×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
ANNCast - Rambling Men


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
immortalrite



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Yonkers, NY
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:02 am Reply with quote
A very entertaining episode. I hadn't laughed this hard at an ANNCast since the spontaneous lampooning of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Speaking of Trigun, I may be alone in this, but I actually enjoyed the movie a bit better than the series; then again, I am certainly no diehard fan of the original either. Also, I was glad to see that someone else considers that Trigun dub to be fairly mediocre at best performance-wise (and I unfortunately have to include Bosch in that list of "wooden" performances - by far his weakest I have head) and had to laugh at it being included in that category of obviously dated, crappy dubs which a lot of people still love solely for nostalgia purposes [*cough* Evangelion *cough*]. That being said, I am definitely looking forward to Funimation's new and improved ADR direction and casting for the movie, as well as JYB as Vash with 10 more years of acting experience under his belt.

Also, props to Justin on his Kino's Journey reference. I always thought of that episode as a broader allegory for a kind of techno-communism, but I had to chuckle at the idea of it simply referring to people's life on the internet. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
maaya



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:36 am Reply with quote
GhostShell wrote:
Troubling, though, is the statement that the English dub changed the pronunciation of Oeufcoque's name. It's really not that hard to say in it's proper form.


They didn't change it, they probably pronounce it as good as they can. These words simply sound similar: coque. Maybe they should have changed it, in order to avoid any weird associations.

But I don't think the movie is supposed to look ugly. It looked nicely dark and depressing on my screen.

And you're right, Phi Brain *is* a children's show. And it doesn't look like those "wow"-children shows as Denno Coil or Erin, who are also interesting for adults.


Last edited by maaya on Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:51 am Reply with quote
See, to me, the superficial stuff is no big deal. If George Lucas wants to add a bunch of CGI lizards or whatever then fine. At worst, the odd thing might look out of place but most of em are just unnecessary. It's just cosmetic touches and it does actually detract from the movies. What kills me is the stuff that actually changes the story or characters. That's definitely not something I can stand. (Also the stuff that tries to reference the prequels because it prevents me from pretending the prequels don't exist).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 3983
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:38 am Reply with quote
GhostShell wrote:
Interesting to hear Zac's view of the DVD for Mardock Scramble: The First Compression. Troubling, though, is the statement that the English dub changed the pronunciation of Oeufcoque's name. It's really not that hard to say in it's proper form, and one wonder's why the dubbing studio would feel a need to alter it.

At the same time that Sentai Filmworks announced the release on DVD, they also announced a planned release in BD for 2012. One assumes the delay is due to the time frame that the Japanese BD version will be released and to help prevent reverse importation. I eagerly await Sentai's BD release next year.


Yeah, definitely appears to be the case, they're making us wait again.

The dub's pretty good though.

Agreed maaya, I definitely think the it comes off a ton more good looking than they make it sound like when they are describing it. Also there are plenty of scenes that don't use those filters like in the city during the daytime and the big last third indoors and most of the night scenes.

Also the second movie just came out over there apparently. So while the cliffhanger is brutal (in a good way) it's also kind of awesome since it's one of those moments where they successfully get you desperately wanting to see the next one the way it cuts out.

Trigun: Badlands Rumble was a ton of fun, just like the show, definitely was a great way to bring it back for the first time in so long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:23 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
People who complain about the Star Wars changes are in the minority, no matter how many people you may hear complain about them.. Average Joe isn't going to care. For video games, as you said, people cry "FF13 was horrible and terrible and the worst FF ever", yet it sold almost 7 million copies... a lot more than that "best game ever" they like to tote. Anime fandom has it too, sadly.. you see a lot of people saying "No one likes Naruto anymore, it sucks and everyone moved onto better series" yet it's still atop selling manga. Funny that. Bleach too, apparently.


Quantity DOES NOT equal quality. It's well documented that a majority of people in this world are feckless morons. Madden 12 will outsell every other video game this year, but that doesn't mean it's best game released this year. In total record sales, Celine Dion has outsold David Bowie, but that doesn't mean that she is a better musician. (Ziggy Stardust is one of the greatest albums ever made, by the way).

Here's the thing about Star Wars -- it doesn't belong to Lucas anymore. Oh sure, in a legal sense it does, but Lucas abandoned it after Jedi, and the fans took ownership. The fans made their own stories and characters and built their own worlds to play in. And these fans are very critical of Lucas because his prequels are utter crap compared to their imaginations. And this isn't my opinion, the prequels are demonstratively flawed. What it looks like to me is Lucas is acting like a petulant man-child, and purposely and maliciously making these changes to shit all over the old fans and to prove that he owns the story, not them. And that's why I will not buy anything other than the original theatrical release, which we won't see until Lucas kicks the bucket.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:11 am Reply with quote
Melanchthon wrote:

Quantity DOES NOT equal quality. It's well documented that a majority of people in this world are feckless morons. Madden 12 will outsell every other video game this year, but that doesn't mean it's best game released this year. In total record sales, Celine Dion has outsold David Bowie, but that doesn't mean that she is a better musician. (Ziggy Stardust is one of the greatest albums ever made, by the way).

