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This is interesting.

I have to say I can totally see where Enerccio is coming from.

If you have no use for Dubs and have no issues downloading fansubs, then it does seem that all the industry really does is force you to get the same thing except you have to wait much longer and also pay for it.

Now I say "seems that way" because the factor that that view overlooks is as Richard J. adressed, a healthy US industry does help the Japanese industry in the form of money from licencing.

The question though is how much of a difference does it make? Not to say I don't believe Richard J. However, I've never really had much of an idea of what licences actually cost. Can anyone supply some factual data indicating that, and also how significant that is in relation to the profits from sales in Japan?

ikillchicken wrote:

If you have no use for Dubs and have no issues downloading fansubs, then it does seem that all the industry really does is force you to get the same thing except you have to wait much longer and also pay for it.

(underscore added)

Quote:

The question though is how much of a difference does it make? Not to say I don't believe Richard J. However, I've never really had much of an idea of what licences actually cost. Can anyone supply some factual data indicating that, and also how significant that is in relation to the profits from sales in Japan?

I can't give any figures, but out of interviews and news gotten off of sites like ANN the difference is big. Many Japanese shows would have stayed in the red if it was not for overseas releases. Not to mention it is often said that future project budgets are planned off of predicted overseas sales. Which means shows they feel will do well in foreign markets will have more money allocated in there budget, which usually means better animation. So to say the least, the difference is significant. Probably on the order of hundreds of millions of dollars they would otherwise not have, although that is just a guess.

ADV at Comic-con about 3 yrs ago said a lot of titles wouldn't be made if not for foreign money so if it dries up, Japan will have less money to make new anime with. Their comment was almost any tome you see "Anime Title Committee" in the credits, there are often foreign investors putting up money on the ground floor to get a shot at landing the license.
Not that it always works--one of the titles they named that they invested in was Tactics which they chose not to release (because they don't really do the mild yaoi stuff)

ikillchicken wrote:

This is interesting.

I have to say I can totally see where Enerccio is coming from.

If you have no use for Dubs and have no issues downloading fansubs, then it does seem that all the industry really does is force you to get the same thing except you have to wait much longer and also pay for it.

While it can be argued dubs do delay releases and add some increase in cost (which makes bandai visual's outrageously priced dubless titles all the more hilarious in nature) there still are other things added to various releases aside from dubs. Not all of the companies do them (I particularly dislike ADV's habit of removing extras and detailed menus from thinpacks) but many add tons of extra content you wouldn't get if you just downloaded the episode.

If that someone wanted to consider themselves a real fan they'd buy the release just for that extra content in my humble opinion. Sure they're also paying for the dub they don't want or need, but that isn't too different from how I never use any of the extras on American movie DVDs (except deleted/alternate/extended scenes) but I pay for all the twenty hours of documentaries and audio commentary I never use.

Not to say I couldn't find some sympathy in a poor guy wanting to enjoy anime but he's got very little ground to stand on basically telling everyone "To hell with what you want! I want it my way and only my way!"

Okay, I have a quick question for you all, because something doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Everyone says they found out about anime through fansubs.

But to me, that doesn't make sense all. Considering that you have to find a different resource to look for the anime so you can download it.

How did you find out about RomeoxJuilet? Through the manga?

What about Naruto? Word of mouth?

I mean, there has to be a way you found out about the TITLE of the anime, the GENRE, and SYNOPSIS.

I found a lot of anime through magazines, manga, and websites. And...fansubs are now doing licensed anime too...with bilingual options. >.>;

And people are now asking where to watch anime with English dubs on the net... So...then what?

x_X ah, going off topic a bit, sorry...

If US licenser wants to license and give money to Japanese producer, let them do it and then let they show it on TV instead of dvd only. This way both of them gets money and fansubs are not really an issue (except for free marketing).

tiger: I found anime through two shows on TV (and few movies like Mononoke). But then I came to internet and see that there is lot of fansubbed on it. And since that time I start to watch anime on daily basis. I am anime fan for a year and here are my statistics from myanimelist:
Grand Totals
TV: 62, OVA: 32, Movies: 4, Specials: 5, Episodes: 1,437, Days: 22.17
As you can see it is 3.93 episode per day. There is no way for me to be satisfied by English releases even if I could pay for all... (not to say that I am fan of ongoings too).
And for the picking anime to watch. I will either use anidb to pick a title or download all new ongoings to see how they are and either drop it or continue (this season has 7 ongoings for me, and I am grateful for each fansub that is released).
* Kaiji
* Kodomo no Jikan
* Genshiken 2
* Ef
* Clannad
* Shana
* Neuro

Cue Mastercard music

Enerccio wrote:

myanimelist:Grand Totals
TV: 62,
OVA: 32,
Movies: 4,
Specials: 5,
Episodes: 1,437,
Days: 22.17
As you can see it is 3.93 episode per day.

Total money spent on favorite type of entertainment: $0.

Priceless.

Some things in life are worth buying.

For everything else there's fansubcard.

also lot of it is not even licensed not yet released....

Enerccio wrote:

If US licenser wants to license and give money to Japanese producer, let them do it and then let they show it on TV instead of dvd only. This way both of them gets money and fansubs are not really an issue (except for free marketing).

Anime on TV in the USA is a hard sell. We're lucky just now that we managed to get anime network, though I've been told even they censor their shows. The big issue with anime on TV is its a social taboo. Over here there would be too many people right now that'd probably pan it off as for kids and wouldn't watch anything aimed at an older demographic because of it being animated.

