Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Black Lagoon DVD 2


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DemonEyesLeo



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 844
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:15 am Reply with quote
I have to say that Black Lagoon and BECK are two of the best releases of the year.

It's sad, in a way, that the next volume will be the last for this series. Good thing the Second Barrage is not too far away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Heretic



Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Laurel, Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:27 am Reply with quote
I'm praying that once they get enough material (from the manga) they make more. This is one of my favorite series, and it constantly delivered; it had the action, the thrills, the (twisted) humor, and even built upon the characters. I couldn't ask for much more...except a third season. Very Happy

I wonder if the Second Barrage steel case will look any different, assuming it will be a steel case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1862
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:04 am Reply with quote
I think Katabuchi and Maruyama said that they'd consider making more if the DVDs did well; damn, this needs to get on TV as I can't imagine getting bored of it after 24 episodes.

Also:

Quote:
I hopes you like it.


I laughed REALLY hard during that one line of delivery from Revy (the other being Dutch's racial slur in episode 6... topped off with a "no need to get disrespectful" right after the fact); a lot of the racially-charged humor really works (thanks to a combination between the dub and the fact that it seems like Katabuchi and most likely the original manga creator actually seem to "get" it).

I also liked the Columbian accents... and the dude who played the dude at the S&M bar ("Whose that friend of yours who looks like he ain't never seen a pair of titties before?")... and the Nazis (complete with epic singing)...

Yeah, the dub just reeks of awesome.

Also, I like that the animation has been consistent; Devil May Cry dropped off after like... 2 episodes, but this has been spot-on for the most part; even the weakest-looking episode on disc (to me, being episode 6) still looked sharp.

And hey: Tetsuro Araki did episode direction for episode 8; awesome.

That said, I also appreicate the fact that Ocean did a COMPLETE translation for the credits; more studios need to do this.

What else is there?

Uh...

I guess that's it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vicserr



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 476
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:03 am Reply with quote
Man, Vol 2 continues the all out rollercoaster ride that vol 1 set up, fun, sexy & violent to the core, fully recommended.

**And the Porn editing scene was pure gold** Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number My Anime
Bushwack



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:11 am Reply with quote
First off let me say that I am buying this series. Every one they put out.
I really like the premise and the world that Rei Hiroe has created.
Why hasn't any one picked up this manga in the us? I'd buy that too.

I wish that they would do a third season or an OVA.

I agree with the reviewer that this is a very good dub although the when the Nazis start sign their "Anthem" , I knew there was going to be trouble. It's pretty funny. The usual trick is to pull back to a group shot so the flaps aren't so noticeable but the director stayed in tight showing small groups and individuals. So its flap city. I'll just say they did their best.

I thought the scene where Revy is talking and eating a burger deserved another take as well.

There are also a couple of places where the animation looks stiff. (i.e. On the zodiac heading for the Nazi ship.)

All in all its a great show that is improved by the english dub.

Why hasn't any one picked up this manga in the us? I'd buy that too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1862
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:38 am Reply with quote
Vicserr wrote:
Man, Vol 2 continues the all out rollercoaster ride that vol 1 set up, fun, sexy & violent to the core, fully recommended.

**And the Porn editing scene was pure gold** Cool


This was one of the scenes where I was both confused and amused; I kept wondering what the hell spoiler[Balalaika was doing this herself for, when she could've had one of her minions do it; the thought of some big-time mafioso doing something like this herself was just hilarious].
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ironwarrior



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Under Clare's armor, Lewisburg, WV

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:46 pm Reply with quote
I'm a slobbering, obsessive Revy maniac (made my own t-shirts, tank tops, posters) and normally hate dubs, but this review has convinced me to watch the dubbed version. Kudos to the writer for one of the best written reviews, regardless of subject material.

My only problem with Black Lagoon is it set such a high standard for me with what I like, which is "hotass anime action chicks." Ever since season two ended, only Claymore has come close to matching the "rush."

If God is kind, He will bless us with another season...or two...or three... Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:54 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Japanese dub falls short of capturing the full spirit of the production.


