Forum - View topicWhy do a lot of Gundam fans hate SEED Destiny?
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Viga_of_stars
 Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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It's probably because I seen destiny first and now I'm starting SEED. But why do a lot of fans diss SEED destiny so much? I actually enjoyed what I seen so far.
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SharinganEye
 Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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Because it was a disjointed continuation from SEED.
People wanted more Kira and Athrun, not what's-his-face Shin Asuka. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Because it was stupid and characters were...well
Cagalli - she was interesting in Gundam Seed but in GSD she become cry-baby 
from what I noticed fans didn't like how Cagalli turned out in Gundam SEED Destiny Kira - always right, never wrong It was like Jesus visited GSD Lacus - always right, never wrong. Way to perfect Athrun- most of Athrun's action in Destiny doesn't make sense, he behaved like he completely forgot what he learned in seed Shinn - angsty whining brat from hell. Lunamaria - first she seemed to be interested in Athuran but ends up with Shinn right after Meyrin's "death" 
Many stupid things like Mu La Flaga survived LOOOOOOL and other things that destroyed GDS 1. flashback 2. flashback 3. flashback Last edited by Aylinn on Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Viga_of_stars
Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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But Kira and Athrun are in destiny.
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SharinganEye
Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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Besides what Aylinn mentioned, it took too long for the old favorites to come back again in the so-called sequel.
Fangirls/boys got impatient I guess. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I don't think that Destiny is that much worse than Seed, but for starters I wasn't a huge Seed fan. Many people complain about Destiny's use of stock footage, but I''m still convinced that Seed has just as much.The main difference is that the Destiny transformations are so flashy (compared to Seed's launch sequences and attacks) and stand out more. Seed has it's share of Freedom's rainbow attack and Ramius bouncing sequences. The other complaint is the use of recap episodes. I'm still convinced that Seed has more of these episodes than Destiny. From what I gather there are two back to back near the end of Destiny which I believe only has 2 recap episodes as of DVD 9. I think Seed has 5 recap episodes and I really should count them.
Second and more important is that I have only watched the first 9 Destiny DVDs and I hear the worst is yet to come. I gather there are some serious issues about unresolved plots which I can already see some indications of. I think the first major signs of plot direction changes are on the 8th DVD spoiler[The stuff with Stella and Mu La Flaga were the first things that had me confused ] I'm sure you could spot minor things after watching the series through earlier. The third main reason and the one I agree most with is the weak characters introduced in Destiny. I really can't stand Shin and pretty much any other new characters besides the Hawks in Destiny. I was thinking about commenting about my stance on Destiny once the final DVD came out, but was unsure if I should revive the pre-existing long Destiny thread which people should read since many good points are there. I usually am a fan of adding to threads (like someone did recently with Fate/Stay) instead of starting a new one. Of course mods can merge threads if they want to, so I guess there is no harm done with starting yet another Gundam Seed thread. |
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Viga_of_stars
Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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What? It was less than 5 eps of the newbies before the olders came in wasn't it. It didn't take that long because the junius seven thing happened early in destiny. |
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SharinganEye
Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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Erm, I should've clarified: active role.
It's been a while since I watched SEED Destiny. |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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Hint: Do a search of Nagisa's posts with search term "Destiny", and optionally, "SEED" with it.
Here is a good one to start with. |
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Viga_of_stars
Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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Looks like I got some reading to do! Thanks. |
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mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
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I watch Destiny on YTV and I like it, but Seed is way better. For one, sequels are usually never as good as the original and Destiny proves it. The story is now about new characters that aren't insteresting and look exactly like the old ones. Took me a while to spot the differences between Stella and Cagalli, and Meer and Lacus. Those are only two examples of characters looking similar to the original. (Shinn is just Kira with different hair and eye colours, Meyrin Hawke looks like Flay and has pretty much the same name as Miriallia Haw) I agree, Lunamaria is the only interesting new character but her name sound like a twelve year old named her. Also, the storyline is ripped off from the original (bad guy wearing mask, has the same hair while someone on the good side can sense him) but isn't nearly as interesting. The original had so many plot twists and the plot wasn't predicatable (amazing story), but Destiny's plot wasn't as great. Maybe it's because you've seen the sequel first that you didn't mind it, but from Seed to Destiny there is a difference.
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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From the perspective of Gundam SEED fans who were anxiously awaiting SEED Destiny, it's a matter of extreme disappointment. In all the Newtype articles and various magazine and web interviews prior to Destiny's debut, we were promised a serious, sobering series where a new cast of characters (with only Athrun returning in a central role) took center stage in an ethnic conflict that would reflect real-world events of the time (not unlike the anime version of Fullmetal Alchemist, which had just concluded). What we actually GOT was about ten episodes of this, followed by mangled versions of SEED's returning characters (who we were told would likely not be appearing in Destiny, save for brief cameos
 ) taking over the show while the new cast was reduced to a second-rate troupe of background decorations, all acting out a lot of aimless fan-wank instead of any actual real, relevant story.
