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NEWS: Japan Plans to Toughen Copyright Law on Downloads


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Jariten
Company Representative


Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 179
Location: Here and there
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:48 pm Reply with quote
As someone who has seen this happen many times, I'll say this: 10 bucks says that the industry cares a whole lot more about downloading in Japan than downloading in the western world.

They may not like the fact that US fans trade fansubs online, and I am sure that international downloading is an issue that they will deal with directly in the near future. However, I assure you that they are far more upset that fans in Japan are sharing stuff for free. That could change over time, but considering how much the industry goes after Winny users (and given the wording of the article - they are amending Japanese law), I'm assuming that the main target of this law adjustment is at home in Japan.

Zac is absolutely right - this isn't a witch hunt. In my opinion, for JASRAC, this is business as usual.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:48 pm Reply with quote
Cool, a good day for the artists.

This law change was probably needed to go after people who download pure unadulterated rips. A line for which if you cross, there is no question of intent.

As far as how it will affect fansubs, I think you would need an answer to a very important question. How many Japanese prefer to download their anime via english hard subbed, and not a clean version(which would be raw for us) Question If the answer is a lot, then there might be some changes among the fansub community. If the answer is not very many, then I don't think there will be many changes. If they wanted to take down fansubs they could have already done so with existing laws.

And for those worried that this will affect fansubbers ability to obtain anime raws, don't be. Setting up a private download portal is easier than spitting.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:12 pm Reply with quote
qwertypoiuy wrote:
sorry my english is bad
Do fan subber get RAWs from torrent and japanese sites or thier is another way?


People in Japan record the shows from TV, edit out the commercials, and then distribute them somewhere. Fansubbers get the raws probably from the same place as numerous other people that live in Japan.
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brightredglow



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Fiction Alchemist wrote:
Oh, when Aishiteruze Baby gets licensed, then call me, okay? I'll want to buy it. Heck, maybe I'll learn Japanese sometime soon and buy the original Japanese DVDs if they even exist, since I like the show so much. Remember, WHEN it gets licensed. Wink (I think I should get that Japanese class sometime soon, yeah?) [Just in case this wasn't clear, the point of this paragraph was that some things are probably never going to get licensed, and that fansubs will likely always exist for that reason]


That was the first series that I thought of when read this article.

On principle, I can understand protecting the rights of the copyright holders and I believe it is their right to protect them. This is why when something I enjoyed is licensed, I'll go out and support it. Example: Black Lagoon was on my must-have list and I got vols 1-3 as soon as they were available; Honey & Clover is a guaranteed buy once Viz starts releasing it and Mushi-shi is a series that I've bought copies for myself and as gifts. One Piece, now that it is under Funimation, goes back on my must have list. (And yes, I am totally broke most of the time because of anime spending habits.)

But then I think about series that I love but have yet to be licensed such as Aishiteruze Baby, Lamune, and one of my absolute favorites of all time, Monster, which at 74 episodes is such a daunting project to undertake as a dub that I doubt it will ever get licensed here. And was Emma ever licensed? What about Nodame Cantabile (both animated and live action series)? Then there is RomeoXJuliet which has yet to have a license announcement (but I'm pretty sure that it is a given that it will be licensed).

And it took forever for Mahou Shoujo Tai to be licensed here which makes me a bit ill when I think of all the crap that was licensed here in the US since 2005 when Mahou Shoujo Tai's run ended.

I hope that I don't sound like I'm whining because I'm trying not to. I acknowledge that the process that leads to fansub distribution straddles between the grey and not-so-grey areas; however, I really wish there was an alternative that would allow international fans to legally acquire a subtitled series.

Heck, if these companies wanted to put some of these fansubs on a paysite, I'd gladly pay to download them. If it could be done for Death Note, how about for other series?

Anyhow, I wish there was a happy median that would allow fans to legally acquire the series that they enjoy so everything can be on the up and up. I mean, there are a lot of fans who are "I don't care if it comes out as an official release; I got the fansub!" but there are a lot like me who get the fansubs and then buy the official but also have a lot of series that we would love to support in some way but they haven't been licensed as yet so we are in this kind of limboland.
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Fiction Alchemist



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Deleted.