Excuse me? It should be the other way around.

The English dub lacks feeling when it's compared to the US Dub. Most of the characters lost alot of character in between the translations.

Revy in the Japanese Dub sounds like a boorish, swear-word packing boozehound. Revy in the US Dub sounds like a mild-mannered gangbanger. I mean, the VA doesn't give the wild emotion that is Revy. She reserves enough back to seem like she's trying not to be offensive. Which is annoying to say the least. She should be making enough racial slurs that would make the KKK blush with envy.

Dutch sounds like a grizzled veteran of wars, and seems to ooze an air of maturity about him in the Japanese dub. As for the US dub, it doesn't sound....old enough. If the hints in the anime and manga are correct, Dutch should be a Vietnam Vet. The US dub sounds too young, like around 30-40. Dutch should be pushing at least 50 or so.

Rock has something wrong that I can't quite place in the US dub.....I want to say he doesn't seem "submissive" enough to the Lagoon Crew at first. He doesn't sound like a really depressed salaryman. He just sounds like some retail worker at the local S-Mart.

Benny....Benny......I think a few more appearances before I can gauge him.

Balalaika doesn't sound like a Eastern European in the US dub. It's too refined, it's too Western European. I mean, she went thru the Afghan War, and she holds herself up like a proper woman? She should at least show some grit behind that facade of being a businesswoman. As is, it looks like she was a disgruntled European Heiress that got into the arms business.

Overall, I think the dub needs a major direction change to at least correct some personality faults. They can do better; problem is, much like how they package the DVD special features and the cases, it's sorely lacking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Murai



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:23 pm Reply with quote
The Japanese dub was, IMO, great (especially when considering the setting and characters). Everyone did very well and there were very few lowpoints in the overall casting. The English cast, of the few scenes I was able to catch of it before sending it back due to a defective extras disc, sounded pretty good, though I wasn't too wild about Revy, who sounded "softer" (Rock was good, if a tad iffy, but who other than Brad Swaile would fit that role so well?). Of course, it was only the first batch of episodes, so there is a good amount of time for improvement.

As for the Cowboy Bebop comparision, I also shared that same sentiment. However, Black Lagoon isn't that sort of show and doesn't need that styling to make itself great. It has its own formula and style (realistic and gritty as opposed to CB's noir and slickness) which makes it so. Overall though, BL is the best series of its kind since that 1998 masterpiece.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Seraphim_Alchemist



Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Camuy, P.R. (US)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:01 am Reply with quote
I'm glad Black Lagoon is getting such high reviews Anime smile, I bought volume 1 without knowing anything from the series except for the fact that when people asked for what anime to view next a lot of people said that if you liked Hellsing you will enjoy BL even better, after that I read the first review here and I listened to the awesome opening by MELL and I was convinced.

Can't wait to get my hands on volume 2 Anime smiled
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger My Anime My Manga
Tony K.
Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 9760
Location: Frisco, TX

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:19 am Reply with quote
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
The English dub lacks feeling when it's compared to the US Dub. Most of the characters lost alot of character in between the translations.

I think you mean the English dub lacks in comparison to the original Japanese, but anyway, I disagree with your statement here. While I like the original seiyuu cast as well and am familiar with some of their other work, I particularly like the fact that they picked Ocean to do the dub. Aside from maybe Revy, I don't think anyone lost anything in translation at all.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Revy in the Japanese Dub sounds like a boorish, swear-word packing boozehound. Revy in the US Dub sounds like a mild-mannered gangbanger. I mean, the VA doesn't give the wild emotion that is Revy. She reserves enough back to seem like she's trying not to be offensive. Which is annoying to say the least. She should be making enough racial slurs that would make the KKK blush with envy.

I'll agree that Megumi Toyoguchi has a deeper tone in her voice to really come off as down and dirty. And to be honest, when I first heard Ocean was dubbing this, I thought she'd be the hardest to cast, given their current pool of VAs, which frankly, doesn't have a lot of women that can talk that low.

