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NEWS: ADV Takes Over Geneon's Sales, Marketing, Distribution


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informant2



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Invader_Spooch wrote:


... but making their fans happy and developing a relationship with the customer would encourage repeat business moreso, and they just fail at that, which part of that can be blamed on their marketing department etc.


Yeah... Rolling Eyes
I bet you have no idea that the entire geneon marketing department consists of 2 people... Rolling Eyes
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:02 pm Reply with quote
starcade wrote:
Kruszer wrote:

Geneon can't possibly be going under or anything with all the trainloads of money they're making from awesome stuff like Black Lagoon, Ergo Proxy, Fate/Stay Night, When They Cry, Hellsing Ultimate, etc, so that can't be it. I wonder if we're going to see a merger or something soon.


I think that's what this just about amounts to -- a merger. I mean, Geneon might try for a time to continue, but why would the Japanese want to talk to Geneon when it's clear they're going to be dealing with ADV anyway.


Because then Dentsu would be left out of the cut all together, and why would they want that when they could be the license holder via proxy without giving up their foothold. And given ADVs stance on staying fairly independent and private I don't think they would accept being absorbed by Dentsu. And I am pretty sure that if ADV bought the remainder of Geneon, that they couldn't do so with out giving up some of there independence.

Japanese companies will stop dealing with Geneon only when Geneon's bids become laughably low.

Of course even then I don't think they would go away since they could only go after the cheap titles and/or niche shows. But that would only happen if they really tank, and I would think if that happened, that home office Tokyo would bail them out so they could afford newer shows. At least for a while. Also I think they are a long way from that point anyway. And hopefully that point will never be reached, because in the end it means less variety, and quantity.
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inthebiz



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 34
Location: Burbank, CA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Porcupine wrote:

inthebiz wrote:
As more and more individual titles "under perform", licensors are hardballing the MG's, forcing licensors (?), many of whom do not want to give up (even money-losing) market share, to pay more up-front.
Did you mean to say "licensees" instead of "licensors" in the part of your quote where I put a question mark?

Yes! Sorry for the confusion, but you are correct to assume that is what I meant. It's a busy life, didn't read it over as well as I thought. Thanks Porcupine.
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inthebiz



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 34
Location: Burbank, CA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Just realized that I left out a comparison price for 2006 in my previous post! Boy, my head was not in it when I wrote those...
i should have included...
inthebiz wrote:

Actually the average cost from boards thru paint and rendering has increased in real terms only by about 25 - 30%, when you factor in inflation.
e.g. The USD conversion cost of producing in the early 90s, was approx. $115,000 - $125,000 per ep.
edit: My understanding is the 2006 average per episode cost for anime ranged $150,000 - $160, 000.
Both sets of numbers are adjusted, relevant dates, for the Yen FX curve 01/1994 thru 07/2006.


Again, sorry for any confusion you may have had when reading it. I'll edit my original post to reflect it too.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1676
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:03 pm Reply with quote
inthebiz wrote:
edit: My understanding is the 2006 average per episode cost for anime ranged $150,000 - $160, 000.


Ah, I was wondering if I was missing something there.

I'd heard the cost is closer to $300,000 per ep., but I may have heard that from a more expensive production house.

-J
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:34 pm Reply with quote
informant2 wrote:
Invader_Spooch wrote:


... but making their fans happy and developing a relationship with the customer would encourage repeat business moreso, and they just fail at that, which part of that can be blamed on their marketing department etc.


Yeah... Rolling Eyes
I bet you have no idea that the entire geneon marketing department consists of 2 people... Rolling Eyes


Of course not, that kind of information isn't going to be available to people outside of the company.

So, what all does the marketing department consist of and handle? I would imagine it handles creating the ads and getting them to websites and magazines, but I'm curious what all it entails. If they were also involved in the trailers, well, that would certainly explain why most of them were just the opening. Two people certainly sounds like a really low number, especially for a company as significant as Geneon.
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Siegel Clyne



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 177
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Below is a (rough) translation of a section from a news flash article, "Kadokawa Shoten Group, etc. -- Animation (Anime) Fanbase [in Japan] Shifts to YouTube and Internet File Sharing," appearing in the September 4, 2007 issue of Economist, a Japanese weekly business magazine published by THE MAINICHI NEWSPAPERS.

(When the September 11, 2007 issue of Economist comes out within a week or so, the September 4, 2007 issue can be found in the back issue (back number) section of the Economist website.)

For animation (anime) up to now, the business model usually was securing fans with television broadcasting, and recouping production costs with DVD sales.

For the past 1-2 years, however, DVD sales have been sluggish, and the number of works that can clear the line -- a series average of 10,000 copies is referred to as a break-even point -- has decreased.

Besides the spread of the hard disc recorder in which one can enjoy high resolution images comparable to the average DVD at home, there is also rampant (illegal) downloading off the Net.

Also, television time slots for children's animation (kodomo no anime) are becoming less popular, and the trend [for animation (anime) telecasts] continues to shift from prime time (golden time) to late night, from key commercial television stations to UHF television stations and BS [broadcasting satellite] / CS [communications satellite] broadcasts.