Here's the thing about Star Wars -- it doesn't belong to Lucas anymore. Oh sure, in a legal sense it does, but Lucas abandoned it after Jedi, and the fans took ownership. The fans made their own stories and characters and built their own worlds to play in. And these fans are very critical of Lucas because his prequels are utter crap compared to their imaginations. And this isn't my opinion, the prequels are demonstratively flawed. What it looks like to me is Lucas is acting like a petulant man-child, and purposely and maliciously making these changes to shit all over the old fans and to prove that he owns the story, not them. And that's why I will not buy anything other than the original theatrical release, which we won't see until Lucas kicks the bucket.


Good god

No, George Lucas is not maliciously trying to hurt you, he didn't create the prequels just to mess with the fans. The Prequels was something his been wanting to do since the late 70's. No if I make a Harry Potter fanfic, where he decides that his going to have a harem, I can't claim that J.K Rowling's version doesn't count and that my version is canon.

George Lucas created Star Wars he gets to do whatever he wants, all you did was watch the movies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15305
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:13 am Reply with quote
CharredKnight: Meh, even if TF3 bombed, they'd still give him quite a few gigs on the success of the last two flicks.

Quote:
Thank god, someone has just stated that Gainax is an overrated studio. The mental gymnastics people go through to justify Gainax's bad writing is simply amazing.


I hate to go full hipster, but I've been saying Gainax sucked before it was cool. Rolling Eyes Though at least I'll always have Gunbuster and Otaku No Video.

As for Star Wars, I was always a bigger Indiana Jones fan, so I'm just glad I can watch the originals any time I want and pretend Crystal Skull was just an overpriced fanfic which wasn't canon to the story. And yeah, FFXIII got a lot of copies out the door, but it actually undersold, compared to the average FF game.

Quote:
The Prequels was something his been wanting to do since the late 70's.


Actually, he said he wanted to make sequels, but then his wife bailed on him, and he lost it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2545
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:09 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
See, to me, the superficial stuff is no big deal. If George Lucas wants to add a bunch of CGI lizards or whatever then fine. At worst, the odd thing might look out of place but most of em are just unnecessary. It's just cosmetic touches and it does actually detract from the movies. What kills me is the stuff that actually changes the story or characters. That's definitely not something I can stand. (Also the stuff that tries to reference the prequels because it prevents me from pretending the prequels don't exist).


This I agree with. The stuff like seeing life in Mos-Eisley in Episode IV or the dance number in Episode VI didn't really bother me. Hell, the whole "Greedo Shot First" ordeal doesn't even really bother me.

In fact, I was completely fine with the additions and changes made up until Lucas decided to use Episode III Anakin at the end of Episode VI. That, to me, seemed completely unneccessary; it not only made no sense from a story point of view (spoiler[Anakin returned to the good side right at the end], and it's just completely awkward seeing old Yoda and Old Obi-Wan standing next to Young Anakin) but it simply screamed of blatant advertising for the prequel trilogy.

As for the Blu-Ray changes, the only one that kind of gets to me is adding in Vader's "No... NOOOOOOO!" when spoiler[he betrays Palpatine at the end of Episode VI]. It honestly just completely changes the feeling and mood of the moment, and seems unneccassary. But, really, if only two changes get to me across six movies then I certainly can't complain much. And, yes, I used spoilers when it came to Star Wars... So sue me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bonham



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 419
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
George Lucas created Star Wars he gets to do whatever he wants, all you did was watch the movies.
I think what people take issue with is that Lucas is not releasing the unaltered versions alongside his current, whimsical changes. Filmmakers sometimes make changes to their works, but they (mostly) leave the option for fans of the original work to, y'know, view the original work. Coppola with Apocalypse Now would be a popular example of that.

Lucas's historical revisionism even flies in the face of principles he previously stood for. When you present yourself before Congress to argue against Hollywood colorizing black and white for profit (because changing how something in a visual, highly aesthetic medium looks is just a "minor change" Rolling Eyes ) and say something like this:

George Lucas, 1988 wrote:
People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.
to only do the same thing shows a clear case of hypocrisy. Of course, some contrarian may point that he's protesting against studios making such changes, but this does not change the underlying actions of profit over integrity that Lucas of 1988 spoke against.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:46 pm Reply with quote
I hope Mohiro Kitoh listens to this for some reason and decides to buy Justin's TV show idea for a manga. I'd totally read that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2545
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Bonham wrote:
I think what people take issue with is that Lucas is not releasing the unaltered versions alongside his current, whimsical changes. Filmmakers sometimes make changes to their works, but they (mostly) leave the option for fans of the original work to, y'know, view the original work. Coppola with Apocalypse Now would be a popular example of that.


