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dormcat wrote:

fighterholic wrote:

More towards the term of yaoi, but there's hetero in there also.

Citation needed. I didn't find any source stating this wave of sweeping by Osakan police has targeted on yaoi titles.

Citation declined, post edited.

Egan Loo wrote:

The law cited by the article doesn't make a distinction between boys and girls. The term "seishōnen" is used in legal terms generically for youths of both genders, despite being based on the word "shōnen."

I know that, I just didn't word my sentence well (my brain was running on backup power yesterday). My point was supposed to be that there's already a "don't sell this to people under 18" law, so what happened was not that authorities suddenly decided to crack down on shoujo manga specifically, but that they decided to enforce an existing law.

Egan Loo wrote:

"Manga targeted at girls" is the literal definition of shōjo manga.

Yeah, but BL, while targeted at girls (and women, I've actually seen both definitions used by retailers), is technically not "shoujo manga," as in, it doesn't run in shoujo magazines. Which made me curious whether BL stuff was involved or not.

CloverKuroba wrote:

The only shojo manga-ka that I think could be seen as "harmful' is Mayu Shinjo (Kaikan Phrase).

I think she's just the most (in)famous around here, but she represents a general trend in shoujo manga. (And really, sex fantasy or not, I really can't imagine how any self-respecting girl can genuinely enjoy these stories. I really can't see how it is exciting to fantasize about essentially being abused, not matter how attractive the abuser is.)

If you want a perspective on why the Osaka authorities are focusing on shojo manga in particular, you could check out "On Modern Shoujo Manga and Sex: Excessive Sexual Material in Shoujo Manga and Magazine". I'd read it recently, so the news item didn't really hold much surprise for me.
From the article:

Quote:

We received an email from a mother (45) from Toyama prefecture on the issue of explicit sexual content in shoujo manga. She was shocked by the manga, which she found in the closet of her elementary school daughter (11). The manga contained scenes of sexual intercourse on Ferris wheels and classrooms, rape and profane words aimed at women are also present.

The manga in question was in Shogakukan's Shoujo Comic.

Richard J. wrote:

testorschoice wrote:

Huh? Hugging and kissing are extreme in the US?

Not the acts themselves but the extent to which some people take it. For example, it's fairly normal to give someone a hug. You wrap your arms lightly around the person and squeeze a bit, then release after a few seconds.

Some , however, like to grab people and practically smother them with their bodies while squeezing so hard that they have trouble breathing.

Same thing with kissing. Most people don't make out in public, but some people do and it's a little annoying. (Seeing people practically sharing a pair of jeans between them because their hanging all over each other is a tad disconcerting. Not mention slightly disgusting.)

Somehow, I get the impression that anime and manga are about to go through a dark time of censorship and repression. (That will make some people around here giddy with joy, right up until their favorite series takes a hit.) These sorts of crackdowns always start with the "worst" offenders then gradually work their way down until people finally revolt after it's gotten to a completely intolerable level.

It sounds to me like the PMRC which means more likely ratings.
It's an idea I've tried to put across but some seem to miss--that when author A does XXXX, another author will come along to outdo that author, but maybe not have the talent to make it as much art or style. Maybe author A had a rape which was necessary to the plot--others come along & say---"oooo I can top that!" and come up with something more gratuitous & graphic. Maybe the first author just hinted at it--those who come behind show it because they're trying to outdo it. If title A had the lovers in bed kissing, the next author may outdo that one showing more of what the couple is doing, etc.
Peoples, Absolute Boyfriend is pretty much Watase's style. Didn't Yui think she was raped which is part of why she took the opposite side to Miaka in Fushigi Yugi? Didn't Nakago let Miaka thinks she'd been deflowered so she couldn't summon Suzaku? Didn't Tomo (gay) try to rape Miaka (commenting the cries of his boy teammate arroused him more than Miaka)? Fushigi Yugi. Mid '90's? Early 90's?
I find the Japanese repression against kissing sad myself. You do know those people making out are showing off & thus are more the exception. The guy wants to show off what he has on his arm. The gal is either stupidly in love & doen't realize she's just a display or she's also showing off what she's caught or how mature she is she can make out. I kiss my daughter all the time because one of the things I stressed about after I found my husband of almost 21 yrs dead at 5:30 in the morning was whether I'd kissed him goodnight the night before. I usually did, but he wasn't feeling well & I was making his favorite cookies, so he might have just wandered off to bed without a kiss because he didn't want to pass his cold on to me. I can't remember & it bothered me for months after his death, so my daughter & I kiss goodnight every night & kiss goodbye when we part. And this is something it seems the Japanese don't do (if one can believe all the over-reaction in manga/anime down to CPR. My god CPR ISN'T KISSING! It's life-saving.) Yet they consider themselves more emotionally open because their guys can cry in public & ours can't? Ours can kiss & cuddle their kids. An adult man can hug his adult son & say he's proud.
So both countries are messed up.

