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NEWS: Crunchyroll, TV Tokyo Sue YouTube Users for Unauthorized Anime Uploading


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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1871
Location: USA (mid-south)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Aura Ichadora wrote:
To be honest, I think via YT is the only free, legal way there is to watch the full first season of Code Geass. It's a bit of a different beast in this case, but I do believe I'm not the only one that watches some anime on YT.

Crunchyroll also has the first season of Code Geass:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/code-geass-lelouch-of-the-rebellion

On that topic, it is rather disappointing that no one legally streams R2.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Crunchyroll wrote:
We frankly don't give two shits about the legal streaming of anime, and really just care that you watch our streams which as it happens are now legal. Categorically, we do endorse doing whatever the hell we suits us. Hypocrisy be damned.

Recently, we have identified a few specific accounts on YouTube which were responsible for over 200 million unauthorized streams of the same content we also used to stream illegally millions of times before we went legit. These accounts were owned by repeat uploaders like us (except we did it for money) who continued to illegally distribute licensed shows despite receiving multiple DMCA takedown notices. In compliance with YouTube's TOS, filing a formal legal complaint was a necessary step in order to keep these illegal streams off of YouTube.

With permission and cooperation of our former victims who we eventually backed so far into a corner that they gave in and became our partners, we will continue to work on our own behalf to protect our profits from people just like us.

Thanks to our years of illegal streaming Crunchyroll is now the only legal website where anime fans can watch shows such as Naruto Shippūden and BLEACH and other, better shows immediately after TV broadcast in Japan. Hence, you've basically got no choice but to support our evil, hypocritical asses since revenue we receive is shared with anime producers in Japan and goes toward making more great anime titles in the future. We want to sarcastically thank our self loathing fans in the regions we stream to for their continued grudging support in helping us prove that crime really does pay.
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DifferentD



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Yeah again.. it says these were repeat offenders who even after having videos removed and getting warnings continued to upload videos. Come on.. they had to know it was wrong and that they could get in trouble. Despite what anyone may think we are not all entitled to free anime/manga etc.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:44 am Reply with quote
thaivuN wrote:
Rather than targetting little rats like Youtubers, shouldn't Crunchyroll be chasing after Illegal Anime distribution sites that gets 5 or 6 digit daily viewership and most importantly AD REVENUE?


Because that would be harder to do. They went thru Youtube first because it's the easier of the options. Path of least resistance: Youtube would actually work with them to do something about it. Like exams, do the easier questions first, the harder ones later.

Also:
Murder She wrote:
In compliance with YouTube's TOS, filing a formal legal complaint was a necessary step in order to keep these illegal streams off of YouTube.


It seems, they only went thru the courts because Youtube requires it to continue barring the specific videos off the site. Without the legal documents to back up the claims, Youtube cannot just take the word of the complainants, especially if the defendants file counterclaims, which seems to be the case here. So it makes sense to require legal documents. It doesn't seem like they're suing for money beyond court costs and nominal penalty; they just want to have the legal documents to back up their claims.
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UltimaShadowfax



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:59 am Reply with quote
Kirben wrote:
Another pointless lawsuit which will only turn people off using their services. Especially because Crunchyroll isn't viable alternative for many.

Anime titles on Crunchyroll's are frequently region restricted, meaning people have no chance of seeing anime series. Crunchyroll's streaming doesn't allow buffering, so can be completely unusable on lower speed connections, and even high speed connections at times. It is a long time (2009), since Cruncyroll allowed episodes to be completely buffered, before play back.

I bought a 1 year subscription through their last Black Friday sale, but rarely have been able to get decent streaming, and too much content (old and new) is still region restricted. It is ridiculous, when I payed for a service, but still have to download fansubs, to actually see these anime titles!


The main reason I don't use CR is in bold. Despite the irony, I have no problem with CR suing over anime on YouTube. But I don't blame anyone for looking for alternatives to CR ... yes, even if it's watching on YouTube. CR is crap.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:15 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:


errinundra wrote:
I think that the current piracy issues reflect, to a large extent, the disconnect between what fans want and what licencees are providing.


Simple solution: the IP holders give what the consumer wants......within reason.


For the most part they do the problem is that more often than not American pirates refuse to get off their "Free downloads with 1080p video" demand. Anime is extremely cheap with the S.A.V.E line in particular being the best example. A lot of Americans are fine with leeching off the Japanese.

I remember one guy simply stating that he sees no reason to buy SRW games since he will simply pirate the english translation games. Someone then pointed out that the fan translated games are all from 10 years or older.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:57 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
For the most part they do the problem is that more often than not American pirates refuse to get off their "Free downloads with 1080p video" demand. Anime is extremely cheap with the S.A.V.E line in particular being the best example. A lot of Americans are fine with leeching off the Japanese.

I remember one guy simply stating that he sees no reason to buy SRW games since he will simply pirate the english translation games. Someone then pointed out that the fan translated games are all from 10 years or older.


You also have to note, the animosity towards the IP holders has been seething for nearly 2 decades plus now. Pretty much at this point, only a miracle can shake up the problem into being solveable.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:50 am Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
Incidentally, it's been interesting to observe how many have failed to acknowledge--let alone engage...

It shouldn't be.

Trying to engage any discussion with people so hell bent on pounding the anti-piracy drum is a wasted effort.

Just look at the insult you did with Robert's post by taking a quip on hypocrisy and twisting into an anti-piracy tirade.

No one who can engage is going to want to receive the same treatment for their efforts to discuss.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 678
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:32 am Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:


Just look at the insult you did with Robert's post by taking a quip on hypocrisy and twisting into an anti-piracy tirade.