Last edited by Fiction Alchemist on Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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calawain



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 192
Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:24 pm Reply with quote
Tyrenol wrote:
It's probably boiling down to this: No more raws on (anime) torrenting sites.

It would be sad if it's true. But when it is; I blame those circus clowns who don't put their money back into the system and buy the DVDs and such.

I just love being an anime fan. Do you?


Except that raws will still keep going up....People don't care if it's illegal, they do it anyways.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

At most I think uploaders and downloaders - unless they were so excessive as to create a scenario where a fine simply isn't punishment enough - would suffer some heavy fines. Most states don't have jail space for things like this.


I don't really see jail time for downloaders (maybe uploaders somewhere if they're excessive) other than maybe one or 2 "example" cases which is why I responded like that since the whole -throw me in jail for downloading & lose the 24k I make-bit was excessive in itself.

Starcade, you are so sure anime will die without fansubs--will you eat your words for us in a year if you're wrong?

People misuse words all the time. Go find an interesting book called The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft & Demonology which, despite the hoodoo title is actually an interesting history of the witch trials. Maybe if you know what they were all about, you wouldn't throw the words around so casually. It was it's own little holocaust in Europe in its day.
THere is no way to compare turning off the supply of fansubs can compare to being dropped from a ladder with a rope tied to one's one's hands tied behind one's back with the purpose of dislocating one's shoulders to force one to admit to beinga witch. Thunbscrews, iron maidens--the only other comparison would have to be the Holocaust for being falsely accused for the purpose of one group being killed by another for no good reason. Perfectly innocent people being encouraged by their guards to simply confess so they can be put out of their misery.

Ooo yeah, downloaders are looking at that kind of treatment.
Excuse me. If you're a downloader accused of downloading (should it become something to be prosecuted for) how are you an innocent falsely accused?
Pay your fine if they catch you.
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Um, the main thing that surprises me about this, is that I would have thought it was already illegal to download copyrighted material to begin with. I would have thought that it has always been possible to prosecute downloaders.

This doesn't mean that I think downloaders are going to be targeted if this new law takes effect, though. I'd always thought that the levels at which piracy was targeted was limited only by how much effort the Japanese companies were willing to put into their investigations and possible lawsuits. I never thought that there were laws actually preventing Japanese companies from prosecuting individual downloaders. Oh well.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:54 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh:

I hate to defend the people calling this a witchhunt, because it is obviously a great overstatement of the situation. However, obviously the term "witchhunt" is an expression. Nobody is comparing it to the actual events that took place durring witchhunts. Assuming they mean it literally is really just as ridiculous if not more so than calling it a witchhunt in the first place. So plese, stop blowing things people say out of proportion.
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teh*darkness



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 901
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:49 am Reply with quote
starcade wrote:
But I point to the following:

Xanas wrote:
I can only speak for myself, but if they actually fined me I'd just stop buying from them entirely and would choose other things to do (provided I didn't just find ways to be much more secretive about it). If they threw me in jail then they'd be screwing society out of 24k a year. I'd sure think that was awfully smart of them. I think I'd laugh at the irony honestly.


You see, this is what I think would happen -- as I said in another thread -- to the anime industry.

Since the industry is especially reliant on piracy to get a fanbase in the door (at least the vast majority, if not all), cutting that off would mean that people like Xanas would just be the first wave to leave the door -- and certainly not the last.