Beyond that, though, it's just a plain, bad show. The points at which the people producing it decided to make all their little shifts in direction (letting Kira take over, etc.) were painfully obvious and jarring, hardly any of SEED's loose ends were tied up (the nature of the SEED Factor and the random appearance of Newtypes in CE, most prominently), Destiny created a lot of its OWN loose ends (spoiler[how Mwu survived getting vaporized, how le Kreuze was involved in Durandal's nonsense]), numerous plot points were introduced and then inexplicably dropped (spoiler[Rey and Neo's Newtype connection, a plot point touted in Newtype about why Stella's EAF uniform has a ZAFT belt, Talia's child and ex-husband]), the returning SEED characters were horrifically mangled (Cagalli loses every last bit of her stubborn spunk, Athrun forgets everything he learned in SEED and becomes a gullible idiot all over again, Kira becomes Fukuda's all-correct, infallible self-insert character), the new cast are nonsensically rewritten at random (spoiler[Lunamaria's reaction to Shinn supposedly killing her sister being to GET HOT FOR HIM]), far too many of the new characters are outright neglected development-wise (Sting, Auel, Rey, Talia, Arthur, Djibril), there were more recap episodes and pointless filler episodes than the first SEED (three episodes until the conclusion and we have an episode where Meer and the Archangel crew...go to the mall and hang out?), the actual conflict in the series was horribly ill-defined and convoluted (spoiler[what starts out as Djibril's mysterious LOGOS organization framing ZAFT to spark another EAF/ZAFT war turns into some utterly stupid Durandal mad scientist DNA mind control plan, and surprisingly very little of this has any real bearing on the plot at all]), the plot as it was had severe pacing issues (we spend nearly twenty episodes with the Minerva in the Indian Ocean doing nothing of worth beyond repeating the same Freedom/Minerva/Orb battle three times with no discernible effect on anything...why?), and there was a ridiculously one-sided victory for the good guys at the end that effectively repeats the ending of SEED with Lacus's faction single-handedly one-upping both the EAF and ZAFT. That's the bulk of the show's issues, but even that wasn't everything. Basically, what was setting up to be a serious, legitimate sequel ended up pulling a complete 180 and becoming a shameless excuse in fanservice and writer/director/popstar self-insertion. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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The original Gundam SEED was a miserable pile of trash to begin with, and had all the elements that made Destiny bad, but somehow Destiny is the show that's more reviled, because people seem to think that the main protagonist they showed in what must've been less than ten scenes in the first eighteen episodes had some potential to be a good one. But the reality is, Kira replacing Shinn Asuka as main protagonist was the best move Fukuda ever made - Shinn Asuka was nothing but a whining, crying, unsympathetic imbecile from day one and had none of the charisma that Kira Yamato had (and that's saying a lot, since Kira barely had any to keep him afloat as sympathetic in the original SEED). Never had I felt so little for a boy who'd lost his family in a war. He was always lashing out at Orb, even though they were the only ones whose position made any sense (at least, until Cagalli's "boyfriend" got involved). However, Destiny at it's best was far better than the original SEED ever was - never before had I liked Kira or Athrun, but then they suddenly became likable, but maybe only in comparison to the totally flavorless Minerva crew. Unfortunately, Destiny at its worst was worse than anything in the original SEED.
Another thing is, everything is so clear cut - the guys who don't want Coordinators around are evil, the Coorindators are good. But that doesn't make any sense in reality. If some thousands of test tube superhumans engineered to be superior to you in every way were floating above you in giant metal objects with posession of super weapons, how would you feel? I would want them eradicated, too, especially if the average Coordinator finds Lacus Clyne and Meer Campbell to be inspiring. Any culture that allows a pop music star to dictate policy is one that should be wiped out. If they had made a faction of Blue Cosmos that was actually dedicated to this ideal, and weren't just controlled by weapons dealers who wanted to fan the flames of war for money, then I could have some respect for them. Predictable plot structure, reused animation, terrible cookie-cutter character/mecha designs, and clip episodes make the CE era of Gundam shows quite possibly the worst abomination of the entire franchise. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I've seen volumes 1-9 of the DVDs so far of Gundam Seed Destiny (episodes 1-38) and so far I have no issues with it. It's been extremely entertaining so far. The original Gundam Seed is one of my favorite Gundam series personally right behind Zeta Gundam, 0083, and 08th MS Team.
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11294 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I highly recommend you read the thread I started on SEED/Destiny. Nagisa brings up some very good points, and I after having finished SEED, I completely understood his and many other people's reasoning. Some of the posts may seem long-winded and overwhelming, but feel free to revive the thread if you want to keep all of the information and opinions centered with some kind of source material to work from (i.e. our previous comments). It will also save some of us the trouble of re-typing stuff  .
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