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NEWS: Aniplex to Stream Fate/Zero Worldwide in 8 Languages


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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:54 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
That's absurd. If streaming almost always lost money then Crunchyroll would not exist. What you are saying is glaringly false. Streaming isn't exactly lucrative but clearly it is profitable at least in most cases.


Cruncyroll has a subscription, which complicates matters. However, based on what I have heard said from those in the industry, advertisement based streaming is done at a loss except for a handful of shows which actually draw a large audience to make it worth it (I presume stuff like Naruto and Bleach).

Based on content rates we do know, the math seems to confirm this (i.e., 10,000 viewers or viewers does not make a sustainable ad-based model). Anime's just not that popular (apart from a handful of franchises).
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:06 pm Reply with quote
Draneor wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
That's absurd. If streaming almost always lost money then Crunchyroll would not exist. What you are saying is glaringly false. Streaming isn't exactly lucrative but clearly it is profitable at least in most cases.


Cruncyroll has a subscription, which complicates matters. However, based on what I have heard said from those in the industry, advertisement based streaming is done at a loss except for a handful of shows which actually draw a large audience to make it worth it (I presume stuff like Naruto and Bleach).


For a streaming-only operation, ad-based streaming only would struggle to cover the fixed costs of subtitling and mastering.

But ad-only operations for streams that have to do their own subtitling and mastering seems to be on the way out. Crunchyroll had a mixed model from the start, Hulu has moved to a mixed model, and FUNimation is reportedly moving to a mixed model. ANN moved to a mixed model. TAN had a mostly-subscription system and now, with its move onto Hulu, is moving to a mixed model from the other direction.

So saying that ad-only streaming services would normally not cover their full costs is not really saying that streaming in general fails to cover its full costs, its more explaining why that approach to streaming is on its way out.

As far as covering bandwidth costs with ads ~ which Crunchyroll seems to have been doing and Hulu certainly did ~ there seems to be a scale component there, both on the bandwidth cost side and in terms of appeal to advertisers ... but the scale component is not per-series but rather total, and a smaller series that add hits at an otherwise slack time of day on that day of the week that would struggle to cover its bandwidth costs on a smaller streaming site could well easily cover its bandwidth costs on a larger streaming site.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7271
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:11 am Reply with quote
Draneor wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
That's absurd. If streaming almost always lost money then Crunchyroll would not exist. What you are saying is glaringly false. Streaming isn't exactly lucrative but clearly it is profitable at least in most cases.


Cruncyroll has a subscription, which complicates matters. However, based on what I have heard said from those in the industry, advertisement based streaming is done at a loss except for a handful of shows which actually draw a large audience to make it worth it (I presume stuff like Naruto and Bleach).


So let's just recap here for a second:

-I complain because we're getting these crappy streams instead of much better crunchyroll streams.

-Megiddo's response is to tell me that I should just be grateful since they're doing me a favour by losing money on streams.

-I point out that clearly, crunchyroll doesn't loose money.

-Your response is essentially to admit that the way crunchyroll does it, with subscriptions, streaming is profitable and that it's just free streams that aren't.

So, in summation...I should be grateful to Aniplex for choosing to lose money with inferior streams when they could provide better streams that wouldn't lose money!?.

...

...

Are. You. [expletive]. Kidding. Me?
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7892
Location: IL
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:31 am Reply with quote
Can you be sure that people would subscribe to Niconico and Crunchyroll?

Business just ain't that easy.

Also, Crunchyroll was only made profitable after millions of investment capital, and it took years to happen... if it ever happened at all. All I've read is that they were able to reach a point where they simply broke even.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7271
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:52 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Can you be sure that people would subscribe to Niconico and Crunchyroll?


I never said they would. I'm not saying they should offer subscriptions on niconico or that they should try to turn niconico into a site just like crunchyroll. They already have a site just like crunchyroll...crunchyroll itself! Hence, they should just forget this niconico crap and put it on Crunchyroll. Then it would indeed be just that that easy.

It's as simple as this: They can use the profitable, quality option, crunchyroll, or they can use the unprofitable, poor quality option, niconico (that by your own claim would take years and millions to ever become profitable). To choose the latter is sheer idiocy.