However, given these circumstances, I feel Maryke Hendryske is as good as I can expect. Granted, it's not quite the same, but her efforts in delivery and the limitations of what dialogue you can actually make for English transition mouthflaps are still commendable. Imagine if they hadn't added all the cussing and vulgarity that's already in the script? At least Ocean went out of the way to make it as gritty as possible.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Dutch sounds like a grizzled veteran of wars, and seems to ooze an air of maturity about him in the Japanese dub. As for the US dub, it doesn't sound....old enough. If the hints in the anime and manga are correct, Dutch should be a Vietnam Vet. The US dub sounds too young, like around 30-40. Dutch should be pushing at least 50 or so.

Uh.. how many black VAs around the age of 50 in Ocean do you know? Wait, that's right, Tsutomu Isobe isn't black either Rolling Eyes. You're forgetting that English VAs in just about all companies, while around two decades old, don't have a lot of stability in their pool of actors, even to this day.

Anime in itself is still very niche in terms of voice work and getting a concrete, long-lasting job is difficult, in my opinion, so it's not like they'll have VAs lined up with 30+ years of experience, let alone maybe even 10-15+ years of strictly anime voice acting, as opposed to the Japanese who've been doing it a lot longer.

Sure, Dean Redman doesn't sound as scruff as Isobe, but would you rather have an old white guy play Dutch or take a chance at a guy who at least fits the racial correspondence, let alone he's a total newbie at voice acting (this is his debut role, as far as I know). We know he's black, so at least it sounds natural. Though personally, I think Beau Billingslea would've been perfect for this.

Regardless, though, at least they didn't stereotype him and make him some ghetto street punk or something totally unnecessary. Dutch is merely a very experienced mercenary with the subtle etiquette of a business man. Redman captures it well and sounds like a veteran (both in character and through his profession).

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Rock has something wrong that I can't quite place in the US dub.....I want to say he doesn't seem "submissive" enough to the Lagoon Crew at first. He doesn't sound like a really depressed salaryman. He just sounds like some retail worker at the local S-Mart.

Not submissive enough? This is freakin' Brad Swaile, the guy is infamous for playing sissy characters (Quatre from Wing, Sai from Hikaru, and Mousse from Ranma). I couldn't think of a better pansy voice in all of dubbing for this role. And on top of that, Rock isn't completely submissive. In the episode where he spoiler[ bites back at Revy, Swaile did a great job in portraying that same compassion and stilted feelings over how he didn't want the woman he highly respected to become another one of those lousy pawn scum corporate suits he'd been working with for so long prior to.]

Also, depressed salaryman and retail worker at the local S-Mart are essentially the same thing. They both perform a line of routines, kiss their bosses asses, and for all intents and purposes, usually possess little to zero enjoyment in their jobs. They do whatever it takes to get by, and as long as they're alive to see another day, that's basically all they need to worry about. The tone in his voice fits that aspect in a very similar fashion to what Daisuke Namikawa had created, and I for one am absolutely glad they casted Swaile in particular for depicting Rock.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Benny....Benny......I think a few more appearances before I can gauge him.

Benny is Benny. You don't see or hear much of him at all aside from the Nazi arc and a little bit in Second Barrage. I'm not too familiar with Hiroaki Hirata, and the only real major role he's done is Sanji in One Piece (which I haven't seen yet).

But from what I've gathered through just his portrayal of Benny, he seems to be most normal member of the group. Sure, he's just their electronics guy, but it's not like he serves any greater purpose in terms of dialogue or character interaction, so don't expect too much in the first place.

As for his dub voice, I'm a big fan of Brian Drummond, though it's too bad he was only reduced to a fairly minor character. But even still, he pulls of the whole Jewish, wise-cracking support guy very well. Any time he talks, it's basically either a report on the radar or some kind of light dialogue to make things a little more mellow. I especially liked in episode 5 his remark about the Nazis: "And don't forget I'm Jewish. 'F*ck the Nazis' is our family creed!" Such a simple and subtle line, really, but man did he say that with confidence and fervor Laughing.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Balalaika doesn't sound like a Eastern European in the US dub. It's too refined, it's too Western European. I mean, she went thru the Afghan War, and she holds herself up like a proper woman? She should at least show some grit behind that facade of being a businesswoman. As is, it looks like she was a disgruntled European Heiress that got into the arms business.

