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Hey, Answerman! [2007-09-07]


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nishime



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:07 am Reply with quote
[quote="Cephus"]
britannicamoore wrote:

Quote:
You've got to map out a plot to your story, you've got to figure out the best way to decribe the charcters so people can see them as you envisioned- it goes on and on. In my creative writers workshop we were given a list of chracters (from a book we had perviously read) and told we had to write a 30 page story based off these charcters (like we were writing the sequal to a book) conveying their personalities. In short- we had to write fanfiction based off another persons story.


But you don't have to do any of that in a fanfic story. The characters already exist, someone else created them, you don't have to make them 'live' for the audience, they already know what they're getting. The same for the world, you're writing in someone else's playground, everyone knows what to expect. Anyone writing fanfic has 80% of the work done for them going into it.
.


And yet, even so, many authors (probably famous for their original work) find it worthwhile to write, for instance, Sherlock Holmes "fanfic". I read a book of short stories written by people such as Isaac Asimov that were all, in one way or another, fanfic specifically set in the world created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. I'm sure they must have gotten paid. I'm equally sure they weren't writing to scenarios by the author. They just really liked Sherlock Holmes and wanted to tell more stories about him and his surroundings, sometimes in extremely AU moments. I remember a really Cthulu-style one, sort of a Doyle / Lovecraft crossover.

Carole Nelson Douglas has a series of books with Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler. Mostly Irene Adler, which is roughly the equivalent of taking someone who appeared in one episode and writing a 400 chapter fanfic about their life. But she's not the only one to do it. Laurie R. King has a series also starring Sherlock Holmes, but with an original character as the female costar. And she may well be a Mary Sue, because anyone more perfectly suited for him in a female body, I have yet to encounter.

Heck, even Pride and Prejudice has got recent books with the two of them acting as detectives (apparently, since it was in the mystery section, but I can't actually remember the author or title, so believe it or not as you like. My friend didn't believe it, and she was there). And straightforward "sequel" novels too, such as "Darcy and Elizabeth" (except I think there are a multitude of others. The attractions of sources you don't have to pay royalties to...). And retellings of P&P from different viewpoints, if the blurb for the Pamela Aidan books are correct (haven't read them).

I agree that 99% of everything on fanfiction.net is crap. But equally, not all fanfiction writers are amateurs. Be fair. Admittedly, it seems like it takes a good 100 years post publication for the fanfic to be published, but that's probably just copyright issues. Who knows? In a hundred years (or whenever the copyright on Naruto runs out) you too may find "Hidden Leaf : Tenten's bloody footprint" gracing the mystery shelves in a paperback original. Very Happy
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Neverwhere



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 351
Location: socal
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:19 am Reply with quote
nishime wrote:

They just really liked Sherlock Holmes and wanted to tell more stories about him and his surroundings, sometimes in extremely AU moments. I remember a really Cthulu-style one, sort of a Doyle / Lovecraft crossover.


That would be the award winning short story A Study in Emerald, by my favourite author (and creative genius) Neil Gaiman Smile
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:15 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
The Xenos wrote:
As much as you may love writing, don't quit your day job. This would be why I decided to bank more on my interest in science as a trade.

In fact, that's even worse as a trade. Do you know why Chinese and Indian foreign students fill up basic science graduate schools that offer scholarships / assistantships?


Nothing against the green card Chinese and Indian students.. but..



THEY TOOK OUR JERBS!

Hell, screw post-grad jobs. I had trouble finding temp jobs on campus because of all the Indian students flooding in.

Though also I see science as more of a job and writing as something I'd rather do as a hobby rather than a job. Same with photography. Though I sucked too much at drawing, but I do also dabble in graphics and helping friends who can draw.

Neverwhere wrote:
nishime wrote:

They just really liked Sherlock Holmes and wanted to tell more stories about him and his surroundings, sometimes in extremely AU moments. I remember a really Cthulu-style one, sort of a Doyle / Lovecraft crossover.


That would be the award winning short story A Study in Emerald, by my favourite author (and creative genius) Neil Gaiman Smile


Neil Gaiman writing Doyle's Holmes in an HP Lovecraft setting? Gaiman. Holmes. Cthulhu. WHY HAVEN"T I READ THIS?!

edit - Oh wait. He posted it on his site for free. How nice.
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Jen526



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 124
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:53 am Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:
I almost bust out laughing as I never thought the slash communities went that far back. Then again in the art room there was an older woman drawing Kirk / Spock art.


LOL. Smile Yeah, Kirk/Spock is generally considered to be the earliest "official"-ish slash fandom. Which kinda makes sense, considering the size and scope of Trek fandom... IDIC, indeed. Smile
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Cephus



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 139
Location: Redlands, CA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:39 pm Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:
The same can be said for fanart then- the chracter, the clothes, the hair stytles have all been laid out for you. So why is it ok for those to be sold at cons and not fanfiction?


Who says they should be sold at cons? The simple fact remains, these are copyrighted characters that you're drawing or writing about and as such, should never be sold for profit.
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eyesopen0791



Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 108
Location: A Sleepy Town in California
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:42 pm Reply with quote
nishime wrote:

And yet, even so, many authors (probably famous for their original work) find it worthwhile to write, for instance, Sherlock Holmes "fanfic". I read a book of short stories written by people such as Isaac Asimov that were all, in one way or another, fanfic specifically set in the world created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. I'm sure they must have gotten paid. I'm equally sure they weren't writing to scenarios by the author. They just really liked Sherlock Holmes and wanted to tell more stories about him and his surroundings, sometimes in extremely AU moments. I remember a really Cthulu-style one, sort of a Doyle / Lovecraft crossover.