All the angry anti-lawsuit posts in the thread, and you want to complain about a very short and not-angry (but disappointed) dissenting post. You mistake a sharp challenge for an insult. The failure I spoke of happens to predate both the RACS post and mine, by the way.

Look: the entire point of complaining about the hypocrisy angle is to delegitimize the lawsuit and to suggest that Crunchyroll has no business asserting their rights or the rights of anyone else. Now there's a point of view that says an action like this is always a waste of time and effort, and that's debatable, but that sentiment is & was something else. And yes, I do think it is narrow and convenient to only focus on Crunchyroll and repeat very familiar protests while not paying even slight attention to the clear interests and rights of copyright holders such as TV Tokyo. Meanwhile, Crunchyroll's assertions about this situation and the accounts they are going after still remain unchallenged.
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:54 am Reply with quote
So it' was perfectly okay when Crunchyroll uploaded anime illegally, but when all of the sudden, someone else does it, it's not.

Ironic isn't it?
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:00 am Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
All the angry anti-lawsuit posts in the thread, and you want to complain about a very short and not-angry (but disappointed) dissenting post.

Yet not a single one of these took a statement on the hypocrisy, related it specifically to a retailer (who provided no position on the matter) and connected it to the debate.

Twisting should be applied to pretzels, not words.

Quote:
The failure I spoke of happens to predate both the RACS post and mine, by the way.

The failure I'm addressing didn't occur until your post.

Quote:
The entire point of complaining about the hypocrisy angle is to delegitimize the lawsuit...

Only by inference. Without the lawsuit, there is no hypocrisy. No one's really said much against the lawsuit itself (your point), but the company's position for doing it.

This was completely expected the second I saw the article title. It would be a fool who did not see this manner of discussion coming.

Quote:
...while not paying even slight attention to the clear interests and rights of copyright holders such as TV Tokyo.

This is because the "interests" are the debatable element of a discussion and causes nothing but back-and-forth diatribe where either side is unmoving.

Those interests, by the way, allow this company to attack other businesses when it comes to streaming anime.

The elephant in the room has nothing to do with rights, but this is my opinion. Just as the hypocrisy has no relation to the option being pursued of the rights holders.
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zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 1293
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:11 am Reply with quote
The most important sentence in the article comes from the Crunchyroll statement:
Quote:
In compliance with YouTube's TOS, filing a formal legal complaint was a necessary step in order to keep these illegal streams off of YouTube.

In other words, the only reason Crunchyroll filed a lawsuit is that YouTube requires that before they will enforce their own TOS and prevent these repeat offenders from continuing to upload anime illegally.

That is why they filed this suit and are not going after the download and streaming sites that make money off of ad revenue. This suit is not intended to go to court, it is only a tool to make YouTube do what they should be doing already.
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dan888



Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:41 am Reply with quote
This seems to be required because of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)

Most know about the take down provision of the DMCA, if you send out a DMCA notice on content you own, the host is required to take down the content. However this is not the end of it. Because this is ripe for abuse, the recipient of the DMCA is allowed to make a counter notice if they feel that the DMCA was in error. This is required because there have been many cases of people taking down content that they don't own, but rather don't like. However, if you make a counter notice, there is a 10 business day period where they need to keep the content offline, and the party who sent the DMCA can take legal action to keep it down.

In this case, it seems like these uploaders claimed that they own the content when it was taken down with the TVTokyo DMCA request. Youtube, in complying with the DMCA by keeping it offline during the period for the individuals to respond, however they do have to bring the content back online because these uploaders claimed they own it. Therefore, as required to keep it down, Crunchyroll/TV Tokyo filed a lawsuit to keep it down. This provision of the law is needed to avoid abuse (I shouldn't have to power to take down something I don't like), but because of this provision a legal notice is needed regardless of if they want to or not, if this is indeed the the reason why they are doing it.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 678
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:22 am Reply with quote
zensunni wrote:
The most important sentence in the article comes from the Crunchyroll statement:
Quote:
In compliance with YouTube's TOS, filing a formal legal complaint was a necessary step in order to keep these illegal streams off of YouTube.

In other words, the only reason Crunchyroll filed a lawsuit is that YouTube requires that before they will enforce their own TOS and prevent these repeat offenders from continuing to upload anime illegally.

That is why they filed this suit and are not going after the download and streaming sites that make money off of ad revenue. This suit is not intended to go to court, it is only a tool to make YouTube do what they should be doing already.


Sounds like an excellent and reasonable point to me. I hope it's well taken.

PetrifiedJello wrote:


Only by inference. Without the lawsuit, there is no hypocrisy. No one's really said much against the lawsuit itself (your point), but the company's position for doing it.


The problem is that this is totally inadequate. TV Tokyo's position is just as relevant if not more so, and it remains so regardless of the stubbornness of the controversy that you're frustrated about. That is not an excuse. It'd be one thing if TV Tokyo could pursue this without Crunchyroll, but if that's possible the case for it hasn't been made just yet. And the burden on critics that aren't just venting, it seems to me, is to make a reasonable case for what alternative and/or better actions are (which can be done). It's easy to point and mock or criticize.

That said, I do see where you're coming from now about that post. I don't think he's pro-piracy and no one should. I do think that if someone in this industry wants to critique it, they should have something useful to say. If he does in some other blog post, then fantastic.

Quote:

Those interests, by the way, allow this company to attack other businesses when it comes to streaming anime.


Simply claiming that you've grown more than your competition does not constitute an "attack" any more than a commercial ad claiming that a product or service is superior to the competition. But I respond to this because it highlights the problem here again; comments are made about the position of TV Tokyo and license holders in Japan and part of the response is this complaint about a Crunchyroll press release. Why?!
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:16 am Reply with quote
It's a bit late, or a bit too early for an April fools' joke, isn't it?
The bloody cheek! Laughing
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