By your previous comments, I'm guessing you've already seen the entire anime series (both seasons) and read some of the manga. Again, like I mentioned about Dutch, you find me an exact match within Ocean that fits an Afghan-war torn, scarred up, tough 'n gritty, Russian woman, then you can talk.

Do you even think there's anyone fitting that description within ZRO Limit, FUNimation, or freakin' ADV? I've heard dubs from all the major companies, and believe me, after listening to Oceans excellent work in Master Keaton, if I ever wanted an anime with lots of international characters being dubbed with decent accents, these people would be at the absolute top of my list.

And you don't think Mami Koyama is too refined herself? Listen to any of her other roles, and you'll find a lot of them actually share a rather aristocratic demeanor to them. Balalaika is no different, regardless of her hardships and the horrors of war she faced with her men.

In fact, I think it's because she survived those rough times that she deserves to act as high-class as she wants. Not only does she have the knowledge and man power to exercise her muscle, she knows full well that if anyone f*cks with her, they're either dead or will face some kind of painful torture, and then die.

Patricia Drake pulls this of to a T, even with some of the noticeable variance in her fluctuating accent. It's a hell of a lot better than anyone else I could ever pick in the industry. They even kept her saying uponsky (however you spell it), so big ups to the director and script writers.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Overall, I think the dub needs a major direction change to at least correct some personality faults. They can do better; problem is, much like how they package the DVD special features and the cases, it's sorely lacking.

It's fine as it is. And this will make a huge difference come Second Barrage which is full of Engrish. Trust me, I love what Toyoguchi did for Revy, and I still can't think of anyone that can decently dub Wataru Takagai (he's in Second Barrage, for those of you who didn't know), well, Josh Phillips did an awesome job for Jan in Hellsing Ultimate, but yeah, I go into a lot more detail on the whole peculiar language setup here. This will be the deciding factor in the dub, and this is why I'm going out of my way just this one time to defend an English dub vehemently.

I'm not saying the dub is perfect by any means, and I'd never use words like "superb" or "surpass" to take away anything from the work and effort of the original (since we wouldn't even be able to make an English dub if not for them), but it's not as bad as you're claiming it to be, either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:00 am Reply with quote
This is gonna take a while to sort thru. Apologies Tony K. if I mess up.

Tony K. wrote:

I'll agree that Megumi Toyoguchi has a deeper tone in her voice to really come off as down and dirty. And to be honest, when I first heard Ocean was dubbing this, I thought she'd be the hardest to cast, given their current pool of VAs, which frankly, doesn't have a lot of women that can talk that low.

However, given these circumstances, I feel Maryke Hendryske is as good as I can expect. Granted, it's not quite the same, but her efforts in delivery and the limitations of what dialogue you can actually make for English transition mouthflaps are still commendable. Imagine if they hadn't added all the cussing and vulgarity that's already in the script? At least Ocean went out of the way to make it as gritty as possible.


I just felt that Hendryske didn't go far enough. Like I said, it seems she's holding back from being a full blown bitch. She has the guns, she needs the voice to back them up. But as is, the guns aren't 9mm, their pellet guns.

Quote:
Uh.. how many black VAs around the age of 50 in Ocean do you know? Wait, that's right, Tsutomu Isobe isn't black either Rolling Eyes. You're forgetting that English VAs in just about all companies, while around two decades old, don't have a lot of stability in their pool of actors, even to this day.


Never said they had to get it spot on by hiring some black VA to fill the role; I feel the voice doesn't really capture Dutch to a T.

You have a guy that has gone thru hell and back, and is now a well respected merc. His voice needs to sound like he's gone thru hell and back. To me, the current voice sounds like someone before boot camp.

