Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-09-07]
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writerpatrick
 Posts: 671 Location: Canada |
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The ironic thing about most "American" animation that has above average standards is that it doesn't come from America. Much of it comes from Canada, France and other countries. Totally Spies and Martin Mystery are from a French company, Marathon. I believe Winx comes from Italy's Rainbow. And Storm Hawks comes from Canada's Nerd Corps. (In fact much of what's considered American TV animation is produced Canada.)
WB is about the only real American company doing any anime-like animation. |
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Cowboy Cadenza
Posts: 243 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY |
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What I found ironic about that question is that it seems like the reader was assuming that all anime has a similar art style, which is completely not true. Look at something like Bokurano or Witch Hunter Robin and compare it to Air or Kanon. The character designs are way different - compared to most anime, Witch Hunter Robin and Bokurano's characters have some of the smallest eyes I've ever seen in an anime. Then, look at something like Shin-chan. While I hate the animation in that show personally, you have to admit there's nothing else out there that's quite the same. /rant |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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And those would be...? AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER is probably the best ever "American anime" and it's done by Nickelodeon. |
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DRWii
 Posts: 636 |
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I was kind of surprised at the "fan" statement, but the explanation cleared things up. Good thing I didn't plan to make anime my job after all!
Though I don't know why I was surprised; I mean, if I read a review of something on a proffesional site (like this one), I don't think of them as a fan of the show or a hater of it. Maybe closer to a third-party?
...Weirdness overload. Does not compute. Reboot brain. The only American show I can remember watching that was influenced by anime was "Teen Titans," (I don't have cable, y'see) and I liked that. The anime influence is pretty obvious, but I think most of the recurring character designs appear American overall. I'd say it did a good job combining Western and Eastern animation. I think I'm one of the few people who normally watch dubs with the subtitiles on (even though it's annoying for shows like "Basilisk"). I've watched a dub without the subs two or three times (counting by series), and it just felt...weird.
*Laughs* Oh, there's no need to go that far; just a few sarcastic jibes will appease us, I'm sure (but feel free to include them  ).
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SalarymanJoe
 Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
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I was irked by the same one, but for some reason, my lack-of-coffee brain this morning was immediately thinking of the Japanese staff, what with the stream of sub-par television quality production only to be later cleaned up for DVD. I even took the translator's comment from a different perspective and I didn't even think Audrea was talking about the American industry in point 1. In fact, practically everything Audrea said in her reply to the Answerfan question, to me, smacks not just of elitism but elitism by way of ignorance (the worst kind of elitism)! As I interpreted her statement to reference the Japanese industry at first, I thought she meant that Japanese staff should focus more on frame by frame copies of an original work, rather than an adaption based upon another work. What really got my goat was what she said about translators:
So - since I'm only on cup two at this point - you want translators to not only create a comprehensible version in another language (their job) but you want them to also go through and illustrate "underlying meanings and fundamental concepts of the authors work"? Sounds like someone wants to be spoon-fed but still sound "intellectual". Do you know that different people can interpret things differently, or, that not all anime have some sort of intellectual component to them? It's a waste of time, not just on the translator's part in discerning differences between creator's, scripter's, director's visions of the series and general fan-wank, but also for viewers of an entertainment product. Those sorts of conversations and ideas should be left up to the hardcore fans, high-level staff and anyone masochistic enough to ask. Moving on to Audrea's second point, this is where I see her elitism fueled by ignorance (remember, it's the worst kind!). Pointing to the drastic changes in the 4Kids production of ONE PIECE and seemingly treating them as the norm shows a lack of knowledge about how the industry generally operates. Finally, Audrea said a few things here that really got me wound up -
While promoting general interest is beneficial to them, most importantly, they need to focus on turning profit. Also, I'm against "industry getting together", let alone get together to agree. I'm rarely anti-corporate but when companies who should be competing get together and sing kumbaya, I start to feel a little uneasy as a consumer.
It's animation (which is a medium) and any way you stereotype it, you're going to leave someone out or make someone mad. I could say that anime is "science fiction giant robots in space" and I upset the "magical girls with big eyes, small mouthes, and short skirts" crowd and everyone tries to alienate the Japornimation crowd when trying to have a civil discussion with someone who may not be in the know. I have the perfect way to get the word out about what anime really is: they're Japanese cartoons.