Quote:
if it ever happened at all. All I've read is that they were able to reach a point where they simply broke even.


1) This is all a moot point. Aniplex's profits =/= Crunchyroll's profits. Aniplex's profits = Crunchyroll's licensing fee. Hence, regardless of whether Crunchyroll is making money, Aniplex get's payed.

2) At best, higher quality and breaking even is still clearly better than low quality and losing money.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:00 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
... So, in summation...I should be grateful to Aniplex for choosing to lose money with inferior streams when they could provide better streams that wouldn't lose money!?.
...

Are. You. [expletive]. Kidding. Me?
NicoNico is developing a paid model too, which is like the Crunchyroll model turned upside down ~ free in the first week, only paid members after that. Its just a 25 cent token membership payment during the beta period, but the FAQ makes it explicit that the 25 cent is only until the beta period is over
Quote:
25¢ Membership has special features you won't get on a free standard account.
Special feature includes.....

1.User Live Broadcasting ...

2. Anime Viewing
- New episodes are available free only for the first week. However, by becoming a 25¢ member, you can unlock the 1 week viewing limit and enjoy animes as long as you want.

The 25¢ is a nonrecurring charge. Once you pay 25¢, your membership will be effective all throughout the β period.
In any event, whether the streams make money or lose money is not all that relevant to Aniplex, since Aniplex will make money off the streaming even if NicoNico doesn't.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7271
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:58 am Reply with quote
Oh don't get me wrong. I don't buy most of what Megiddo is shovelling. It's just, rather than dispute his assumptions that Aniplex loses money by streaming on nico nico, it's easier to demonstrate that his larger claims that Aniplex is "doing us a favour" are absurd regardless.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1841
Location: USA (mid-south)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:55 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:

Every Saturday night/Sunday morning I'm watching One Piece via Funimation's stream at *gasp* 360p. So obviously such a quality level is not abnormal.

I am curious why you are watching the 360p stream on Funimation's website instead of the 480p stream of the same episode on Hulu.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:30 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
-Your response is essentially to admit that the way crunchyroll does it, with subscriptions, streaming is profitable and that it's just free streams that aren't.

We do not know if Cruncyroll is consistently profitable, even with subscriptions. Basically, there is only one month were we know they at least broke even. Anything beyond is speculation as their financial information is not public.

ikillchicken wrote:
So, in summation...I should be grateful to Aniplex for choosing to lose money with inferior streams when they could provide better streams that wouldn't lose money!?.

At no point did I make that argument. In fact, if you read early in the thread, I explicitly stated "I just can't fathom feeling grateful every time a company offers advertising." Anime streaming is (primarily) done for advertising. It's (often) not a revenue-generating enterprise and thus done at a loss. I agree you don't have to feel "grateful" just because a stream is offered.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 pm Reply with quote
Draneor wrote:
At no point did I make that argument. In fact, if you read early in the thread, I explicitly stated "I just can't fathom feeling grateful every time a company offers advertising." Anime streaming is (primarily) done for advertising. It's (often) not a revenue-generating enterprise and thus done at a loss. I agree you don't have to feel "grateful" just because a stream is offered.


One thing that is confusing about this argument is not keeping straight the difference between the company doing the streaming and the company providing the content. Its perfectly possibly for Aniplex to make money streaming on NicoNico, whether or not NicoNico will be making money on the stream.

The whole "gratitude" line of argument is, of course, a prospective discussion black hole, since on the one hand, its such an odd way to frame the question and on the other hand, two people could agree 100% on the facts at hand and still disagree on what kinds of things you should feel "grateful" for.

Its encouraging that Aniplex has sorted out worldwide streaming rights. NicoNico does not have the most appealing streaming platform for me, especially the "free for a week, paid members after that". While I wouldn't think twice about paying a couple of dollars for a season access to a show I was interested in, let alone a quarter ... I've got a sneaking suspicion that the real paid member price will be higher than a couple of bucks a season.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7892
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:33 am Reply with quote
Hmmm... it's now 8:30 PDT on October 1st and I have still yet to see anything about Fate/Zero on niconico's page Sad

EDIT: Well, I found this page on the nicovideo.jp site.
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