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ikillchicken wrote:

Well, If its a better product becuase of that, it is probably going to be more profitable. Ofcourse, I see your point and agree, its not going to make a huge difference. However, I wouldn't think that it would be a particularilly big deal to use a different studio either. Infact it might actually be easier because they wouldn't have to go through the process of casting and stuff all over again. Also, I'm talking about shows a company has already decided would be profitable to continue.

I think Hellsing Ultimate could be a good example of the concern surrounding cast changes should the property be handled by someone else other than Geneon. From what I've seen, a lot of people really like the New Generation cast, accents and all. Should the cast be replaced with all american voice actors, I'd bet dollars to donuts there would be massive outrage. Hell, from what I've also heard, there was a major fan driven movement to get Crispin Freeman back as Alucard for the OVA. Having him get replaced could be a major slap in the face to all those who had petitioned long and hard to Geneon to get him to reprise his role.

Will this affect profits? I don't know. It may go either way: the dub fans may protest and resist buying future releases because of the cast change while others will swallow their pride and buy them regardless of the change in cast. Personally, I would be very upset if the cast gets replaced but if the producers say that is that then there is nothing me or anyone else can do about it. That's business!

In this particular situation, I'm willing to hold out hope that the Hellsing Ultimate OVAs do continue to get released as before with no cast changes.

Conan-san wrote:

As I live in the land of the limeys and as such have no bearing of the US market. I at least feel some consolation that at the very least that MVM, pusher of Austrialan DVDs presented as thier own, is going to be left with Gonzo shows, most of which are utter tosh..

I do wonder what's going to happen to MVM now that they've lost one of their main suppliers.

psycho 101 wrote:

Of course Zac is going to shut his mouth. Pay close attention here pal. THEY CANNOT DIVULGE THIS INFORMATION. They can't say anything official. That would be spilling insider information and as I said before is of the lines of career suicide. Especially for a company priding itself on being the most RELIABLE anime news source. That credibility would go flying out the damn window. I have stated my own opinions in other threads actually so go look for yourself. I also unlike you and others am not jumping to any conclusions, and running my mouth like I know what's going on when I don't, until official word is released.

Then shut down the thread, because there's no point in continuing it.

There's three questions that most everyone is going to discuss:

What happened? They can't tell us.

Why? They can't tell us.

What's next? They can't tell us that neither.

There's no point in the thread if we're not at least given an idea of what went down -- they don't have to say the nitty-gritty.

We're getting it slowly now: Apparently, Dentsu is going to lose in the area of tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. (And why did Mitsubishi/d-rights get out of Geneon?) That's either horrific planning or something in their industry -- and then you get posts like that one guy's (which appears to openly desire the destruction that I am essentially predicting).

The thing is: Anything which we might want to discuss is going to be so damn hush-hush (and nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyahhhhhhhhhh) that there's no point having the thread if basically everything the discussion leads to is essentially classified.

I mean, Geneon is essentially slamming the door on all their titles and it's over unless they can actually become the type of company they desire to.

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

This is ALL OF OUR business, because (especially if it is due, for whatever stripe you want to toss on it, to massive over-speculation on the sales market of American anime) this ain't gonna be the last company to do this -- especially if what we're hearing from people in the news and in these threads is accurate.

(...)

What's going on is all anime fans' business because it's going to impact all of us. Period. If you can't get that through YOUR head (and you most certainly aren't alone!!), then I can't help you.

For starters you need to really wake up and come to the real world. In the real world everyone's personal affairs are not your business and you do not have a right to know them.

Unless the head of Dentsu lost a lot of face by sleeping with someone and getting caught (or something of that stripe), this isn't about personal affairs.

This is only the THIRD-LARGEST ANIME MARKET SHARE in the US market. This is a big business if the fans want to see anime survive and grow here. This is a large-scale blow to that effort.

psycho 101 wrote:

You may buy someone's product but that does not give you a right to be told of personal financial and business related matters.

That's what gets a lot of US consumers in trouble if it becomes clear that the company is going to leave them out in the lurch. It would appear (esp. in this day and age -- and this has little to do with just anime) that the relative health of a company would have bearing as to the choices consumers make regarding which products they will buy.

psycho 101 wrote:

So stop acting delusional like you have a right to know these things. None of us do. It is NOT our company and we are NOT employees or share holders. Even basic employees don't have a right to know. I suggest you grow up some and take some business courses first. Just because you buy their product does not give you a right to be told everything that they do and/or why they do it.

