Forum - View topicREVIEW: Hellsing Ultimate DVD 2
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||
Let's be clear here: I am only a detractor on the OVA (and, from what I understand, I would be a detractor on the original manga, too). Except for how it fell apart at the end, I loved the TV series. I bought it when it first came out on DVD and for quite a while held it up as an exemplar of what was truly cool about anime.
As cool as Alucard, Walter, and Sir Integra are, Seras was always my favorite character by a slight margin. The whole "reluctantly learning to be one of the undead" thing worked for me, and the scene where she spoiler[manhandles Jan] is one of my favorite in the whole series. It may have been better-animated in the OVA and had its dialog repeated almost word-for-word, but the way the TV series handled it was much funnier.
No, I said it corresponds to episodes 5 and 6 of the TV series, which it indisputably does. (And I do comment elsewhere in the review that it's adapted from the manga.) Yeah, a couple of details are changed, but in several places the dialog is repeated precisely. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Berserkfury819
 Posts: 229 Location: Detroit Mi. Spider-Man is dead. R.I.P. |
|
|||||||
|
I absolutely loved Hellsing Ultimate vol. 2. I thought it was very accurate to the manga, and I actually liked the music. I think that it fits for the new series tone. I also seem to be one of the only people who think that the Japanese voices are better than the Dub. Don't get me wrong, the dub is great, but personally I think that George Nataka does a much scarier Alucard than Crispin Freeman. I thought the animation was some of the best I have ever seen, and I can't wait for volume 3. Now if only we could get this kind of treatment for Berserk.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
|
Now ya see, I love the Valentine Brothers for the total smackdown that they are. They swagger in all full of themselves & get their heads handed to them on a platter. As a vampire myth fan for over 30 yrs, I love segments like that. Yes, it's great for the vamp to face a real challenge, but swatting flies can be a fun distraction when well-done. It's sort of like L in DeathNote--he comes too early to be the one to take out Kira so his goal in the manga is pretty doomed. The Valentine Brothers are far too early to be the big bad they think they are.
For my money Seras was annoying. Her yes-make-me-a-vamp-no-I-won't-drink-blood pissed me off. (In the version for tv with Louis Jordan as Dracula he points out the flesh of a bird for humans, the blood of humans for vampires-no big dif to him. Or as Alice Cooper has said when asked if he actually killed a chicken onstage--Col Sanders kills chickens). Seras can be funny which is the only reason I tolerate her. I wouldn't be too sad if she offed herself since her whining gets in the way of some great vamp action. Go watch the sunrise or fall on a picket fence or accept it. Thank you I thought this time out flowed much better without the various gratuitous shots . My attitude on violence is like my attitude on fanservice. I've seen enough in my life, I don't "Oooo, his head got chopped in half" or think violence is cool for violence's sake. It becomes gratuitous when it stands out, when it doesn't blend with the story, then the makers of the film make a point of it--"look everyone, I'm going to slice this head in half. I'll do it in slow motion & replay it 5 times just to be sure you saw it. Maybe I'll throw in a flashback 10 minutes later". When I notice the fan service is when it's inserted in odd places as in Chrono Crusade when Rosette is fighting for her life-of course we need to see her panties. Or when it's just plain every 5 seconds. Luke's violence is an art, not gratuitous. In the tv series we saw far too much of the zombies trudging around which sort of reduced their effectiveness. In the OVA were barely see them in comparison & focus more on the main action And the music for a piece is the same. The music supports the show. It SHOULDN'T stand out. The job of the music is to make the show flow. I didn't notice the music for good or bad, so it must have done what it was designed to do. That's why it's called background music. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
ichiro3923
 Posts: 167 Location: hiding in your closet watching you |
|
|||||||
Same here, I prefer the japanese voice actor of Alucard, especially when he says "My master!" in dark voice |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||
You're giving the show much too much credit here.Both anime versions of Hellsing - but especially this one - are all about making the violence visceral, bloody, and cool. To say that any of it is artistic (or intended to be so) is a serious stretch. If you want to see true artistic violence, read the Battle Angel Alita manga, especially the Last Order volumes.
Um, huh? OVA = approx. 46 total seconds of zombies trudging. TV = approx. 65 total seconds of zombies trudging. (Yes, I actually timed these out.) Discount the repeated content due to an episode change in the TV series and the zombie-trudging time factor differential is negligible.
