seems to be jumping the gun and deleting peoples' accounts just because they have yaoi as an interest.

I don't know much about the private company policy verses government policy so I won't make a comment on that, but I do feel a bit astounded that lj would delete customer's accounts (that have yaoi, not shota, as an interest) without checking into the lj first.


Although I am not into Yaoi, I do feel that deleting those who are is overextreme. If it depicts consenting adults, it should be no-harm-no-foul if the TOS allows it and it is not otherwise unprotected by US law (i.e. obscenity as defined by the current court tests, or libel) and if it is in an area that is inaccessible (or accessible with great difficulty) to children.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Sorry. ALL the shouta I've ever seen is out the yaoi community meaning it's ALL man/boy or boy/boy. I have never seen older woman/boy shouta titles.


I think the vast majority of shota material is male/male, but straight shota does exist.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:46 pm Reply with quote
does this have anything to do with why Livejournal is offline today?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Steroid wrote:

The drama is over, the battle remains. Nothing's over until the "Rape all the children" group gets treated the same as the "let's enjoy knitting" group.


Hahahahahaha oh Steroid.
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