×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: New York Times Manga Best Seller List, September 18-24


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
DJStarstryker wrote:
I'm pretty happy to see shoujo on top of the list. It always feels like shounen dominates way too much in the US. But then again, since Sailor V had never come out here before and Sailor Moon was not only out of print for years but the new version is unflipped and everything... it's no wonder it's up there.

For the most part, it almost always has been women dominating the manga sales whereas men dominate anime sales. Though there has recently been more of a shift (in Japan) to where female-targeted shows are now selling quite well.


I thought the same was true for the US as well.. wasn't Fruits Basket and other shoujo (and fake shoujo like Black Butler) always the big dogs here? Naruto and Bleach being up there as well, of course. Manga always seemed a female-dominated thing.

baadaku12345 wrote:
Do you seriously expect them to ditch the names that have been engraved in the fandom for years? And I hope you aren't complaining that they don't use the Japanese names for the actual Pokemon. Viz doesn't want to get in any trouble, so they make some simple edits that don't hurt the story or action and are approved by the parent Japanese company.


Yeah.. Japanese human and Pokemon names would be nice.

I'm just not very fond of pointless edits to be honest. But still, Viz has been handling it poorly besides that.. they kind of skip volumes and release things out of order from what I've seen. (Making each series it's own volume count and stuff, for example.. where it's all one series in Japan) Kind of like how 4Kids skips the last batch of episodes for GX and 5Ds to rush into the next series as fast as possible. Shame when marketing gets in the way of story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:25 pm Reply with quote
baadaku12345 wrote:

Do you seriously expect them to ditch the names that have been engraved in the fandom for years? And I hope you aren't complaining that they don't use the Japanese names for the actual Pokemon. Viz doesn't want to get in any trouble, so they make some simple edits that don't hurt the story or action and are approved by the parent Japanese company.


Normally I don't care about different names in different regions, but if people are seriously going to claim that Squirtle is blasphemy than that's silly. Pokemon names are usually based on puns, so when you translate the game you have to make new puns. This is no different from what they did with the Ace Attorney series.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TsukasaElkKite



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 3948
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:11 pm Reply with quote
I still need to get SM volume 1. it's out of stock at Barnes and noble near my school Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:29 pm Reply with quote
It's good to see Sailor Moon doing well over here! It peaked at #46 in ALL BOOKS on Amazon! That's pretty huge! It's also #1 in manga, and #2 in Graphic Novels behind only the latest Diary of a Wimpy Kid book.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:59 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Normally I don't care about different names in different regions, but if people are seriously going to claim that Squirtle is blasphemy than that's silly. Pokemon names are usually based on puns, so when you translate the game you have to make new puns.


Name changes are still name changes. You'll find a lot of anime have puns in their name, but most companies don't change them because they're actual names. The only ones that do are companies like 4Kids and ShoPro who are some of the few still producing edited dubs. Most companies have the intelligence to leave names alone. Sailor Moon's awful dub did that back in the day, but thank God this new manga release uses the original names. Fans are definitely happier with this release than the older one.

And that argument doesn't really work considering the amount of Pokemon that actually keep their Japanese names (Pikachu, Pachirisu, etc), puns and all. Not to mention the English version misses a lot of puns.. Satoshi and Shigeru were two huge puns that are lost in translation (not to mention Ash implies he'd use fire-type Pokemon, but he doesn't, so it doesn't make much sense), like how most of the humans all have 3 characters in their names.

Quote:
This is no different from what they did with the Ace Attorney series.