We're going to have to seriously disagree on a lot of this statement. If you don't notice the music, then how good/effective could it have been? The music is not only supposed to support the show, it's supposed to enhance it. That's a lesson that goes all the way back to silent films, and I can point to any number of great live-action and animated films (discounting musicals) which were great specifically because the musical score "stood out." Hellsing Ultimate is no different. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Berserkfury819
Posts: 229 Location: Detroit Mi. Spider-Man is dead. R.I.P. |
|
|||||||
Glad to know someone agrees with me. Key, I would have to disagree with you about the beauty of Hellsing's artistic violence. Now I have read Battle Angel Alita and I would completely agree with you there. In fact, its one of my favorite titles, however, I believe you mentioned that you have not read the Hellsing manga. I really think that you should. It might change your opinion. The violence in the manga is done beautifully and the new OVA incorporates that, which is one of the reasons so many of us love the new adaption of Hellsing. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
WesW
 Posts: 144 |
|
|||||||
|
When Zac raved about the first volume, Key posted that he wasn't nearly as impressed, so props go out to Zac for letting Key author this second review so that he could fully detail why he felt, and still feels, as he does.
As for why Key gave the volume an overall B, you just have to look at it from a neutral perspective. This may be an awesome re-creation of the manga, but the question is, is the Hellsing saga really grade-A material in general? Even in Zac's review he more or less stated that Hellsing is a genre show, meaning that if you like this type of stuff, you'll love it, but if you don't you won't. IMO, grade-A means that the show has a storyline and characterizations that most anyone could appreciate, whether or not they were action-horror fans. In that respect, I think the B+ is plenty good enough. Btw, you guys should really consider breaking up the review categories so as to give the dub and overall ratings their own individual grades. Practically every reivew thread has at least one post from a nOOb who doesn't understand the system, which I can sympathize with, and here we have an instance in which Zac seems to have gotten mixed up. I mean, all you have to do is add a line to the template. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11296 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||||
I'll throw in a vote as well. Jouji Nakata has that special quality in his voice that just exudes "it." I'm not really sure what word to use, but "it" is definitely special, and I can't think of a single person that could even compare to him, other than maybe James Earl Jones. Wow, imagine him as Alucard! And with the whole Darth Vader mentality already under his belt, that'd be so cool to hear! 
Though if we're talking strictly about anime voice actors, I still say Freeman is the closest thing to Nakata, at least more so than Taylor Henry was in Gankutusou. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
Obviously for my money an extra half-minute of zombie trudging/chomping on Hellsing org peoples(You were probably too literal. I distinclty recall more zombie in the tv version. Like the roughing up.torture of Peter Fargason who I didn't even notice in the OVA ep so I'll assume he wasn't there. I have one of the Battle Angel Alita VHS tapes. Did squat for me. I'm not into cyberpunk, though my teen was briefly. I've been into horror, particularly vamp stories for most of my life. Robert Bloch has some great horror humor. Frederic Brown is also pretty good for humor in a more sci-fi area. I love Saberhagen's Dracula tales. Did the Xanth novels & Myth Adventured for awhile. Heroes in Hell was a great series. You can like your killer chicks all you want. I could care less for Noir & Gunslinger Girl. I'll take Armitage over Alita any day. I struggled tio get thru the one volume of Last Order that I picked up because everyone was raving over it. It's mot my style. Hellsing is. GetBackers is cool. Basilisk was fun, though the novel was more enjoyable. Samurai Deeper Kyo rocks. I love Saint Seiya. Excel is wicked fun. Threads of Time has some great stuff in it. It's a sad fact of life that anime, like sci-fi & American comics is largely a male fandom, so us gals have to learn to pick what we like out of the reviews by guys(& gals) drooling over their hot chicks just as we've always had tro wade thru super heroines in 6 inch heels & unrealistically flimsy outfits. ( There's a scary gal at my local comic shop always drooling over gals in manga. I try to keep conversations short. I have Utena. I don't particularly want to discuss it for 20 minutes every time I see this gal. ALthough it is pretty cool visually, I could do without all that egg stuff) I'll stick with stuff like Hellsing, Demon Prince Enma, & Requiem From the Darkness. I find well-done horror has to strike a slightly more delicate balance between excessive gore & enough to make it work than other genres because it is a genre where too many just default to excessive buckest of blood because a certain segment of the audience just wants the gore--gore for gore's sake. 1408 could have opted for shock value, but instead gave us some great performances & some great moments of horror.
