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NEWS: Gonzo Halts Romeo×Juliet Fansub with FUNimation's Help


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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:47 pm Reply with quote
That is good and all, but what is the benefit for the legit consumer?
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Askman



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:52 pm Reply with quote
This might be a precursor of more US licensing companies doing the same thing. Maybe they are taking the fall of Geneon more seriously than we thought. I wouldn't be surprised if more companies start doing this as well.
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testorschoice



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 466
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:53 pm Reply with quote
ximpalullaorg wrote:
That is good and all, but what is the benefit for the legit consumer?


Well, as Shinsen speculates, since this is for an ongoing anime, it may mean quicker and more high-quality releases outside Japan. We still have to see if that actually comes to be, but if that happens, it's a good thing.
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:00 pm Reply with quote
testorschoice wrote:
ximpalullaorg wrote:
That is good and all, but what is the benefit for the legit consumer?


Well, as Shinsen speculates, since this is for an ongoing anime, it may mean quicker and more high-quality releases outside Japan. We still have to see if that actually comes to be, but if that happens, it's a good thing.


I don't believe this one bit till I see it happens. They can enforce copyright all they want, but for now the legit consumer doesn't see any benefit out of this.
Same thing applies to companies that license in advance then wait a long time before releasing.
Oh, and I believe it was lost, but I was sarcastic in my first post.
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Omega13



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:08 pm Reply with quote
Unfortunately, we will most likely now see the hydra effect in action. The head has been cut off; how many will spawn in its place? Especially since the groups that tend to start up/take over after something like this rarely even acknowledge R1-licenses, let alone shows that have been explicitly said to NOT be licensed.

Last edited by Omega13 on Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:14 pm Reply with quote
I'd say "fortunately" personally, rather than unfortunately, because I think if maybe they get the message that this doesn't work they can move on and stop wasting their time trying to keep the tired old system.
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Omega13



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
I'd say "fortunately" personally, rather than unfortunately, because I think if maybe they get the message that this doesn't work they can move on and stop wasting their time trying to keep the tired old system.


While I see (and have seen, reading all your various posts in the Geneon threads) your stance on the issue, the groups that spring up from this also tend to be...lacking...in the quality department. Depending on who decides to ignore the C&D and continue, it might not even be worth downloading the show anymore, regardless of your stance on fansubs.
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calawain



Joined: 11 May 2007
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Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Maybe this is a test run to see how fans respond to such action. I assume that since the cost of sending a letter is negligible that if they don't get a lot of negative response then they would do more. Personally, if I see another one of these with an ongoing show that is not accompanied by an announcement that it is getting licensed I'll draft a nasty letter and probably not buy DVDs from that company. I understand that there is a need to combat fansubs, but this is not the way, don't try to just use legal excuses to avoid the effort in adapting and growing as an industry.
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erilot



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 25
Location: INDIANA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:31 pm Reply with quote
I am not a big poster on any forums I read, but just felt the need to post with all the news in the past week. First Geneon going under. The question on whether Bandai will survive. Now going after a fansubber. Sad

Do I download fansubs? Yes, I download lots of fansubs and watch them. BUT I actually do buy lots of anime, manga and related goods. I found out about fansubs at a convention many years ago. I enjoy fansubs, but with a DVD, I can actually watch on my regular TV versus my computer. I am far too lazy to make DVD's of all my fansubs and it is cheaper to just buy them when released in the US (you may wonder how I concluded this, I judge everything by what my billing rate at my job is). Price is never an issue for me, I just buy what I want. Sure, I will take advantage of sales and typically buy more than usual. Right now I am dropping lots of $$ to buy the series from Geneon I want that are complete. I am the person at conventions that easily drops $1,000 on all kinds of anime and related goods.

I am just afraid with all that is going on, the fansubbers will disappear which to me is a shame. Yes, it might not really be entirely legal fansubbing them, but many fansubbers will stop once licensed in the US. Seems to me they are a great way to gain support for a series so when finally released in the US, people will want to buy it.