If it is the case that broadcast time slots for animation (anime) on key commercial television stations are decreasing further this fall [fall of 2007], then opportunities for animation (anime) to reach wide audiences will keep decreasing.

GDH CEO Shinchiro Ishikawa (Ishikawa Shin'ichirou) says, "It [the animation (anime) business] faces a transition period similar to the time when the music business shifted from CD sales to Internet delivery."

Economist 2007.9.4


Among other things, how does what's happening to the anime business in Japan affect the anime business in North America? (And, for that matter, anime businesses around the world?)

P.S. Among other possible exceptions, the "traditional" business model described above for anime in Japan seems not to apply to children's character sales giants like Soreike! Anpanman and the Pretty Cure series (the latter have sold hardly at all on DVD in Japan), but make tons more money on toys and other merchandise, copyright licenses, etc., than any late night anime ever will make in overall sales.
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JBailey



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:42 pm Reply with quote
starcade wrote:


I mean, for me, I have no trouble calling Geneon minor because they are so far behind the Big Three.

In fact, as I just said above, I'd be surprised if, in the very near future, there were more than the three companies having meaningful market shares at all.

I see this as the first shoe in a consolidation -- ADV wins because they get to market a whole series of new titles which might get them a lot closer to Funi, especially when Geneon just comes into the fold and merges.

(Note: When, NOT if...)


Cumulative Number of "Anime" Releases since 1997 from the DVD Release Report 8/31/2007 compiled by Ralph Tribbey:

ADV 892
Pioneer/Geneon 712
Funimation 464
Bandai 411
Media Blasters 381
Viz 316
CPM 300
RightStuf 118
Manga 89

This does not include non-Anime titles released by these companies. It does not include SKUs that have been discontinued (ie. the Viz titles formerly released by Pioneer/Geneon).
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starcade



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:42 pm Reply with quote
JBailey wrote:
starcade wrote:


I mean, for me, I have no trouble calling Geneon minor because they are so far behind the Big Three.

In fact, as I just said above, I'd be surprised if, in the very near future, there were more than the three companies having meaningful market shares at all.

I see this as the first shoe in a consolidation -- ADV wins because they get to market a whole series of new titles which might get them a lot closer to Funi, especially when Geneon just comes into the fold and merges.

(Note: When, NOT if...)


Cumulative Number of "Anime" Releases since 1997 from the DVD Release Report 8/31/2007 compiled by Ralph Tribbey:

ADV 892
Pioneer/Geneon 712
Funimation 464
Bandai 411
Media Blasters 381
Viz 316
CPM 300
RightStuf 118
Manga 89

This does not include non-Anime titles released by these companies. It does not include SKUs that have been discontinued (ie. the Viz titles formerly released by Pioneer/Geneon).


Just becaused a company puts out a trillion different DVDs doesn't mean any of them are good.

You just actually made my point, even though I was mistaken on the fact that Geneon was #3 in market share.

Look at Funi's number that you posted, and understand how much they are kicking everyone's a$$ in market share.

QED.
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:17 pm Reply with quote
QED my butt. starcade it is YOUR claims and illogical arguments that fail to make any sense whatsoever.

starcade doesn't know what he is talking about. QED Wink
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JBailey



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Just becaused a company puts out a trillion different DVDs doesn't mean any of them are good.

You just actually made my point, even though I was mistaken on the fact that Geneon was #3 in market share.

Look at Funi's number that you posted, and understand how much they are kicking everyone's a$$ in market share.


Funimation started their releases with DBZ. Pioneer launched DBZ on Laserdisc, VHS and DVD. Pioneer broke ground for them. Same with Tenchi.

Talk quality, look at the history, Pioneer/Geneon released quality. Akira, Sailor Moon, Trigun, Hellsing, KKM, Appleseed, Samurai Champloo, Gankutsuou, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon.

Pioneer/Geneon launched Pokemon in the US. Pioneer/Geneon distributed Bandai and Viz before they went out on their own. Think of where the US Anime market be now without all of the work that Pioneer did in the 90's!

First company to commit to Digi (OK you guys didn't like that, so they stopped). First company worldwide to package DVD in a metal case (Akira). Released Anime on DVD in 1997 (Where was everyone else then?).

I think that Thank You would be more appropriate.
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zrdb



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 617
Location: Who-me? Am I supposed to be somewhere?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:14 pm Reply with quote
I talked to Greg Ayres at Nan Desu Kan last weekend and he said we'll know all on Oct.1 about this train wreck waiting to happen. What I was able to get from him is that evidently Geneon had a 5 year plan when the brought Pioneer and if at the end of that time it wasn't profitable enough they were gonna dump it.
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Keonyn
Moderator


Joined: 25 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:36 am Reply with quote
Alright, to some of the people who've replied, and I won't name names specifically, in this thread let's keep things clean and I don't want to see "you're wrong and I'm right" kinds of replies. If you're not adding to the discussion then don't post. This is a discussion, not a playground argument; there's no reason to fire back and forth if it does nothing for the discussion at hand. If you have nothing more to add than that then leave the discussion to those that do or let it drop to the bottom of the forum having served its purpose.
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