Hmm. I hear a different attitude expressed by composers when they talk about composing music for a piece like Danny Elfman discussing Nightmare Before Christmas(a musical, I know). They usually talk about supporting the title, not overwhelming it. If the music didin't do it's job of supporting the piece, then the scene wouldn't have played. I love action flicks. Action, comedy, horror are what I tend to go for & frankly, as much as I love Lethal Weapon, I couldn't tell you squat about the music. I know it supported the movie because the movie worked, but the music didn't stand out particularly. We all know the Indiana Jones theme, but again, the music was there to support the film, not say "buy the soundtrack". My daughter is currently gaga over Hans Zimmer thanks to PotC3, been listening to the soundtrack for about a week prior to the movie opening so I recognised most of it when we saw the movie, but it still supported the actors. It's not supposed to stand out. We saw Pearl Harbor which he did the music for. SHe flat out said she doesn't remember the music for that film, although she also disliked it for the heavy romance story though she's a big WWII fan. Once in awhile I have been annoyed by a poor musical choice-glaringly wrong. Once in awhile I might be impressed with a particularly well-done scene, but over all, the purpose is to support the scene. If I'm concentrating on the music, I'm not concentrating on the movie/anime as an entire piece. It's like an orchestra where one section is out of sync with the rest--ruins it, doesn't it? Or when one makes a mistake in cooking-too much garlic or salt, or forgetting the sugar kills the final product. Or in a beautifully photographed scene of a movie where all the hues come togerther & something stands out when it's not supposed to--maybe some crowd-member isn't blending in. . That's music's place in a show-as part of the whole. The perfection of the piece is how well it comes together. So basically I'm looking for a smooth mesh & you seem to want each piece to stand on it's own. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
|
But this site does rate a bit hard. Frankly, I abandonded using reviews as a guide & learned to figure out what I like in other ways. First off I tend to Pre-order things I know I'll like & reviews don't come out until after the product is released or so close the pre-order is useless. With anime, the stuff is released in Japan so there's stuff on the net, yes, but I've already learned from yrs of critics trashing movies I love.
After reading the review here at ANN of Speed Grapher DVD 1 I was expecting hords of gratuitous sex which I didin't see when I watched it. The sex scenes avtually had a point in setting the scene. Those regular first looks at the new batch of anime also run on the tough side. (come on-don't most first eps reek? They're all set-up so most titles can't get going until the 3rd or 5th ep) And Hellsing Ultimate does have the Hellsing backlash, They chose to return to the source-the manga-even though it uses nazis as the baddies(seen a few comments out there how the TV series "wisely" avoided falling into that trap). With a few changes here & there, they brought back the original cast. I'm gambling the music might be more a reflection of the author's tastes. Realistically Ishi's score rocked & I wonder if even he could match it if they had used him again for the OVA. Not to mention since it is a re-do, the tendancy might be to fall back to the same to the point of divergeance, so why even bother? This isn't a re-do in the same vein as the Tenchi re-tellings, tweaking thre tale here & there every time out, nor is it a complete re-write like Tsubasa--same faces, totally different lives. THis is a return to the source matreial to do it justice which wasn't done last time out so any review should be more with an eye to that source material & not the anime which was a major disappointment to the author. No, the TV version didn't reek although Incognito was a whimper ending. When we originally finished the series, my daughter & I were both wondering about that trailer which looked so great & promised do much--where was the clapping guy? Oh. The tv people changed their minds. Nice of them I'm in the Crispin Freeman camp. I got his autograph when he showed up at Comic-con in the Alucard outfit, but the box arrived during Comic-con, so I had to wait until after I recovered the day after it ended to actually watch the first dvd. It was the fun I had trying to get Hellsing & CCS as they were originally being released that led me to switching to pre-ordering stuff I wanted--no one ever had them out for sale on their street date back then. Jouji Nakata's great, but I prefer him as Giroro & Folken. His pitch is a bit deep for my blood to be ALucard, but he is a pro who can carry this stuff off in his sleep. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||
I timed exactly what you were complaining about: the "zombie-trudging" parts of the series. And again, discounting a couple of scenes repeated due to an episode break (which would have happened with the OVA, too, if it had an episode break in the middle), it's only 5-6 seconds more. If you want to figure together all of the zombie content, then the OVA comes out almost even with the TV episodes even with the repeats figured in, because the OVA places more emphasis on the zombies eating people.