Well, Gyakuten Saiban was pretty poorly handled by Capcom truth be told. They try to Americanize it despite plenty of Japanese culture still being in it. It feels like a bad Fox Kids dub with the whole 'this is America, well not really, ignore us using chopsticks and visiting Shino Shrines with Miku outfits, but we all have American names, where do we live again?" Capcom is a really odd company that misses a lot of things when they dumb things down for America, sadly. A lot of their games suffer in that regard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:09 pm Reply with quote
So you would prefer that the intentions are missed so you can claim purity? No one is impressed by your love of Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:56 pm Reply with quote
If there intention is clear with Raichou staying Raichou then I don't see the issue in more Pokemon keeping their Japanese names. After all a pokemon-speak is just them saying their names over and over and over again. It wouldn't matter if their names were Japanese or in English. What pokemon keep their original names and which change is pretty inconsistent though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14758
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:12 am Reply with quote
baadaku12345 wrote:

TitanXL wrote:

The describes the English version of Pokemon in general, really. Never liked Viz's censoring/changes of the manga... I just stick to other means of reading them.


The edits they did in Pokemon adventures were so small and minor that they made 0 impact on the comic. I know, I hate censorship as well but it was really in the best interest so that parents wouldn't find Poke balls coming out of bras and complain, just like what happened to Dragonball years ago.


And then there's the question that why those "pokeballs" are even needed? Pokemon is more than popular enough to do on its own. Heck, one could say the manga edited the anime it was based from! Imagine if Hollywood added T&A on an adaptation of an anime that didn't need it - it's the same kind of treatment. So not only was the change unnecessary but also unsensible - how many girls that age have those "pokeballs?" Laughing


TitanXL wrote:

baadaku12345 wrote:
The edits they did in Pokemon adventures were so small and minor that they made 0 impact on the comic. I know, I hate censorship as well but it was really in the best interest so that parents wouldn't find Poke balls coming out of bras and complain, just like what happened to Dragonball years ago.


I can't really stand the edited names and script most of all. And I don't really care if parents here so over protective we have to edit simple things like boobs or whatever.. that's their problem and it shouldn't be forced on anyone else.


It becomes Viz's problem if Viz wants to sell to said parents. And Viz do want to sell to them. Realize it's you to whom they don't particularly care whether they sell or not. They're just catering to their audience, just like anime in Japan is catering to their moe audience. Don't be a big meanie and deny what is supposed to be kids' fun - leave to kids what is for kids (it's not for you; it's for them). Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:47 am Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure the English Pokemon names are used for the simple fact that they are the official English names. Pokemon USA and Nintendo initially came up with them for the games, and all companies are required to use them, which is understandable. It would be confusing for the names in the manga to be different from the Games/CCG/TV Show! Plus the general American fanbase overwhelmingly uses the English names. It's very hard to find the Japanese version of the anime too (aside from the banned episodes). Plus, everything Pokemon related is marketed to kids. They are not marketed to weaboos. 99.9% of people in America (as well as other countries around the world, and not just English-speaking ones) know Ash as Ash and ONLY as Ash!

The Pokemon fandom and Sailor Moon fandom are very different from one another.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:29 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
So you would prefer that the intentions are missed so you can claim purity? No one is impressed by your love of Japan.


The key fault in your statement is you enjoy anime with double meanings in names just fine without the need for the dubs you watch or the subs you watch to change them. Like I said, seems like people prefer the original Sailor Moon names just fine judging by this release (where the previous editions did do those silly things you're trying to defend, like changing Usagi's name to 'Bunny'. Yeah, their names mean stuff.. but that doesn't mean you actually call them that name. Would you insist on calling an actual Japanese girl named Usagi 'bunny' and that her real name is insufficient? I sure hope not.) Don't be sheltered from other cultures and pretend they don't exist, it's bad form and kind of xenophobic.

You also didn't address the fact a portion of the Pokemon keep their original names already. Do explain why that is, if you would. What makes Togepi acceptable but not Mijumaru? They both have the same amout of puns in their name.

You should also address all the Pokemon who have puns originally in English but get changed anyway (Tunbear, for example, a portmanteau of tundra and bear, is changed)

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the English Pokemon names are used for the simple fact that they are the official English names. Pokemon USA and Nintendo initially came up with them for the games, and all companies are required to use them, which is understandable. It would be confusing for the names in the manga to be different from the Games/CCG/TV Show! Plus the general American fanbase overwhelmingly uses the English names.