So? Talk to a heroin addict and they'll say that the high they get is the best feeling ever. For all I know, it could be the truth but I'm not really all that interested in picking it up and trying. To some people, the idea of watching a cartoon - let alone a foreign cartoon - into their teens and adulthood just isn't appealing. It's the same reason that it's hard for me to read normal fiction books save for a few genres and authors. Am I worse off because of it? Arguably, I could be but I don't see it that way - the time not spent/wasted reading Wuthering Heights can be spent reading some of my InfoSec books, history books, or maybe even watching a Japanese cartoon or two. Are people worse off for shrugging off anime? I wouldn't say they're missing much if they wouldn't be interested in the first place. But let's get into the misconceptions, too. Some of these misconceptions can hurt the growth of the industry and fandom. Not to drudge up a sore subject, but Zac has said repeatedly that the emergence of a very vocal minority in the lolicon crowd. Substantiated by fact, the industry in the UK was nearly killed and fans have until recently suffered a great stigma because of what I term Japornimatoin. Misconceptions are dangerous and it's one thing to get one from browsing a shelf of available titles (ie, when the shelves are mostly cartoon porn) but a lot of times the fans themselves are just as responsible. Not only should the industry be working for a wider potential sales market (more mainstream-appeal titles, striving for the highest quality translations and dubbing, and much, much more profit) but fans should stop the idiocy that gives many anime fans a bad name. Sure, you can laugh at people who have their weddings done in Klingon or talk about the merits of homosexual relationships between furry-footed Hobbits but even to the mainstream, outside spectator these seem to be fringe groups. But when the creepy guy who watches cartoon porn and companies license Kodomo no Jikan/Nymphet or whatever the child porn flavor of the month is, anime fans should be revolted and distance themselves from it as much as possible. I've gone on enough but I've still got one more thing: Fanfic$. I'll agree that everything Zac brought up is spot on; lack of royalties to creators who deserve them and trying to recoup costs sounds like trying to get into a shady business. Not to mention that I've never read a fanfic I'd pay money for, even the one I hold in very high regard. If the questioner is interested in printing fanfics into bound versions to allow for much easer transportation then I'd say either eat the cost on your elaborate desktop publishing scheme, or what I did in my youth, a couple cheap binders from Staples, a three whole punch, and a couple reams of paper. I used to do that for a fanfic or two that I would read and I'd also keep some spare paper in there to scribble some ramblings I myself would call 'fanfic', too. |
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jetz
 Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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That's your opinion. I didn't even say the Marathon shows were better than Avatar. 
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fuuma_monou
Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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No, but it did seem like you were saying that it was as BAD as the Marathon shows. |
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Anime World Order
 Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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I think this is the second time I didn't write in because "oh, everyone else already thinks what I'm going to write anyway" and then the posted results suggest that an insiginificant amount of people shared my viewpoint. That so many people were saying "man, they need to release anime UNEDITED!" struck me as strange considering that nearly all the anime released on DVD is indeed uncut, until it dawned on me that most people are watching TV broadcasts.
So, here's the one thing I would change about the way anime is handled and released in the US, and it's just as unfeasible as broadcasting everything uncut on TV: sell anime by the season just like how every single other television show that gets sold on DVD is released. I'm talking box sets where you get at least 13-26 episodes a shot, unless of course the series is shorter than that. I want the whole "one disc at a time, with 3-5 episodes per disc" thing to be largely over and done with, and I think a lot of people agree with me since a growing number of people hold off on buying shows because they'd rather just wait for the box sets. There's a number of reasons why this isn't going to actually happen, but they should at least do this for longer series (say, greater than 26 episodes). Seeing 15+ volumes of Hajime no Ippo/Fighting Spirit lined up in a row on the shelf looks much more intimidating to people who've never seen the show than the same 15+ discs packaged in two collections. Not that anyone would actually SEE that many volumes of Fighting Spirit together on account that most brick and mortar stores wouldn't carry it after a point.