I don't want to be mistaken for defending Yuu Watase, as I'm completely sick of her "style" *cough*self-plaigarism*cough*, but though it contained allusions to the worst of sexual acts, Fushigi Yuugi at least had a plot. A fluffy, melodramatic, juvenile one, to be sure, but it was a plot.

The only plot in Absolute Boyfriend is not even a plot, but rather a question: "How long till she gets it on!?" A question that, frankly, I don't think I really need to know the answer to.
This marks the first and only attempt I have ever seen by an author to create a serious story in which the antagonist is a girl's virginity.

Quote:

Peoples, Absolute Boyfriend is pretty much Watase's style. Didn't Yui think she was raped which is part of why she took the opposite side to Miaka in Fushigi Yugi? Didn't Nakago let Miaka thinks she'd been deflowered so she couldn't summon Suzaku? Didn't Tomo (gay) try to rape Miaka (commenting the cries of his boy teammate arroused him more than Miaka)? Fushigi Yugi. Mid '90's? Early 90's?

Absolute Boyfriend isn't any worse than Yu Watase's other stories in terms of containing rape or attempted rape. It leans more towards the 'sex fantasy' than any of the others because the whole story revolves around the heroine and her android love (sex) doll. In terms of actual sex and nudity, its no worse than any of her other series. Unlike her other stories, it simply lacks any redeeming story to go with it. The whole story is the girl keeping the fact that her 'lover' is a giant sex toy secret and ignoring the living breathing human right next to her who is in love with her.

So yes, Yu Watase uses (attempted) rape as a plot point in most of her stories. But she still keeps the nudity low, the (attempted) rapes aren't very explicit at all and the actual sex scenes (when there are any) are tastefully done. The (attempted) rapes are a plot point, not the whole purpose of the story. As opposed to Mayu Shinjo and others, whose stories are basically porn for girls/women who, apparently, like the idea of either being sluts or being raped.

MokonaModoki wrote:

If you want a perspective on why the Osaka authorities are focusing on shojo manga in particular, you could check out "On Modern Shoujo Manga and Sex: Excessive Sexual Material in Shoujo Manga and Magazine". I'd read it recently, so the news item didn't really hold much surprise for me.
From the article:

Quote:

We received an email from a mother (45) from Toyama prefecture on the issue of explicit sexual content in shoujo manga. She was shocked by the manga, which she found in the closet of her elementary school daughter (11). The manga contained scenes of sexual intercourse on Ferris wheels and classrooms, rape and profane words aimed at women are also present.

The manga in question was in Shogakukan's Shoujo Comic.

Holy f**k, that sounds awfully like Honey x Honey Drops. LMAO. I remember the lovers' ferris wheel scene alright.

IMO, I think Sho-Comi is really aimed for an older teen-young women audience considering the material running thru there. I mean, that's the only one that I remember being pretty racy. Hell, all of Flower Comics is pretty racy (and which Yuu Watase and Mayu Shinjo's titles come from and where Sho-Comi is affiliated with).

But this is another 'parents should pay attention' thing, really.

MokonaModoki wrote:

If you want a perspective on why the Osaka authorities are focusing on shojo manga in particular, you could check out "On Modern Shoujo Manga and Sex: Excessive Sexual Material in Shoujo Manga and Magazine". I'd read it recently, so the news item didn't really hold much surprise for me.
From the article:

Quote:

We received an email from a mother (45) from Toyama prefecture on the issue of explicit sexual content in shoujo manga. She was shocked by the manga, which she found in the closet of her elementary school daughter (11). The manga contained scenes of sexual intercourse on Ferris wheels and classrooms, rape and profane words aimed at women are also present.

The manga in question was in Shogakukan's Shoujo Comic.

The Japanese "Soccer Mom". How poetic.