I wasn't referring to the decidedly inferior two-episode anime version of Battle Angel (there are only two episodes), but the manga, which is far better. You're certainly welcome to pick Armitage over Alita, although I honestly can't fathom why; Armitage is as much a "hot killer chick with guns" as any other comparable anime series, and Battle Angel Alita (in its manga version) has every bit as much of a human element to it. But to each his own, I guess.
That's not my point. When I say a good score "enhances" its content, I am not talking about overwhelming the content or existing primarily to promote itself. I am talking about a score elevating the content to a memorable and entertaining level it would not have achieved without the score - and yes, supporting the anime is part of that. Indiana Jones movies are a classic example. Almost everyone who sees them remembers the score because it sticks out, makes the movies better by its presence. Looks at movies like Star Wars or Conan the Barbarian, both of which were made great as much because their stand-out musical scores contributed to their greatness because of any other factor. Would Jaws have had anywhere near the level of impact without its menacing musical score? Pearl Harbor is not what I would consider a good example of this, BTW. It wasn't even that good a movie.
No, that isn't what I am saying at all. (Although it does make reviewing easier if they do.  ) To me it seems like you're saying that a musical score is only good if it fades into obscurity amongst the other elements of a movie/series. If that's accurate, then I do not agree with that and prefer a score that has more of an impact than just backing the content in a utilitarian manner. That's why we have an Academy Award every year for best score, after all.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
|
I have a low zombie tolerance, All their movements equal trudging in my book. They are brainless & dull for my money & I can't see people's devotion to them.
Except 3X3 Eyes. Yakumo's the best zombie. Yeah! Damn Dark Horse for dropping the manga when they were only charging about $20 per volume. Wonder why it wasn't selling? I think we're actually very close. You're taking the time to notice the music specifically while I expect an ensemble & only notice the errors as they stand out as when one proofreads a document. In last week's Blood+ there was a scene where the music seemed to overwhelm the dialogue to me. Now whether the dub screwed it up by talking longer than the Japanese original or this was also a prob on the Japanese original, I'm going to have to wait until I get it & Blood+ is more box set for me, so I'll probably forget by then. At this point in my life it's more about checking for errors than looking for a particualrly well-written report. I notice good stuiff when I see it, but what's most important is the overall work. I thought Indiana Jones & Star Wars were whole pieces--they are great movies because it all comes together. Who knows if they had cast Tom Selick as rumored that it would have worked as well? If someone else had done the music do you really think people would have stayed away from either movie? The cinematography, the directing, the acting, the writing, all came together. In a way one might argue Williams was getting a tad over-exposed by the mid-80's. I seem to recall being reminded of other movies he'd scored after awhile. I've personally felt more movies ruined by horrid acting, stupid stories or really awkward special effects. So a good score helps of course, but it's usually pretty low on the scale of ruining a movie. It would have to be pretty horrid to kill a movie like Indiana Jones-like blaring rock music during a place most composers would use strings. (& I've seen a few scenes where the music was beyond an odd choice in my time & completely change the mood the story seemed to ask for) As I said, so many people were pushing Last Order so I bought Vol 1 of the manga & struggled to get thru it. I tend to like titles when I can get into the characters so obviously I was able to get into the Armitage characters better than Alita. I'll even take the Ghost in the Shell anime over Last Order, though it's more for the support characters than Kusanagi, (I do prefer Stand alone to the movies, but I'm not big on anime movies because they usually don't give as much character development as a series can). I also don't relate to print violence the way you seem to. I appreciate a well drawn spread, but very little printed stuff hits me as that violent because it's on paper & with manga it's usually black & white. I guess I view it more as art overall so dismemberment even doen't have the same impact.. On paper, it's art & one views the composition of the page per page while in a well-made movie/amime violence is more like choreography--it can be splashed all over, drenching the screen in buckets of to an excessive amount, or it can be well-done--not too much, not too little. And many times I find authors use big, beautiful spreads to slow down the action. I love Clamp(obviously), & X was gorgeous, but I quickly noticed each volume seemed to barely be advancing the story & it seemed to relate to the number of full & 2-page spreads. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Berserkfury819