I like how you just assume this vast number of fansub downloaders actually buy the anime they download when it's licensed. I, for one, started buying anime DVD's almost 2 years before I'd ever heard about fansubs, and another 2 years went by before I'd even downloaded one. In all this time, I think I've watched maybe 3-4 complete series fansubbed, sampled maybe a dozen more, and once Kanon comes out, I'll own every series I've ever watched fansubbed in it's entirety (FMA, FMP- TSR, Kanon 2K6), and I'm currently buying both Bleach and Naruto, as well as several other titles. I can easily say I own more anime than I've ever watched fansubbed, or ever will. And if fansubs go away, I'll just go back to reading NewType USA to see what shows are coming out...
The only people who will stop buying anime entirely are those who think they are "entitled" to something for nothing, and if they don't get it for free, then why bother paying for any of it (which in itself doesn't make logical sense). And I doubt this group of people makes up a huge segment of the current anime buying crowd anyway. So, in the end, anime will keep coming out, people will keep buying it, and the most vocal people, as in all areas of life, will be the minority... And we all know the internet simply helps the vocal minority to seem more prominent than they really are...
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Ahasuerus



Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 32
Location: S.F. Bay Area, CA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:10 am Reply with quote
Well, here's a thought... If these companies are so anxious to defeat piracy, and since they already have online stores, perhaps if they HIRED subbers to translate their currently-running episodes and then post them in high-quality on their sites for download(hopefully for iTunes-cheap)?

I'm sure that they must know that the lion's share of U.S. viewers see the current series through p2p, as it's really the only way besides pay-cable for many here to be able to catch them. And while their main focus is on the Japanese market, they must be aware of the overseas potential and would want to encourage our interest in current hot shows, rather than waiting for our companies to get around to (maybe) licensing them when they've gone stale. There also needs to be a much faster method of releasing domestic (U.S.) DVDs concurrent with the Japanese releases, if possible.

I'm not going to get in the middle of the fansubbers vs anti-fansubbers pissing match; but I am grateful for them as it's the only way I'd have been exposed to anything other than taking a chance and spending my little cash on guesses. I am conflicted though since I believe in artists rights to compensation. But I buy all the series I enjoy, and delete the rest, and consider them as just having seen them over the air as the Japanese are able to do. That seems the fairest solution, to me.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:36 am Reply with quote
Fiction Alchemist on page 2 wrote:
Oh, when Aishiteruze Baby gets licensed, then call me, okay? I'll want to buy it. Heck, maybe I'll learn Japanese sometime soon and buy the original Japanese DVDs if they even exist, since I like the show so much.

They do.

quartears on page 3 wrote:
Even with all that I still can't blame people for downloading fansubs. If the series is hard to get even in Japan, then how else could it be watched? It's not like all VHS tapes are still around or in good condition. How else would someone watch something like Unico?

Japanese laserdisc? DVD or VHS?

Fiction Alchemist wrote:
Monster is the OTHER series I thought about while writing my message. I didn't mention it because I didn't want to get into a "it will likely get licensed" bag of worms. It sure has been a LONG time since Monster was finished, hasn't it? Is it even released on DVD in Japan?

Yes.

Fiction Alchemist wrote:
I suppose it wouldn't matter; the DVD players at my house play R1 and only R1.

All-region DVD players are cheap.

Which isn't to say that I do not own my share of fansubs and copies of Japanese releases (on VHS), but I went out of my way two (or was it three?) years ago to replace what I could (the large majority of that part of my collection) with legitimate North American releases. That, and I'm replacing the Hikaru no Go CD-Rs as the R1 DVDs are released. There are still some VHS tapes for which I should buy R2 DVDs, but my will becomes weak at the thought of the cost...

Ahasuerus: See jsevakis' posts in the ADV Films, Geneon USA Distribution Deal Cancelled thread (at least through page 11, which is as far I have (to this point) gotten)—he strongly agrees with you, and explains why this has not yet happened.
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:05 am Reply with quote
brightredglow wrote:
And was Emma ever licensed?


In addition to CMX licensing the manga, RightStuf has licensed the anime.

They'll be releasing season 1 and 2 in 2008, and already have preorders posted [though no date scheduled quite yet]. Like the SuperGals boxset, the first 1000 buyers get their names listed on the DVD as a thank you.

http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/4NGaVrChzrq6eMFXzP/browse/item/75106/4/0/0

http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/4NGaVrChzrq6eMFXzP/browse/item/75107/4/0/0

These will be thinpack boxsets, and subtitle only. Like the SuperGals S2 boxset, they should also be available from other retailers [minus the "Thanks!" on the dvd].