Why are you even telling me this? Did you just skip over the part where I prefaced it with "it's just as unfeasible as broadcasting everything uncut on TV" and said afterwards that "there's a number of reasons why this isn't going to actually happen"? The question was prefaced with "if you could change anything." Given the hypothetical "what if?" scenario presented, what I stated above is precisely what I would change. That doesn't mean I'm not going to continue saying "they should have released it in sets instead of one disc at a time" over and over though, especially with regards to lengthier series not selling well. Last edited by Anime World Order on Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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Yet you have a misconception right there. Kodomo no Jikan is not child porn, it is a parody of the lolicon genre and never had a sex scene with any of the child characters. It maybe be risque, but it's no more "child porn" than Negima. Honestly. As much as I don't like lolicon/shotacon, doesn't mean that the company shouldn't publish it. We publish already morally amibiguous titles, what is one more? Negima is pretty much has no qualms to put Negi in accidental sexual situations, but no one complains about it and it's a very popular title and most likely will get the anime industry in trouble than KoJika because of that. The industry IS actually doing what you think. If anything, titles that have mainstream appeal do get licensed first and have the most publicity. For example in the US, Naruto is a monster franchise right now, prolly on par with the popularity of Dragonball Z 8-10 years ago. If you notice, the mainstream titles usually get a hefty amount of the pie. So it's not unusual that the industry will cater to the niche fans next, although, backing a niche title has a much higher probability of failure. At best, it's a miss or hit. I mean people complained about the emerging popularity of BL (boys' love) genre in America, but all it did was make it bring more fans or whatnot. Although I'm waiting for the real opponent of them to come forth soon. Maybe it'll break the misconception that anime is not for kids but for anyone. It's a medium on it's own.
Won't work. American TV shows get money from commericals and ratings and whatnot. Anime is not popular enough for that quite yet. Although Viz is doing something similar with Naruto and Prince of Tennis. But the industry makes its money from the inidividual DVDs, that's how we get boxsets as well. |
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Furudanuki
 Posts: 1874 |
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Regarding the Answerfan question - I wish that Zac had made it a requirement that anyone who writes to express their opinion of "moé anime" also include some sort of explanation as to how - based on their own understanding of the term - they would define "moé". There isn't anything like a firm concensus even among the hardcore Japanese fans, but based on the confusion and misconceptions I've seen expressed in the forums it would be helpful to know on exactly what foundation the writer is basing their opinon.
For the record, I find the term "moé anime" to be a bit of a misnomer in the first place. There may be variations in the exact meaning of moé, but they all boil down to the idea that moé is an emotion: it describes the way you feel about a particular character, not how you feel about the series as a whole. |
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Unholy_Nny
 Posts: 622 |
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w00t! Best answerman ever! And, why would they edit Naruto like that!? Sasuke getting skull[censor] has got to be the greatest thing evar! Also, that one guy who made that post that I'm currently too lazy to find was right. Most things normally considered anime-ripoff American cartoons are mostly from France. (I like to call it... "Frenchime". Mostly because that sounds cool. "Frenchime"... If I ever open a restaurant, I am going to name it that.) Last edited by Unholy_Nny on Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Dear s---. Is it too much to say American animation? Really really really hate when people say American anime or American manga even if it's in quotes. It's American animation and it's an Best American animation? You sure the f--- forget about Batman the Animated Series. Also, a few other 90s shows Gargoyles or Exo Squad stand out as being pretty well done for American animation, especially when the market is aimed at kids. Plus there are tons of other older examples, especially when you get back to the golden age like with the Fleischer studios back when cartoons were looked on as a more central form of entertainment. Never mind that Warners did such a good job that Japanese companies were imitating them. I love Big O, but it's far from original and blatantly knocks off Batman The Animated Series (among other things). I've run into some anime fans who thought Batman was done by the same studio that did Big O. -face palm- Backwards time universe! Seriously, that's so stupid, I just wanted to punch those saying it. Mind you, that includes a friend and current roomate. So all you damn kids today better wake up. American animation has been around long before Avatar. Oh and you damn kids better stay off my lawn. |
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Serenanna
Posts: 3 |
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::winces:: Long time reader, first time poster. I've been compelled to write in for the first time since my favorite topic of all time got brought up, fanfiction.