Posts: 229 Location: Detroit Mi. Spider-Man is dead. R.I.P. |
|
|||||||
Well there's your problem, Last Order is not going to make any sense unless you have read all nine volumes of the original Battle Angel Alita series. However I will admit that Armitage is pretty sweet. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
|
|||||||
I will have to agree with you guys on this one. I actually liked the dub on volume one since I had time to rewatch it in English, but decided to watch volume 2 (first time through) in Japanese until i I make time for a second viewing in English. I really had a real hard time watching Gankutsuou in English. I'm glad that Theron gave this series a review since I find that reviewers often repeat themselves when reviewing multiple volumes of the same series, especially when they are consecutive episodes. I always take into mind that Theron is a much tougher critic compared to the others, and frequently gives a B grade to categories which I find very solid. My question is why did they put the special edition on two DVDs. Initially I though that it was so they could just have a generic DVD for both versions, and a special second DVD (like GITS SAC) with the special edition stuff, but it appears that the main feature DVD is different from the single disc release. With the feature clocking well under an hour, and the bonus interview being under a half hour I would expect them to use one DVD which would lower their (and our) costs. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
|
I'd imagine it makes it easier to put the extras not being included on the regular on a separate disc they can insert into the SE box. Movies do it all the time.
Wow. I have to say the tv series is so weak compared to the OVA (As the theme to the 2nd Valentine Brother ep plays) Yep, just for you, I'm watching them. The tv series has some cool music, but the OVA is much more in keeping with a horror movie style. It is sort of weird toi have all this jazzy music as people are being eaten. One can almost say the TV series is paranoid of leaving silence. while the OVA is far more sparing it it's use of music relying far more on a tomb-like silence in many spots punctuated by the movements of the characters. 2 25 minute eps vs 1 46 minute episode. Fully 3/4ths of the first ep is skipped by the OVA(the Valentine Brother's club, the trap with the bomb) which heads straight into the assault on the Hellsing Org. The TV series moves Integra into more of a cornered position with the Round Table taking her to task for the situation with the vampires in England while in the OVA she retains far more control. Most of the action with the brothers in the castle focuses on Jan who is accompanied by the ghouls. As I remembered Alucard's fight with Luke seemed on the back burner far more than Jan's stuff. Not to mention it's a wonderful moment when Integra realizes Seras has lost it & hugs her to try to calm her to bring her back to herself. And I also very much enjoyed INtegra having to be the leader & deal with her ghoul employees rather than having someone else do it. I have both the OST's for the tv series & they are cool music, but where's the sense in having a song with lyrics during Alucard's fight with Luke. Yeah, those of us who don't speak Japanese can take the whole as just music, but wouldn't it have been a better call to have instrumental music when Alucard is looking for a good fight & then realizes he's not going to get it? As I've been saying--as a whole project the music this time is used to support the action. It's a meeting for heaven's sake. We don't jhave background music at most of MY meetings, why should the Round Table? There's far less of the fear of silence as we get long stretches of silence punctuated by footsteps & movement sounds so when the music comes up, it seems to be thought out far more rather than filling all the reasonable(& nt so reasonable) nooks & crannies with a wall of music. This is horror. Silence is far creepier than constant music. Try it again, but this time remember you're watching a horror title like Dracula or 1408 & not some teen slasher flick including a dozen songs by a variety of bands to pitch the soundtrack. This isn't a date flick. The reason I could never be a critic is I go into every movie with a clean slate. Everyone asked me if Spiderman 3 was better than the other 2--I hadn't thought of it because I watched it on it's own merit & it came up lacking. I went into the Hellsing OVA hoping as I do with everything I spend my hard-earned money on that it will be worth the price of admission & it has been. Why spend $30 for something & then ruin my enjoyment picking it apart when I can look for things that make me glad I spent money on it? |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group