Making releases subtitled only has changed the amount of anime that can be licensed and released in a costeffective manner- Media Blasters has licensed numerous niche shows recently like their Yuri Fan line, assorted bishonen game based anime, lower profile otaku-aimed shows like Ramen Fighter Miki and Girls High, and artsy stuff like Tweeny Witches [though it hasn't been announced it it's subonly mind you]

The release of Emma, and a name change to Nozomi [a japanese word for wishes], hints that RightStuf might be doing more releases in this manner. ImaginAsian's TMS Anime Classics line of print-on-demand official DVD's is another, alternative means of manufacturing 70's and 80's series that might not be top sellers if releases as dub/sub massmarket dvd's, but still have a lot of fans who'd love to own them subbed.

I think it'd be interesting to see more anime companies offer series like RS does [encourage enough fans to buy the dvd to produce it, and thank them on the dvd]- there's also Animeigo's release style.....

Animeigo's a smaller company, but when they do do a new anime release, they make it interesting. With Macross and You're Under Arrest [and the upcoming Yawara], the more people preordering the series on their website, the lower the price for the boxset gets. Which keeps things good for the company and fans.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:19 am Reply with quote
Ahasuerus:

Its an interesting idea, but I'm doubtful. If it remains as easy as it is to see a fansub, sure some people might will be willing to pay a bit for the legit release, but it will hardly be the majority in my oppinion. Add to that the fact that theyre selling them for cheaper and making less per sale, and I don't see it making a huge difference. Also, I can see this sortof alienating Dub fans, who generally tend to buy more DVDs than Sub fans (No disrespect to sub fans, but statistically its mostlikely true.) I guess it depends on how they treat Dubs though. Would they then never release a Dubbed version? If so, I can see Dub fans either just flat out buying less Anime, or figuring that if theres no Dub they might as well just see a fansub. Or would they have a DVD Dual Audio release much later? That seems like a bit of a stretch since the Anime is old news by that time, even more so than the way things work now. Wasting time on a DVD release if its long after the Anime is released seems like a bad idea. Also, even if they do it that way, it still causes the same problems as not releasing a Dub at all.

Honestly, I think the best solution would be if people would just use downloads in moderation. Downloads themselves are not a major problem. If people try and buy when they can afford it, and generally save fansubs for stuff they probably wouldn't buy anyway then its not going to cause much of a problem. What does cause a problem is when people decide to never pay for something if they can get it for free. This especially becomes a problem when they spead this idea to others and create a mentality that shouldn't pay for something if you can avoid it. That is quite simply not true. You absolutely should pay for your Anime, especially if you can. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to hold it against someone who isnt willing to pay. Just because you should do something doesn't mean you're a bad person or something for not doing it. However, understand that you should try and give back to the companies sometime, because if nobody does they will go out of buisness.

Unfortunately, I guess expecting that to happen is unrealistic. There are just too many stupid people out there. Its a real shame because downloads do do alot of good for Anime. Too bad they and the industry cant seem to exist symbiotically. However, such a relationship requires balance and right now, the industry is too weak to sustain it.
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Subaru19



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:00 am Reply with quote
For me this law has a disappointing effect in terms of Japanese music. I tend to find out about bands that I like from Youtube. I'll hear something about a Japanese group online, go on youtube, see if they have a video and if I like it I'll buy their CDs. Even bands (like Rin' and the Yoshida Brothers), that have CD releases in the US have singles that I liked, found on youtube and realized that they were only available in Japan. So I went and bought them from CD Japan.

I tend not to want to spend a lot of money on a Japanese CD based on word of mouth alone, so I'll probably buy less, but I'm sure that has very little impact on the Japanese economy. Anime smile

Already videos have been removed from youtube that were interesting to me, but I also realize that there are other ways to see these videos. For instance there is a website called BARKS that posts interviews and video clips of Japanese artists.

But I do have a question. There are plenty of places to rent CDs in Japan. What's to keep people from renting a CD and copying it to their computer? I know that Japanese music CDs tend to have a "don't rent this CD without our consent" label on the CD, but how does this translate to "this protects our copywrite?"
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