I could always say that the industry itself may need to grow up and take some business courses -- that's kinda been my point. Just because they're licensing fifty-leven titles and it's all over the shelves at Best Buy does not mean people like this one joker on the thread aren't downloading it and flipping off the industry, causing Dentsu and a lot of other people to lose their shirts.

And if that IS what is happening, you can kiss the current market model goodbye, because what's going to happen next is going to tie in with a lot of the same stuff with Odex and the Japanese gov't being called on to change the laws to go after both sides of the fansubber-downloader dynamic.

It's all interrelated, if that's the case. It's not going to make the anime community happy, and it's not going to be pretty. But we need to know that it's coming.

psycho 101 wrote:

And how do you know they won't be the last company to do it? You act like ADV and Funi are next.

If you'd talked to me a year ago, I'd have told you I had serious concerns about ADV. If DMC and the like don't sell well for them, then the concern might be back on the table. Concerns about Funi, at this point, are whether Navarre is going to go for another slice of Cannibalization Pie.

But if you didn't see this coming, nor think that other companies of lesser relevance than Geneon won't be next, then I'd like to know what rose-colored glasses you (and a lot of other people, do not get me wrong) are operating with. I may need a couple pair.

psycho 101 wrote:

This is not the end of the anime world so stop with the doomsayer crap. You have no idea how the other companies are doing so how do you know they're going to fall too? You don't so don't act like you do.

OK, you're in freaking denial. I don't know how much more I can say to you at that point.

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

Then they honestly should think about what threads they really want to continue or cut off -- as I told Zac earlier.

They report the news, they don't make the threads buddy. Each news article is subject to having a thread created but they're not the ones doing it. Except on rare occasions. So you're wrong there.

Then that really needs to be re-evaluated. If every article gets a thread, then it's open and fair game for discussion -- whereever that discussion might lead.

psycho 101 wrote:

I don't dispute it's big news but just because one company falls does NOT mean others will. It could be totally unrelated to your little fansub tirade. As mentioned countless times you have no idea, along with the rest of us, why they are folding. For Christ's sake for all we know the heads could've lost millions of dollars in a high stakes Las Vegas poker match. The point is noone knows so while suggesting theories is one thing it's quite another to go on and on and on and on about how the anime industry is doomed which is mostly what you're doing. And using this to further your own apparent crusade against fansubs as a whole.

I'm against fansubs and downloaders who don't contribute to the industry within legal parameters -- and, if you chose to listen to the companies across the board, they're taking a bath on fansubs -- or at least they're SAYING they are.

And if you obviously think this is happening in a vacuum, then, again, I can't really help you. But that'd be about the only defense I would have for either what you are saying here or what the likes of Zac are saying WRT what I'm saying.

psycho 101 wrote:

As for the resulting sanity of this forum be damned, yea that just shows your immaturity and ignorance. You're basically saying screw this place as long as I get to run my mouth. Nice.

No, and you really look stupid when you say that.

Let me spell this out to you in small words: If it's fansubs, then fansubs are fair game. If Dentsu lost that much to lost sales due to piracy, then piracy is on the table. Without that information, it's really useless to hold any type of discussion on the subject whatsoever, since all roads lead to dead ends.

Or do you want 23 pages of "WAH!! OMG!!! ARE WE GOING TO GET OUR (insert Geneon title here)????" Because that'd be about the extent of the mess.

I mean, what's going to happen to these fora if it's found out that this and other companies go under due to piracy? It, and the entire fanbase, are not going to be very sane about it.

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

Imagine what would happen to that debate if it's actually revealed that the worst fears are true and the industry overestimated sales, and BADLY!!! Civil war among anime fans might be putting it lightly.

Could be about and are about are two different things. Talking and debating civilly the idea of fansubs and going on and on about the evils of them are also two different things. They even gave opportunity to discuss them and their POSSIBLE relevance here but you and others squandered that right and opportunity with your incessant fansub flame wars and inability to talk like rational human beings. Nope, most of you are left or right wing nuts who refuse to even listen to the other side because they're "evil."

