Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Plans to Toughen Copyright Law on Downloads
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blind_assassin
 Posts: 755 |
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Yeah, they have to save it for 17 year olds found smoking marijuana. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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There have been a few situations where jail sentences have been given, but that's mostly occured where it was a bigger thing- like say, selling 100's of burnt dvd's, or a case ANN posted about where someone was uploading hundreds of manga to a website they were planning to sell memberships to. I imagine we'll moreso see people getting fined- which will probably deter a lot of fans in Japan from doing that sort of thing. It'll probably be a better organized version of what Odex is doing. |
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starcade
Posts: 204 |
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It kills fansubs _dead_, especially if it is decided that the Japanese come across the ocean (and they'd be fools not to!!) and try to prosecute Americans under said law. Basically, your question is whether they would use this law to attempt the prosecution of American fansubbers and downloaders. If the answer is yes, then it's basically all over. (And it's probably all over for the American anime industry as presently constructed.) Which leads to the next post in the thread:
I'd say prepare for a magnificent cutback in the amount of licensed anime over the next few months and years while the market readjusts -- should one exist at all...
Which will mean that the industry will completely overestimate by an order of magnitude or so the number of fans who would remain, driving up prices, and see ya to a majority of the C and B-level titles being licensed now. As I said, much to the chagrin of TPTB, in another thread: The American anime industry is piracy-driven. Until that changes (and it may take The Dark Age to do it), an act like this would be suicidal, at least on this side of the pond.
Which would mean that this would represent The Crackdown, and that they could come over here with this Japanese law.
Why is it a hard answer, when it's right in front of anyone's face willing to see the 600-pound gorilla in the room? How can anime companies, other than piracy, find out what titles _MIGHT_ (and there's the key word, kiddies -- _MIGHT_) be sale-able in the United States? How do anime companies determine if the licensing fees for a title are sufficiently in scale if they have no other idea as to the purported popularity of a title? What I've been saying for a number of threads is that the market is driven by downloaders and pirates. The oversaturation of titles basically only means that the industry has sorely miscalculated the number of fans willing to buy anime (either given titles or at all). |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Well, the US anime industry'll probably just keep going. VIZ, Funimation and Bandai will continue their TV airings, which reach audiences beyond fansubs, and audiences who might actually buy DVDs's.
I seriously doubt thing'ld get worse for the domestic industry- if anything, they'd get better. They'll do it the way they've always done it- watch what's doing well in Japan, watch for stuff from creators they've had good experiences selling product of, get stuff randomly in package deals, and watch for stuff that might be good and worth taking a risk on. Given a great deal of what ADV and other companies release is *prelicensed*, they probably won't have a hard time figuring out what to release. The majority of Manga Ent's titles are coproductions, so it's less so a case of finding somethign to release, as knowing WHAT sells for them [or what they think might, like say, Highlander anime], and getting japanese companies to make more [Street Fighter Generations was released here first. Karas's OVA was completed mostly due to Manga making it one of the top releases of 2006- it was on hiatus for over a year in Japan, then Manga schedules a vol.2, says it's on the way, and 2-3 months before it's released here, suddenly the last 3 episodes pop up on DVD in Japan] The industry was around before downloads, and it'll be around after downloads.... |
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starcade
Posts: 204 |
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On what basis and on what fanbase?? Now, I will agree that Anime Network and Funimation Channel give those two labels a real chance at retaining an audience, but is that still going to be around when the sales get so negligible that the companies themselves might not make it?
Well, they can't get much worse, really. But, without privy information only TPTB have, we don't know how bad it is. But I point to the following:
You see, this is what I think would happen -- as I said in another thread -- to the anime industry. Since the industry is especially reliant on piracy to get a fanbase in the door (at least the vast majority, if not all), cutting that off would mean that people like Xanas would just be the first wave to leave the door -- and certainly not the last.
And then those who would actually pay for the material would get that cost passed on to them -- and that's the second departing wave. Soon, you're even in worse shape than when you started, since you've cut off the only real means you have to a fanbase -- if you are the anime industry.
The problem with that theory is that it'd be a whole new ball game. First off, how many fans would you have left once the downloaders and fansubbers are destroyed? It is one of my main contentions that the actual sales-base has been grossly overestimated by the anime companies. Second, how many of THOSE fans remaining would be able to afford the new pricing scheme that such copyright enforcement would require? You'll wish for the days of $29.99 MSRP or $21.99 at Best Buy! And some cleanup of the rest of it:
And the ridiculous goes to the sublime. Zac, that something is a witch hunt does not mean necessarily that it's a _BAD THING_. For example, I have no problem calling the failed attempt to stop Barry Bonds from soiling the all-time home run record a witch hunt -- the only reason the Feds went after BALCO was to go after Barry. (And now, with Operation Raw Deal, they are seeing the scope of the steroid problem...) And like ORD, the anime companies may only now get the idea as to how bad things really are for their bottom line when they realize how much fansubbed/downloaded material is on people's computers. It may be a witch hunt, but it may also be _necessary_.
I think we will be about to find out. (Especially if those international conventions, as stated above, do apply...)
Especially when a lot of them leave when they realize how little money their work actually makes. |
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musashi1600
 Posts: 198 Location: Hawaii |
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If I'm reading the text of the Berne Convention right, Japanese law has no bearing on fansubs and other pirated material here in the United States.