Now I know there are those who just hate fansubs, those who only download, then those like me who download and buy. You can't please everybody and no matter what happens, one person will be happy, another will be sad. That is just life. I am hoping the anime industry does not just collapse with everything happening. I am just going to sit back, continue to check out ANN each day and see how things play out. That is all we can do as fans. Very Happy
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la_contessa



Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:34 pm Reply with quote
I think this is great--I was just saying in the Answerman thread that companies ought to be stepping up prohibitions on fansubs.

The "legit consumer" has nothing to do with the purpose of copyright law. The "consumer" is not meant to be the primary beneficiary under ANY theory of copyright--the oft most stated purpose is stimulation of creativity through protection of creators' rights. The consumer benefits in that there will be more choices of media (i.e. if anime is profitable, more people will make it), and the consumer also may benefit from higher quality releases as opposed to bootlegs, but the primary beneficiary of copyright law is the creator. Perhaps you're all thinking of trademark law, where protection of the consumer actually does compete with protection of the company as the main purpose. At any rate, copyright law rarely considers the consumer (certain causes of action do reference hypothetical people like "reasonable viewers," but it's not the main issue).
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 pm Reply with quote
... I would have been happier to hear that someone had actually licensed RXJ. *supreme lament*
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:44 pm Reply with quote
ximpalullaorg wrote:
That is good and all, but what is the benefit for the legit consumer?


I think you mean benefit for the legit company.

This action isn't toward people who already buy products.

Besides the fact R1 companies saying that they have been trying to work out a way to come out with quicker releases. And if more people buy anime, prices will come down, and that will benefit the consumer.

Of course I am not saying any of that will happen, because it all hinges on the fact that if this actually does what they want it to do. And I think that is still open to debate. Not to mention you have to climb out of the hole first before you can start waving flags.

I would be slightly more excited about this if they did in fact say they had the license though.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2057
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Omega13 wrote:

While I see (and have seen, reading all your various posts in the Geneon threads) your stance on the issue, the groups that spring up from this also tend to be...lacking...in the quality department. Depending on who decides to ignore the C&D and continue, it might not even be worth downloading the show anymore, regardless of your stance on fansubs.


Possibly true. If you are talking about visual quality I doubt it because of the ease of re-encoding things. If you are talking about translation quality then yeah this could hurt. We'll just have to see.

As far as "how people will react" I suspect that the reaction is probably to be completely unphased by it in the long run. The pirate community will be angry and the rest will be "yay" (like we see here now), but all in all it won't change too much. Most of us at least understand the reason why they are doing it, even if we disagree with the policies. I expect that the companies think they need to "defend their rights" even if I think they don't need to myself. So I don't hold it against them that their viewpoint is different. The only thing that will make me hold it against them is if they hit me personally. If they do that then I will have a reason not to support them, and I will use my time doing something else.
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 pm Reply with quote
la_contessa wrote:
I think this is great--I was just saying in the Answerman thread that companies ought to be stepping up prohibitions on fansubs.

The "legit consumer" has nothing to do with the purpose of copyright law.


Of course. But I personally don't benefit from it. Prices don't go down. Releases don't get closer. Companies license stuff months before titles get released then have to wait for the R2 releases :after all this years and global market I'm still seeing protectionism. It's pretty obvious something is going to happen.
Instead of going after single groups, it would be more profitable to go after the criminal organizations that make a profit off illegal obtained material.
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pedrowear



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Once and for all - and this is for anime fans and companies involved - do you really expect people to shell out hundreds of dollars for DVDs of shows they've NEVER SEEN?

Fansubs are the only way to easily test out new anime releases. And no, just watching the first couple of episodes does not do it - what if the show jumps the shark at number 7 and you're stuck with a $250 bill for 26 episodes?

I'm also a big fan of sci fi TV and own a couple of series on DVD - but I watched them all on TV before buying them. Without far, far more anime on TV in North America (matching the ridiculously large amounts being made and licensed) it is absurd to suggest that the anime industry over here can continue to grow without fansubs.
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