Quote:
Anime in itself is still very niche in terms of voice work and getting a concrete, long-lasting job is difficult, in my opinion, so it's not like they'll have VAs lined up with 30+ years of experience, let alone maybe even 10-15+ years of strictly anime voice acting, as opposed to the Japanese who've been doing it a lot longer.

Sure, Dean Redman doesn't sound as scruff as Isobe, but would you rather have an old white guy play Dutch or take a chance at a guy who at least fits the racial correspondence, let alone he's a total newbie at voice acting (this is his debut role, as far as I know). We know he's black, so at least it sounds natural. Though personally, I think Beau Billingslea would've been perfect for this.


And Bart Simpson has a VA thats in her 30's/40's?? Your point?

Quote:
Regardless, though, at least they didn't stereotype him and make him some ghetto street punk or something totally unnecessary. Dutch is merely a very experienced mercenary with the subtle etiquette of a business man. Redman captures it well and sounds like a veteran (both in character and through his profession).


Still needs to show the scars of battle, which Redman does not emote thru the voice work.

Quote:
Not submissive enough? This is freakin' Brad Swaile, the guy is infamous for playing sissy characters (Quatre from Wing, Sai from Hikaru, and Mousse from Ranma). I couldn't think of a better pansy voice in all of dubbing for this role.


I don't quite follow. So your saying someone that does sissy voices = submissive character?

Quote:

By your previous comments, I'm guessing you've already seen the entire anime series (both seasons) and read some of the manga.


Torrent and got the manga from a military penpal of mine from Camp McTureous in Okinawa.

Quote:
Again, like I mentioned about Dutch, you find me an exact match within Ocean that fits an Afghan-war torn, scarred up, tough 'n gritty, Russian woman, then you can talk.


And find me where exactly I said it had to be exact. I mentioned they don't match the characters, which the Japanese dub did wonderfully. You can actually put the voices to the characters. The swill the US dubs have? Again, see my first post.

Quote:
In fact, I think it's because she survived those rough times that she deserves to act as high-class as she wants. Not only does she have the knowledge and man power to exercise her muscle, she knows full well that if anyone f*cks with her, they're either dead or will face some kind of painful torture, and then die.


And her men respect her. But I don't see it in the US dub voice. More akin to a lifestyle dominatrix than a woman that went thru the afghan war. Ergo, failure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony K.
Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 9760
Location: Frisco, TX

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:40 am Reply with quote
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
I just felt that Hendryske didn't go far enough. Like I said, it seems she's holding back from being a full blown bitch. She has the guns, she needs the voice to back them up. But as is, the guns aren't 9mm, their pellet guns.

Holding back how? Tone of voice or acting-wise? If it's tone of voice, I think that's all you'll get, because from listening to her in the interview on the extras disc, her natural voice isn't very low at all (it's pretty normal), and she's already gotten this far through 2/3 of the first season, so I doubt they'd make her change it at this point.

Acting-wise, I don't know what else you're wanting out of her script. I think the level of profanity is good enough already with plenty of f-bombs, s-bombs, and blurts of "c*cksucker" all over the place.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Never said they had to get it spot on by hiring some black VA to fill the role; I feel the voice doesn't really capture Dutch to a T.

You have a guy that has gone thru hell and back, and is now a well respected merc. His voice needs to sound like he's gone thru hell and back. To me, the current voice sounds like someone before boot camp.

...And Bart Simpson has a VA thats in her 30's/40's?? Your point?

I guess you missed what I was getting at about the age thing. Okay, Isobe was well into his 50s when making this. How many anime VAs do you know of that you can call "veterans" that went through hell and back?

Nancy Cartwright doesn't count because she's been doing Bart for a while. Anime VAs get so many more different roles from series to series. On top of that, not every VA gets a major role either. So combine the fact that they have to do a lot of characters, then run the chance that it might be a nobody, and my point is that it's difficult to even cast these "seasoned veterans" when most of them haven't: A) been in anime too long; or B) haven't done enough major roles.