Then ban me and all the others who do that from the fora and have your happy little rose garden, but then don't come screaming to us when the writing appears to be on the wall.

Intellectual Property and Copyright Enforcement will be the absolute centerpiece of whatever anime industry goes forward from here -- the current paradigm is unmanageable, and the subject of this thread shows it and proves it.

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

Yes, I'm acting like a Doomsayer, because that's where the business is going -- straight into the toilet. There's a lot of industry hate out there, and we have no idea how much (if really, much of anything) is getting sold out there, and that does nothing for consumer confidence.

A year ago, I wasn't even really sure ADV might survive -- now, them laying back may have been the right move, but will there be enough left when The Crackdown occurs for them to continue as they are? I think not!

How do you know the business is going down the toilet? Get off your arse and tell us. Quit with this goddamned stupid tirade and actually answer how you are in a position to know this.

Because I pay attention.

Because I actually hear what a lot of the industry is saying about the subject in its panels.

I'd really have loved to hear the AX industry roundtable on the subject, since all indications were that they all agreed that they're taking a bath, with piracy and IP issues at the absolute forefront.

(But again, that's classified. Nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyahhhhhhhhhh...)

Just because I'm not in the industry DOES NOT MEAN that one can't come to reasoned conclusions given information which is out there.

Otherwise, frankly, the only people who should take part in any discussion on this board are the industry insiders. Because OBVIOUSLY none of the rest of us know a G-D thing about what's going on.

psycho 101 wrote:

Tell us the business classes you have taken to properly analyze the anime market.

How about looking at a similar situation with the American music industry (which would've died completely had it been the scope of the American anime industry -- and only the long history of the music industry probably will save it long enough for the new paradigm to take hold)?

How about looking at the myriad of IP issues that anime companies have been attempting to address over the last, say, 12-24 months? JASCRA with YouTube, licenses announced through cease-and-desists, ODEX, etc.

And you DON'T think that's because they take a bath on all this? You must think the anime industry is doing pretty well.

psycho 101 wrote:

Tell us the insider information you have on the various companies financial dealings. Tell us how you know about the gains and losses the companies have financially and logistically.

How bout looking at stories like THIS ONE!!

How bout listening to what the people in the know say about the matter?

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

Thorazine might be better, but that might take weeks to wear off.

Seriously, I do not take kindly when mods decide they want to toss their heads into the air and say that we shouldn't say anything because they have position on us and "Nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyahhhhhhhhh..."

And your wonderful middle school remarks are any better then those you claim to not take kindly? I suppose you follow the old he did it so I can do it line of thinking huh? They say something you don't like so you're entitled to respond equally immature right? I seriously think you need some damn medication. I mean you're going on and on like it's the end of the world over this anime situation. Guess what, even if anime disappeared tomorrow the world would move on. Deal with it. Anime is not required for you to be alive like oxygen or water. Even if the worst should happen the wolrd keeps spinning.

No, that line of speaking is how they come across.

If it is the way they say it is, then not only should I never be allowed to post on these subjects, but neither should anyone who isn't in the industry or has direct connections to it -- since there's nothing any of us can constructively add (in that mode of thinking) to the discussion!

And, by the way, vis-a-vis meds?? I'm on four.

psycho 101 wrote:

starcade wrote:

You are truly delusional. Here it is in big bold letters:

The third biggest anime company, in American market share, just threw in the towel.

What I was asking above is why... If they can't tell us, there's no need to continue this thread or really any of the other related ones, except for the hope that their title will be able to be finished and released before The End of Geneon...

(Of course, you might not get told _that_ either, because 'nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyahhhhhhhhhh...')

The thread is open for debate and those to share opinions and theories. NOT go on and on with end of the anime world mindless ranting or yet another fansub flame war #53558. Since loli just got off the hot topic burner and we have fansubs I suppose next week will be on dubs and subs. Rolling Eyes

How else is a reasoned person supposed to look at the material end of the third-largest market share in the United States in anime than, at the very least, a very damaging blow to anime in the States, if not waiting for the next shoe to drop.