No, most of the "swept" shoujo manga is probably not BL, but explicit smutty shoujo. BL is not usually considered shoujo; at the very least, it might be considered jyousei. However, there are plenty of shoujo manga (i.e. specifically targeted for girls under 18) that are full of explicit or close to explicit sex scenes and even rape-- often performed by hot androgynous boys on the main character, i.e. portrayed as positive and desirable. Shounen manga might have an exposed breast here and there, and a little groping, but it's usually not terrible. Seinen might have some explicit stuff, but again, that's not targeted for under-18s.

minakichan wrote:

No, most of the "swept" shoujo manga is probably not BL, but explicit smutty shoujo. BL is not usually considered shoujo; at the very least, it might be considered jyousei. However, there are plenty of shoujo manga (i.e. specifically targeted for girls under 18) that are full of explicit or close to explicit sex scenes and even rape-- often performed by hot androgynous boys on the main character, i.e. portrayed as positive and desirable. Shounen manga might have an exposed breast here and there, and a little groping, but it's usually not terrible. Seinen might have some explicit stuff, but again, that's not targeted for under-18s.

Why don't they put an 18+ sticker on the magazine and call it a day. Seinen is targeted to men over 18, otherwise it is called shonen. Not all shôjo manga is all about sex. Fushigi Yûgi is ment for ages 15+ depending on the parent because there isn't anything graphic about it. Sure, there are "scenes" but they aren't anything to get ones knickers in a twist over. ArielTsuki mentioned Honey Honey Drops, in Germany they rated it 15+ so it isn't as bad as some yaoi titles out there. I haven't read it, but the plot description seems to be an actual shôjo plot, not a porno plot. And I agree that it's about the parents who should inform their children. I was watching "Kelly Osbourne: Turning Japanese" and they were in a book store where 18+ manga/magazines were all over. (They had to censor the covers) I don't think the excessive "shôjo" manga should not be banned but sold to people who are older. I don't know the policies in Japan and I don't want to judge them.

Because they don't put age ratings on magazines over there like they do over here. They just make it let known that a certain type of magazine is for a certain type of age group. The only magazines that get "age ratings" are the adult content magazines, that's it.

Last edited by Brand on Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total

CloverKuroba wrote:

The only shojo manga-ka that I think could be seen as "harmful' is Mayu Shinjo (Kaikan Phrase). Almost all her one-shots go like this: horny, attractive boy forces girl to have sex with him, girl starts to fall in love with boy. Quality writing, I tell ya. Confused

Even her on going series are like that.

But she isn't the only author who does smut stories there are tons of them out there. (Check out half the stuff that comes out from Shoujo Magic) Girls smut isn't a genera that's made any head way state side. Most of it would be around the same level as yaoi. So some of it is tame-ish and some of it out right porn-ish.

I great the feeling most of those magazine are carrying "girl smut" manga. Probably it's been under the radar for a while now, and someone just took notice. Unlike men's books, which people know have adult titles, so this is probably why they haven't gone after men's books, they are probably 18+ already.

Well, it looks like they would have no problems if they just falgged everything printed that contains the word "renai".

I forgot I'd posted in this thread way back when this issue first came up, so pardon me for the very late reply.

J-Syxx wrote:

[Yeah, becuase homosexuals invented making out. Rolling Eyes

The fact that you jumped to that conclusion when, as Fiction Alchemist pointed out, I made absolutely no mention of homosexuals in my post, says far more about your prejudices than it does mine. I couldn't care less whether someone wants to have sex with a man, a woman, or however many people they want so long as everyone's okay with it.

I just don't particularly like seeing people slobbering all over each other and groping and grinding while I'm buying my groceries. If they want to bang each other, they can at least have the decency to do it somewhere that's not out in the middle of a store.

The reference I made to two people sharing a pair of jeans was from a personal observation of a HETEROsexual couple, that means it was a man and woman, who were literally that close. The girl was standing on the guys feet, so he was walking her around, while she holds on running her hands up and down his back and they lock lips. They actually had another person helping them to keep going in the right direction.

That sort of idiocy, in my opinion, reduces intimacy to little more than a carnival act. It's just over the top and pathetic.

Two men want to walk hand in hand, hug a little, and share a quick kiss, that's just fine by me. But I don't want to see two men, two women, or any combination of sexes in any numbers practically having sex right in front of me in a public place. My post was specifically addressing people who act like exhibitionists and idiots; my post had nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality.

Learn to read and stop projecting your own prejudices onto others.

And yeah, I know, probably pointless posting this so late but I felt like I should at least explain my own views. Uncontested lies become truth by default.

Quote:

Complete list

Well, many are periodicals listed separately, so the real number of "harmful" titles are not that many as it seems at the first glance. By the way, why the disproportionally high count of "renai" in titles. Did they use it as a keyword to start searching possibly "harmful" titles?