Well, to Lucas' credit, the last DVD release of the Star Wars movies, specifically the original trilogy, did offer the option to either watch the newest, pre-BR, versions of the films or watch the original theatrical versions. Granted, there was no option to view the late-90s Special Editions of these films on the DVDs.

But, yeah, there probably should have been the option to view any version of the films on the Blu-Rays. You get all of that new extra content, so why not simply offer all 4 versions of Episodes IV-VI?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Anime World Order



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:13 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
I suppose I'm a terrible person because I really don't care about any changes to Star Wars. Or, gasp, I think they actually improve it (Inserting CGI Jabba into the first movie when he was originally played by a human... I'd say good edit/plothole fix)


With regards to that specific example you mentioned: Jabba the Hutt was never in the original film. Not as a human, not as an alien creature. He wasn't there. That entire scene was never ever in the movie. It's a deleted scene, never in the original film because it conveys no new information to the viewer that has not already been established. The insertion of said scene required additional special effects work to integrate into the picture, since as you said adding it as-is would introduce a continuity error. Except the effects work done still doesn't match up with the character's appearance in Return of the Jedi.

At best, it adds nothing. At worst, it undermines characterizations (example: Han firing in self-defense) and other sections of the movies. The nature of the alterations combined with the fact that the revised editions are the ONLY legal option available to people who wish to see the movies in high-definition are the fundamental objections fans are making. See Bonham's post above.

You know how on this very forum, whenever there's an announcement about an anime or manga series being released in the US that may need to undergo editing, the way everyone reacts quite negatively? This is the exact same thing. Remember the times before One Piece was being released by FUNimation? Remember how everyone really hated the 4Kids version? A big part of that was because that was the only version made legally available to people. Oh sure, it was "still 90% there," but if you wanted regular ol' One Piece without the obnoxious rapping or jarringly out-of-place CG alterations, you had no choice but to get the fansubs, aka "steal it."

Well, that's what is happening with Star Wars. If you want to just see these movies with upgraded picture (and optionally sound), you MUST get a fan-made edition, aka "steal it." And that's just how it's going to have to be until George Lucas dies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4426
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I think people are disappointed because they had too high of expectations considering that Trigun hasn't had any new animation in 13 years.

People tried to start a boycott for the third Transformers movie to try to kill Michael Bay's career. The movie made over a billion dollars. Fans on the internet who have similar interest get together, and come to the conclusion since they know a bunch of people than they must be a ton of other people who have a similiar opinion.

It happens with people who hate Final Fantasy, you get a ton of people who claim that the series has sucked since 7, and yet the series is still one of the most popular RPGS worldwide.

.


Yeah, I laugh anytime I see a call for a boycott regarding downloadable content for a game. Some people are really dead set against it, but the fact that DLC is so common, it's pretty clear that it's a minority. Those boycotts seem to be about as effective as online petitions.



I thought about getting the Star Wars BD since I still have VHS copies of the original trilogy. Right about the time that I was going to get DVD copies, Blu-ray was coming out, so I figured I'd just wait. Since I was already dropping some money on Trigun Badlands Rumble and the new volume of Berserk that is supposed to be out this month, I figured I'd just wait for Christmas to get Star Wars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
George Lucas created Star Wars he gets to do whatever he wants, all you did was watch the movies.


I don't know. I mean, I don't exactly agree with the idea that fans "own" a movie just by virtue of being fans. However, this hard ass push-back you see in response to it kinda seems just as bad if not worse (and more than a little mean spirited).

If there's one fandom that has done more than just "watch movies" It's Star Wars fans. The fact is that if it weren't for fans, Star Wars wouldn't even be half as relevant as it is today. It would just be another classic but ultimately largely forgotten movie that nobody but hardcore film geeks really cared about. I mean, would Lucas have even had a chance to make the prequel trilogy nearly two decades later if not for the huge continued popularity among fans?

I don't generally like to play up "fan entitlement" these days but the truth is that you can't totally discount it. Without an audience guys like Lucas wouldn't ever have a chance to do what they love, make great films and (at least in Lucas' case) get rich as fudge doing it. So yeah, you know what? Lucas does owe his fans. They don't deserve to be crapped on.

Of course, all that said, you're not wrong. Lucas certainly can do what he wants with the movies. He owns them. It's his right. Although...regardless of the fans, I still don't think it's right. (Can =/= should obviously). While I don't pretend Star Wars is the absolute greatest movie ever, it is still a classic set of films and arguably the single most influential movie series of all times. That's not something you should mess with. It's a piece of cinema history and it should be preserved in it's original form.

Lord Geo wrote:
This I agree with. The stuff like seeing life in Mos-Eisley in Episode IV or the dance number in Episode VI didn't really bother me. Hell, the whole "Greedo Shot First" ordeal doesn't even really bother me.


Yeah, I have to say that I really don't like Greedo shooting first. To me, that really kinda alters Han's character. Otherwise though, I agree with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:53 pm Reply with quote
*A government agency raising little girls to be lethal weapons*

Gunslinger Girl?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group