Indeed. That's more than likely why an uncut release will never happen. It's not just 4Kids or PUSA you have to answer to, it's also Nintendo of America who probably has final say in everything. That's a shame.

Quote:
It's very hard to find the Japanese version of the anime too (aside from the banned episodes).


I'm going to assume you don't watch any subs then because they're no harder to find than Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, or any other big show on the usual sites. The only difference is those two have them available on official DVD as well.

Quote:
99.9% of people in America (as well as other countries around the world, and not just English-speaking ones) know Ash as Ash and ONLY as Ash!


You mean like how people knew Usagi as "Serena" before now?

And no, actually, the names of the characters and Pokemon change radically between countries. A lot of countries actually use the original names (and some used changed names, then switched to the original names when different rights holders took over after their initial contract lapsed and it went to another company) So no, there isn't exactly a standard (other than the Japanese names, obviously, since those get released first and everyone runs to learn them in advance)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 1176
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:55 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Don't be sheltered from other cultures and pretend they don't exist, it's bad form and kind of xenophobic.

Really? That's the conclusion you came to, that Charred Knight's comment comes off as kind of xenophobic? I mean, is that you're final answer?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:26 pm Reply with quote
@TitanXL

Again, the Sailor Moon fandom and Pokemon fandom are very different. The Pokemon fandom generally doesn't care as much about the Japanese version. They know about it, but they generally don't watch it. They're not weaboos. The Sailor Moon fandom tend to watch the Japanese version more often, and they knew about all the original names. Lots of people in the anime fandom knew about them too (they've been officially used on official releases before, just not the English anime, heck even the English manga used "Bunny" instead of Serena). Pretty much everybody in America refers to Ash as Ash. VERY few people here have seen the Japanese version of Pokemon, especially compared to Sailor Moon (though Pokemon is much more mainstream famous in America than Sailor Moon). I've tried finding Pokemon episodes in Japanese (not that I was interested in watching them, I was just curious about them). Trust me, aside from the banned episodes and recent episodes, it's pretty impossible. The show really hasn't had much of an official release on DVD in Japan anyway. Most video and DVD volumes were available for rent only, and the first generation hasn't had a complete release at all. It's much easier to find Naruto and Bleach online in Japanese, MUCH easier.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4367
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Danette-Anime-Otaku wrote:

But wouldn't those who read Red Hood & the Outlaws be a completely different kind of audience from those who would read Sailor Moon?


Like I said, it was kind of a joke. The New 52 was specifically designed to bring in new readers, male and female. Now if you have a person offended by the push, seeing this female target series, and then buying it instead because Starfire was portrayed as an adolescent sex fantasy.

The odds are nil, but the idea is funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Again, the Sailor Moon fandom and Pokemon fandom are very different. The Pokemon fandom generally doesn't care as much about the Japanese version. They know about it, but they generally don't watch it. They're not weaboos.


There's just as many websites and blogs devoted to the dub failures of Pokemon and Sailor Moon. So how are you claiming that the two fandoms are that different? As a matter of fact like most card games there is a large portion people devoted to collecting the Japanese edition of the cards.

Personally I think you don't know how to search or are lying about your trouble finding fansubbed Pokemon episodes. I type in "Pokemon first season sub" and BAM the first 5 links are to streaming sites with the, you guessed it, first season of Pokemon in Japanese.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:17 pm Reply with quote
I searched for "Watch Pokemon Episodes Online Subbed"

The first two links were English dub, the second was subbed, but with broken links. All the rest were all dubbed except for the new Best Wishes/Black and White links, and one had multiple links to a particular banned episode in Japanese (well, it used to be a banned episode, they ended up dubbing it later on).

As for uncensored sits, there are a few web pages with a couple of episodes, but nothing as elaborate as Sailor Moon (which has a full WEBSITE dedicated to it).


Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group