Heck, even Pride and Prejudice has got recent books with the two of them acting as detectives (apparently, since it was in the mystery section, but I can't actually remember the author or title, so believe it or not as you like. My friend didn't believe it, and she was there). And straightforward "sequel" novels too, such as "Darcy and Elizabeth" (except I think there are a multitude of others. The attractions of sources you don't have to pay royalties to...). And retellings of P&P from different viewpoints, if the blurb for the Pamela Aidan books are correct (haven't read them).


Some authors can get away with it because (1) they have an established track record of being good, recognizable, original published authors (2) a publisher is willing to publish their re-imagination on already established fictional worlds like your example of Sherlock Holmes.

The reasons why there are Pride and Prejudice sequel novels are because (1) Jane Austen is dead (let's see, 190 years dead). (2) it seems her descendants have allowed the copyright to elapse, so that her works have become public domain. Here's the link to copyright law, which seems to imply that works created after 1978 have a copyright forever. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html#duration Also, it's important to note that just because someone wrote a Jane Austen sequel that it also takes a publisher who's interested in publishing it and believing it will make a profit.

More thoughts on fanfic, sorry, long, but hey not quite said here yet:

For those of you who have dreams that fanfic writing could possibly lead to a career as a published author, I give you an example: Laura Ann Gilman. Here is her bibliography. http://www.sff.net/people/lauraanne.gilman/new_bookshelf_3.htm Laura Gilman wrote and had published 2 Buffy books that were published and then 5 years later wrote and has published her own original fantasy novels, of which are 2 separate series that are both currently ongoing. I’ve read some books in her Retrievers series, and I found them pretty nifty, what with the unusual urbane Russian American protagonist and a short demon who physically looks like a polar bear.

Speaking only of me, I like fanfiction, but let me tell you why. I just enjoy reading it from time to time. I’m a fan of some series, and fanfic is a way to read alternative stories of those series. It seems to me one way for fans to express that they really like a series. I don’t care to read yaoi/yuri/slash though, but hey if it floats your boat, I’m not against your freedom to write it.

What’s cool about fanfic writing is that it has been another way for people to practice creative writing, when that method didn’t exist before fanfic came around (a long, but not so long time ago). The danger in fanfic writing is that some people start to believe their writing is as good as original and published writing. It’s not. It’s not because the originality element has been skipped in the writing process. Look, if you’ve been writing fanfic for awhile and you’re writing chapters and chapters and stories of more than 100 pages of a favorite character doing somethng, you need to dump the fanfic writing and write original fiction because now the fanfic has become a crutch to your creative writing.
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Cephus



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 139
Location: Redlands, CA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:52 pm Reply with quote
eyesopen0791 wrote:
For those of you who have dreams that fanfic writing could possibly lead to a career as a published author, I give you an example: Laura Ann Gilman.


And that part is great, if you can write something that catapults you into being a professional author, that's fantastic, but until you actually *ARE* a professional author, you're still just writing fanfic.

Quote:
Speaking only of me, I like fanfiction, but let me tell you why. I just enjoy reading it from time to time. I’m a fan of some series, and fanfic is a way to read alternative stories of those series. It seems to me one way for fans to express that they really like a series. I don’t care to read yaoi/yuri/slash though, but hey if it floats your boat, I’m not against your freedom to write it.


I'm not against it either, I'm just against people acting like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's one thing to write an actual novel and get it published and put in book stores, it's another to two-finger type out a cheesy fan story about someone else's characters and post it on fanfiction.net. There is a definite difference between the two and it's just overactive ego on the part of the fanfiction writer who claims otherwise.

The same would be true of some fan artist drawing gay Naruto porn demanding to be seen on the same level as Picasso. Sorry, but no way in hell.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Sure, fanfic is fun. Well, it can be. It can also be painful as well as terrible yet fun in its terribleness. Though to consider it as legitimate writing or story telling? You're deluding yourself and not helping yourself as an attempted or wannabe writer.

Personally, I enjoy parody ones in particular. Lampooning and parody are some of the few ones I accept as a legit separate form. Just look at Weird Al. No, not the AMVs, the guy himself.

Also, aside from Trek slash, if you look back even further, you find the old Tiajuana Bibles. Blatant pornographic bootleg comics. This predates any porn doujinshi I know of by decades. It's hilarious to think that our grandparents generation were making these smutty smutty comics that totally ripped off famous toons and celebrities.

http://www.amazon.com/Tijuana-Bibles-Americas-Forbidden-1930s-1950s/dp/0684834618

So next time you see Naruto characters having sex with each other or a comic of Kiera Knightly having sex with Davy Jones, know that stuff like that isn't new. There has been such things around over half a century.
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eyesopen0791



Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 108
Location: A Sleepy Town in California
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Cephus wrote:
I'm not against it either, I'm just against people acting like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's one thing to write an actual novel and get it published and put in book stores, it's another to two-finger type out a cheesy fan story about someone else's characters and post it on fanfiction.net. There is a definite difference between the two and it's just overactive ego on the part of the fanfiction writer who claims otherwise.

I said the exact same thing in the last sentences of my post. Quoted, "The danger in fanfic writing is that some people start to believe their writing is as good as original and published writing. It’s not. It’s not because the originality element has been skipped in the writing process. Look, if you’ve been writing fanfic for awhile and you’re writing chapters and chapters and stories of more than 100 pages of a favorite character doing somethng, you need to dump the fanfic writing and write original fiction because now the fanfic has become a crutch to your creative writing."
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