Isobe had the obvious advantage of sounding older because, well, he's already a lot older than Redman probably is. Plus, there aren't a lot of old guys within Ocean that would still sound tough at the same time, so you have to take what you can get through the auditions.

I mentioned Beau Billingslea (most famous for his role as Jet in Cowboy Bebop) because one, he's black, so that makes sense for Dutch, and two, he's only 3 years younger than Isobe, a seasoned veteran in the game of life.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Still needs to show the scars of battle, which Redman does not emote thru the voice work.

Where are you getting these "scars" from, anyway? Are you telling me Isobe actually served in Vietnam himself or was participant when Korea started acting wacky? He just happened to audition for the role of Dutch, and the sound director liked it and they worked with it from scratch. English VAs essentially do the same thing, only they have to rely on the director.

They can't help that you've already got a preconceived notion of what you want them to sound like because they, themselves, aren't even allowed to hear the original voices. It's a practice in dubbing that prevents them from trying to imitate based on hearing a voice, but instead adapting the role with their trust in the director.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
I don't quite follow. So your saying someone that does sissy voices = submissive character?

No, but if you've heard Swaile in his other roles, it reflects the same kind of submissiveness that I interpret from Rock's character.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
And find me where exactly I said it had to be exact. I mentioned they don't match the characters, which the Japanese dub did wonderfully. You can actually put the voices to the characters. The swill the US dubs have? Again, see my first post.

Well you could've fooled me. By not matching perfectly, I was thinking that the implication was that everyone must be perfect in English, since by your comments, they obviously didn't. I interpret your "wonderfully" as "perfectly." But like I mentioned, it's all about preconceived notions because you heard them in Japanese first.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
And her men respect her. But I don't see it in the US dub voice. More akin to a lifestyle dominatrix than a woman that went thru the afghan war. Ergo, failure.

See what? You're supposed to hear voices, not see them. I'm guessing you're probably a war vet yourself then, if you had a friend send you those manga from Okinawa. If that's the case, then I guess you know absolutely everything there is to know about Balalaika's character and how to dub anime. Sorry for doubting you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 12967
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:45 am Reply with quote
You know, I really should learn to accept that some people just aren't going to see eye-to-eye with me on dub grades/comments and leave it at that, but sometimes I can't help myself.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Quote:
Japanese dub falls short of capturing the full spirit of the production.


Excuse me? It should be the other way around.

The English dub lacks feeling when it's compared to the US Dub. Most of the characters lost alot of character in between the translations.


Quote:
Overall, I think the dub needs a major direction change to at least correct some personality faults. They can do better; problem is, much like how they package the DVD special features and the cases, it's sorely lacking.


Wow, did you watch the same DVDs, and listen to the same dub that I did? I have watched all of the DVD-available episodes through both ways (in some cases twice) and find myself utterly at a loss for how you can find the English dub in this one so inferior to the original. You do provide enough specific examples and articulation to convince me that you're not just making blanket statements, but given how much you're nitpicking here, I have to wonder if you'd be satisfied with any English dub. Hell, even Tony K liked this one, and he's normally one of the pickiest critics around when it comes to dubs.

I must utterly disagree with you on most points. Revy sounds too soft, like she's holding back, in English? To my ear you have that completely reversed. For me the anger and attitude came through much clearer in English than in Japanese, where she actually sounded nice in some scenes, and during episode 6 I got a much better sense of her being troubled by her submarine conversation with Rock in the English version rather than the Japanese version. Toyoguchi may be far more experienced, but after listening to the Japanese dub I had to wonder if she was cast right for the role, as to my ear Hendriske's performance clearly one-upped her.

Tony K pretty much covered what I would have said on the other roles, although he didn't hit hard enough on point I have stressed in the reviews: how can Japanese voice work for indisputably black characters sound that much better than an actual trained black actor doing the role? (Purists have often harped on Japanese characters not sounding "Japanese" enough in English dubs, so it's only fair that criticism be leveled both ways.) I have personally worked and had regular contact with a lot of black males in the age range of Dutch, so I know what they should sound like, and Dean Redman's performance sounds like that. I would bet that 99% of them agree with me that he sounds more "right" in English than Japanese even given his background.