That's why most companies just censor it up and push it to kids, because it's a much easier sell, but then you have to ask yourself if that's really the statement you want to make about anime. Change is coming, but it's very slow and very gradual, as it always unfortunately has been.

Fansubs will always be an issue when a series is licensed. It's not about damage, it's about control. Remember, companies love control and will fight for it tooth and nail. Getting anime on TV uncut would be nice, but it won't change anything about the whole fansub issue.

Quote:

tiger: I found anime through two shows on TV (and few movies like Mononoke). But then I came to internet and see that there is lot of fansubbed on it. And since that time I start to watch anime on daily basis. I am anime fan for a year and here are my statistics from myanimelist:
Grand Totals
TV: 62, OVA: 32, Movies: 4, Specials: 5, Episodes: 1,437, Days: 22.17
As you can see it is 3.93 episode per day. There is no way for me to be satisfied by English releases even if I could pay for all... (not to say that I am fan of ongoings too).

If you work your way up from boxed sets and know where to shop, a little money goes a long way. About 200-250$ a month will usually get you between two to five series or a mixture of series, movies and OVAs. If you pace yourself it easily can last a month. Granted, in the end it becomes more expensive than a drug habit, but I always thought it was worth it. Anime smile

;;;

Quote:

And for the picking anime to watch. I will either use anidb to pick a title or download all new ongoings to see how they are and either drop it or continue (this season has 7 ongoings for me, and I am grateful for each fansub that is released).
* Kaiji
* Kodomo no Jikan
* Genshiken 2
* Ef
* Clannad
* Shana
* Neuro

If you really find you like the anime so much, you really might want to consider buying boxed sets later on. I originally discovered a lot of great titles by downloading them, but I always made a note that sometime later I'd get them when I finally had the money. Like it or not anime is a niche product here and if we don't support it, then we might lose a lot of great stuff we'd never even know about because no one can convince a studio it might be worth the risk. Not just here, but in Japan as well.

You know, that 200-250$/mo is nearly 4500-6000Skk/mo? This is nearly half that my mom is getting for her job.
I could not ask for such a money (and not yet to mention that you cannot buy anime here... only way will be shipping it here from US or somewhere else).
With my unstable income from various part time jobs I get 2$/hour. That will mean that I need to work 100-125 ho/mo to get 5 series.... and yet there mostly is none good in licensed ones.

Only anime that is worth buying dvds for me is Zero no Tsukaima, but it won't be released. Therefore I will buy original dvds from Japan. But this is only for my top anime.

Dargonxtc wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

If you have no use for Dubs and have no issues downloading fansubs, then it does seem that all the industry really does is force you to get the same thing except you have to wait much longer and also pay for it.

(underscore added)

Whats your point?

Dargonxtc wrote:

Cue Mastercard music

Enerccio wrote:

myanimelist:Grand Totals
TV: 62,
OVA: 32,
Movies: 4,
Specials: 5,
Episodes: 1,437,
Days: 22.17
As you can see it is 3.93 episode per day.

Total money spent on favorite type of entertainment: $0.

Priceless.

Some things in life are worth buying.

For everything else there's fansubcard.

Its funny that you clearly meant that sarcastically becuase it actually illustrates an excellent point in favor of fansubs. The biggest advantage of fansubs is they allow those who otherwise could not afford or would not be willing to buy Anime to still see it. You insult him for not spending any money on his favorite type of entertainment, and its basically the same old "you're not a real fan if you don't buy" statement. However, if someone really cant afford Anime so they download, that really actually indicates that they are more into Anime than someone who would just do without then.

ikillchiken: 3 cheers for you, at least someone see it

Basically I registered just to say you that there are many who *need* fansubs, therefore you should not be happy about canceling it.

ikillchicken wrote:

Whats your point?

Point is how dare a company ask for money something that you can already instantly get for free. Companies purpose on this earth is not to make money, I don't care what every book I have ever read on the matter says.

ikillchicken wrote:

illustrates an excellent point in favor of fansubs.

Who says I am anti-fansubs?

ikillchicken wrote:

and its basically the same old "you're not a real fan if you don't buy" statement.

When did I say that?

Before I answer anything please...nevermind Rolling Eyes

As far as everything else you said it goes back to your same old tired "everything should be free" mentality.

ikillchicken wrote:

However, if someone really can't afford Anime so they download, that really actually indicates that they are more into Anime than someone who would just do without then.

Oh I agree 100%, not only are they more legitimate as fans, they have superior intelligence. It goes right along the lines of starving children enjoy food more than people who eat. Although I have never known anyone to die from not watching anime. But damn if they don't have a God given right to enjoy any form of personal entertainment that they choose, and damn the torpedos!!!

ikillchicken wrote:

Its funny that you clearly meant that sarcastically becuase it actually illustrates an excellent point in favor of fansubs. The biggest advantage of fansubs is they allow those who otherwise could not afford or would not be willing to buy Anime to still see it. You insult him for not spending any money on his favorite type of entertainment, and its basically the same old "you're not a real fan if you don't buy" statement. However, if someone really can't afford Anime so they download, that really actually indicates that they are more into Anime than someone who would just do without then.

Didn't I tell you to stop with the stupid devil's advocate crap?

Dargonxtc: whats your point? Now all who cannot afford to watch anime should stop watching at all?

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