I know you think you are being intellectual and all, but all you are doing is screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING!!! RUN!!!!". Over and over again. And anyone who says it is not the end of the world(industry) you essentially call them an idiot ad hominem.

Chill out. Munch on some pills, and stop calling for the thread to be locked because your mindscape thinks it should. Or if you don't like it make your own thread with specific rules as to what you want to be discussed and what shouldn't in the OP. Instead of trying to bend everyone elses will to your own.

Dargonxtc wrote:

I know you think you are being intellectual and all, but all you are doing is screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING!!! RUN!!!!". Over and over again. And anyone who says it is not the end of the world(industry) you essentially call them an idiot ad hominem.

Chill out. Munch on some pills, and stop calling for the thread to be locked because your mindscape thinks it should. Or if you don't like it make your own thread with specific rules as to what you want to be discussed and what shouldn't in the OP. Instead of trying to bend everyone else's will to your own.

Yes he is and I'm not going to waste my time responding anymore. No matter how much I repeat myself or ask for proof or anything beyond his shallow little doomsayer fansub tirade that's all he'll do. Any further responses to him will only result in his same over played factless assumptions he claims are good as gold. He's a one trick pony and his trick has dried up.

psycho 101 wrote:

Yes he is and I'm not going to waste my time responding anymore. No matter how much I repeat myself or ask for proof or anything beyond his shallow little doomsayer fansub tirade that's all he'll do. Any further responses to him will only result in his same over played factless assumptions he claims are good as gold. He's a one trick pony and his trick has dried up.

You know...as much as I hate to say this, I'm gonna have to agree here. Even I'm starting to find starcade's posts annoying, and this is coming from a guy who usually lets these kinds of things slide by on other forums.

Those posts are way too long bub. You gotta stop the endless quoting arguments back and forth (which I used to do a ton of also). At some point you start talking circles around each other and the debate comes to be over the individual points you are making and not the argument as a whole.

Think of it this way. Once you start quoting someone else's separate lines more than 1 time you are probably going the wrong direction. They'll start doing it to you and then no one can read all of that. It's also useless because you lose the sense of a cohesive argument with all that text. And you as the debater lose the good points that your opponent might be making when you take much of their statements out of the original context (not intentionally of course, but when you are looking to piecemeal someone's statements it's going to happen).

Didn't anyone even notice the e-mail reply I put up from Geneon earlier? Ah well I guess not.. whatever Razz

Koast wrote:

Didn't anyone even notice the e-mail reply I put up from Geneon earlier? Ah well I guess not.. whatever Razz

If your talking about this, then you posted it in a different thread. And it's not from Geneon, it's from Amanda at Right Stuf who's CEO has been talking on these very forums about the matter.

This is killing me!!!

Did anyone ever consider that fansubs are killing the industry???

I'm sick thinking about all the series I've started and may never be able to complete. Rozen Maiden. Kyo Kara Maoh. Too many others to list. Not to mention brand new series for which Geneon has only released 1 disc.

I don't do fansubs. It's Piracy. Mad

Urd47 wrote:

This is killing me!!!

Did anyone ever consider that fansubs are killing the industry???

I'm sick thinking about all the series I've started and may never be able to complete. Rozen Maiden. Kyo Kara Maoh. Too many others to list. Not to mention brand new series for which Geneon has only released 1 disc.

I don't do fansubs. It's Piracy. Mad

Looks like you don't completely read a thread either otherwise you would have had no need to ask. Wink

Mohawk52 wrote:

Urd47 wrote:

This is killing me!!!

Did anyone ever consider that fansubs are killing the industry???

I'm sick thinking about all the series I've started and may never be able to complete. Rozen Maiden. Kyo Kara Maoh. Too many others to list. Not to mention brand new series for which Geneon has only released 1 disc.

I don't do fansubs. It's Piracy. Mad

Looks like you don't completely read a thread either otherwise you would have had no need to ask. Wink

^ Indeed he didn't, despite the "Before you post, read the thread" announcement in this forum.

And in general, this thread had been inactive for a week, and the news itself has been supplanted by Geneon's announcement of the production halt. There's nothing left except the same fansub debate that's going on in all threads related to this news, so I'm going to lock it down for redundancy. If anyone has a good reason that it should be left open, feel free to PM me and I'll consider it.

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