Perhaps a lot of this perception comes from the fact that I watched the dub first, so I automatically register that as the default. I am assuming you did the reverse. It probably also bears mentioning that I don't automatically assume that the original performance is the better one just because it's the original. (Some may deny it, but I am absolutely convinced that's the mindset of a good number of people in these forums.) I'm willing to acknowledge that a dub performance can exceed the original, and I wouldn't have said that in the review - and scored it the way I did - if I wasn't convinced that was the case here. Naturally you're free to disagree, but that doesn't mean I buy your counter-arguments at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:28 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Wow, did you watch the same DVDs, and listen to the same dub that I did? I have watched all of the DVD-available episodes through both ways (in some cases twice) and find myself utterly at a loss for how you can find the English dub in this one so inferior to the original. You do provide enough specific examples and articulation to convince me that you're not just making blanket statements, but given how much you're nitpicking here, I have to wonder if you'd be satisfied with any English dub. Hell, even Tony K liked this one, and he's normally one of the pickiest critics around when it comes to dubs.


Yes, I did buy the legit DVD's, unless Borders is suddenly selling bootlegs for some odd reason. And yes, I find other dubs great and pretty much either on-par or even better than the Japanese Dub. Cox sounds great as the bad boy InuYasha, Strait sounds perfect as the ever cunning and obsessed (besotted?) with his daughter Hughes in FMA, etc. Most i've seen and own do a good job with the voices, but i'm starting to find Black Lagoon might be hitting or missing it completely.

Quote:
For me the anger and attitude came through much clearer in English than in Japanese, where she actually sounded nice in some scenes, and during episode 6 I got a much better sense of her being troubled by her submarine conversation with Rock in the English version rather than the Japanese version. Toyoguchi may be far more experienced, but after listening to the Japanese dub I had to wonder if she was cast right for the role, as to my ear Hendriske's performance clearly one-upped her.


It sounded like the other way around. You could tell when T(oyoguchi)-Revy was going thru her mood swings and being cocky. With H(endriske)-Revy, at times, I wasn't truely sure if she was moping or even wanting to really kick ass (like in the Boat Hopping Scence. It kinda felt that she was disinterested in her choice of targets for H-Revy, but with T-Revy, you felt that she was just itching to use the M79 and the Steyr TMP.

Quote:
how can Japanese voice work for indisputably black characters sound that much better than an actual trained black actor doing the role?


I think my issue wasn't about race, it was more about age. The voice never really sounded old and wise to me. I mean, can you really trust Redman version of Dutch?

Let's put it in another context: spoiler[In Episode 9, Dutch compares the shootout with Roberta in the Yellowflag bar with the Battle of Khe Sanh.] Now, compare that comparison against both the Japanese and English dubs. Which dub do you think would best show the age of Dutch's comparison?

Quote:
Perhaps a lot of this perception comes from the fact that I watched the dub first, so I automatically register that as the default. I am assuming you did the reverse.


Something we can agree with!! Horray!!

Quote:
Naturally you're free to disagree, but that doesn't mean I buy your counter-arguments at all.


Same back to you sunshine.

Quote:

Holding back how? Tone of voice or acting-wise? If it's tone of voice, I think that's all you'll get, because from listening to her in the interview on the extras disc, her natural voice isn't very low at all (it's pretty normal), and she's already gotten this far through 2/3 of the first season, so I doubt they'd make her change it at this point.

Acting-wise, I don't know what else you're wanting out of her script. I think the level of profanity is good enough already with plenty of f-bombs, s-bombs, and blurts of "c*cksucker" all over the place.


But I don't feel convinced that the swearing is...threatening? Insulting? Effective? Convincing? I mean, it's one thing to say something hurtful, but if you don't say it effectively, it's just a word.

Quote:

See what? You're supposed to hear voices, not see them.


Much like a food dish, it's not all about the smell, it's sometimes is about the visual appeal as well. You have to look at something from another angle sometimes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group