If I've read that correctly, the short version is that U.S. law applies to how people in the U.S. can distribute copyrighted material, regardless of where the material in question was originally created. Legally speaking, the article doesn't mean much to fans outside of Japan. Current law already allows copyright holders to legally pursue people who upload fansubs, who are the people viewers here would be most interested in. The expanded law would allow them to go after people who only downloaded anime in Japan, which changes nothing internationally. If this new law gives the companies in Japan the encouragement to start suing people for illegally distributing their work, then people here would have reason to take notice, but that's something that could've happened at anytime anyway. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Oh boy here we go again...
The second something download related is mentioned, were right back into a fansub debate. Never can there just be a discussion about this specific issue. No, were back on to fansubs in general. Weve got the idiots yelling about how Anime should be free, and the idiots yelling about how people who download are immoral bastards. Anyone who's acting like this is a big deal is overstating this. If the companies couldn't do anything about downloads when they were able to go after the uploaders, they arent going to be able to do anything if theyre allowed to go after downloaders. Its an issue of the companies actually talking action, not being allowed to take action. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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..... but it's an article *about* the illegal downloading of japanese intellectual property. Which is what fansubbing is.
Also, it's not that Japanese distributors can't go after US anime fans- they can, they just have to work within US copyright law. I have no idea if anime companies will actively go after Japanese fans, but with more artists groups in Japan moving against intellectual property theft, companies organizing groups like Jasrac, I imagine we'll see more movement against such activities now that Japanese laws have made it easier to go after such people. And if fansubs dried up, those who buy anime would probably keep buying. I know I would- most core, longtime, fans would, and there's lots of pre-digisub fans sticking around. Those who get exposed to anime via TV would start buying DVD's on occasion to check out new shows rather then discover download sites. And those who did nothing but download face a choice- buy anime, or stop watching anime. If they really love anime, some might just buy it. It'd essentially go back to what anime fandom was before digital fansubs existed [vhs fansubs were altogether different], and anime would continue a growth based on that pattern- people getting introduced VIA friends, tv, rental stores, and lower priced editions of older material. Kind of like how the manga industry works [titles like OEL titles, and Manwha get along just fine by word of mouth]. How to know what to buy? Read reviews. Watch TV. Watch trailers. Read anime magazines. Read manga. And that's all I'll say on this- I've already offered what I thought was worth noting [ie- the fact that taking out domestic downloaders in Japan might affect access for foriegn fansubbers], and I'll leave it at the points I made. ps---- With creators like Leij Matsumot and Kazuo Koike backing movements related to this, I can't help but side with the artists. It's their business. |
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White_Ninja
 Posts: 35 Location: USA |
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you have a point. when i was just a beginning fan, before fansubs, or even before i was smart enough to look around on the internet to learn about new titles... i learned about most new titles from friends, ads, magazines... etc. |
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calawain
Posts: 192 Location: New York, NY |
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People love to argue about fansubs one way or another. The fact that this ruling will have nearly zero to zero affect on fansubs outside of Japan seems to escape epople.... |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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No, the topic is *about* a change in Japanese laws allowing them to go after downloaders, instead of just uploaders. That hardly translates to "lets all have the same old stupid moral fansub debate." Fansubs are an issue with a very large number of topics included. Just becuase some of them are brought up hardly means we should go into all of them because most of them have without a doubt been beaten to death before many times. Its unfortunate because there is still stuff to be said that relate to fansubs but every time a topic like that comes along people ruin it by diving on the same old stupid issues. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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A "Witchhunt"? Talk about overreacting.
@Starcade: I think you are grossly overestimating how many people that buy DVDs use fansubs to make that decision. By the way, do you have the slightest bit of evidence to back up these doomsday claims you are making or that the entire market is based on piracy? |
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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It's probably boiling down to this: No more raws on (anime) torrenting sites.
It would be sad if it's true. But when it is; I blame those circus clowns who don't put their money back into the system and buy the DVDs and such. I just love being an anime fan. Do you? |
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qwertypoiuy
Posts: 4 |
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sorry my english is bad
Do fan subber get RAWs from torrent and japanese sites or thier is another way? and i think they will go at first after japanese people because they are thier main market which will be hard enough and it will take long time to start looking overseas and even they may not do that and if fansubber depends on japanese site i think they can get RAWs since upload is already illegal another question they couldnt do nothing to uploaders what makes it easier to caught downloaders? Last edited by qwertypoiuy on Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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quartears
Posts: 46 |
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In a perfect world, we wouldn't have fansubs and the need for them would be zilch. I personally don't like downloading as it uses up bandwidth and I have better things to do while on the computer.
I don't think there should be hate for one or the other side of anime fans. Hating on fansubbers is being an elitist. If you're going to hate on them for downloading fansubs then hate on people who illegally download music. It's the same logic, but people who illegally download music don't acknowledge the fact that not paying the artists is bad. They use the idea that its just file transfer and file transfer is legal. Yes while file transfer itself is legal, it's still illegal to get music you or someone else didn't pay for already unless it's like CC. That aside, the point is now that they are taking action. So, you're warned fansub people. About being creating a fan base, if you need new things to watch, you have ANN right here. Just go look up people behind the anime you like and figure out what you like about the show. Even with all that I still can't blame people for downloading fansubs. If the series is hard to get even in Japan, then how else could it be watched? It's not like all VHS tapes are still around or in good condition. How else would someone watch something like Unico? |
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