I'm one of those nuts that write it. Worst of all, I write erotic Naruto fanfiction. ::ducks the rotten veggies:: It's all het, I swear! Before I get killed for being a freak (hah), I think there's a few misconceptions in the discussion that are being spread about fics in general and on the people that write them. To most authors serious about what they write, myself included, writing fanfiction isn't about anything else but passion. That's it, that's the key, passion, for either writing and storytelling in general or for the property we write for. We do it because we love it, much like anyone else in fandom in general. This is, of course, only speaking for those actually serious about writing fanfiction, not particularly those writers with only a passing interest, or glory hounds latching onto it to make a name for themselves. See, that's part of the beauty and problems of fanfiction, anyone can write it! . . . And anyone can write it, even those that don't know past tense from future present. It doesn't require a creative writing degree to be a fanfiction author, but if you understand storytelling and write clearly in English, you can at least write a readable piece. Personally, my experience just came from sitting there and writing because I wanted to, story after story. Word comes with just about ever PC anyway, so I could write all day and share my fics with whomever I wanted. You just have to be a fan of what you want to write about. Even published authors sometimes write fanfiction, like best-seller Mercedes Lackey. She wrote for the MMORPG City of Heroes. So, why not write original stories? Well, think of it this way, coming up with something 100% original is hard, very hard. There's not just plot and characters to consider, but the world, the culture, the history, the very physics of a universe to make a story seem that alive. In fanfiction, the building blocks are already there. There's a base knowledge of the main plot, the world, and characters among the reader, giving the writer the freedom to skip so much exposition and get right to the point, to explore the details they want, to find answers those what if scenarios that make fanfiction worth exploring to some writers. And best of all, it's free. Fanfiction wouldn't exist if it weren't for free. Profit would destroy it since copyrights are such a legal grey area. There's currently a bill in Congress to make copyright violation a jail-able offense instead of just a civil matter. If made into a law, fanfiction for profit could get you jailed since it clear violates fair use. And honestly, most authors like being non-mainstream and non-published to avoid such potential legal problems. This is why there was such a backlash to a site known as FanLib back in the beginning of summer. It was founded by three people, including the ex-CEO of Yahoo, to be the MySpace of fanfiction. Post stories there and get free stuff like t-shirts, Amazon certificates . . . except a. you don't own your fic anymore, they do, and b. if you get in legal trouble, you're on your own. This was in their TOS, along with a tons of ads plastered everywhere on their tacky site and over the stories. The possibilities of this outside of anime fandom is that they could sell someone's story for CSI to CBS for an episode, and the original author would get nothing, not even a by line in the credits. Can't sue for plagiarism since by signing the TOS and posting the story, you're essentially giving it away. And of course, one of their selling points is just that, getting you in contact with the producers of what your write about via writing contests, so instead of actually paying actual guilded-writers, they can get fans to write shows for free. This is the sort of mess that happens when business tries to court fanfiction, why if it's for any amount of profit, the entire scheme of things change. Published fanfiction has been done before as well back in the dark ages before the internet, in fanzines back in the 70's for such things as Star Trek, but those were made by fans for fans for no profit and just handed out for free or sold for a few cents on the dollar, not in bound books. The way things are today, such undertakings aren't worth the risk to many authors. Money being made, even if it's a few cents, is like blood in the water for lawyers. It's all about maintaining the status quo anymore with regards to fanfiction since both camps don't want to file suits, ever. Fans don't wanna get slapped with C&D's and media companies don't want to alienate their fanbase. Anime fandom though is different in that it has a history of more tolerance if not encouragement for fan activities like doujin publishing, but it has it's own challenges to this idea. Anime is a niche market made up of individual niches as well, there's no clear super-ubiquitous series out there that all of anime fandom can agree on being number one. Potter fandom centers around just one set of text, Firefly around one short TV series, a movie, and a few comics. An average anime fan is not just a fan of one title, more like ten or more. To simplify, there's no clear hit to focus on and publish stories for. The biggest anime section on FF.net is Naruto, which elitists won't touch with ten foot-poles, so satisfying the majority of fans is impossible. There's also the fact that most of fanfiction prides itself to marching to the beat of it's own drum, be it angsty high-school AU, slash worlds where everyone's gay, or tentacle porn. While none of that would be shining examples of what fanfiction is and can be, it's what people always think of first. Yaoi and slash are the largest sub genres in fanfiction, for women by women, yet, last I checked, hetero still sells the most in romance novels, about the only favorable comparison when it comes to publish fiction. So, the point is, not only does published anime fanfiction have to worry about possible lawsuits, but the fandom in general is fragmented and thrives on individuality, not sell-ability. Fanfiction runs on the passion of fans. Really, how many of them are gonna want to write once it becomes a job and not a hobby? |
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Unholy_Nny
Posts: 622 |
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I personally prefer fun American cartoons over the serious action-y type things... Nothing done in America could ever surpass the original Tom and Jerry series. Nothing. Ever. (That's a matter of opinion, ofcourse)
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Fiction Alchemist
Posts: 438 |
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Deleted turbo stupidity.
Last edited by Fiction Alchemist on Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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