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NEWS: Gonzo Halts Romeo×Juliet Fansub with FUNimation's Help

They're not dumb people, the people that run these companies. They know all this. There's just a lot of red tape involved in making the changes that need to take place. Meanwhile, this is a good first step. I hope it's not the last.

Omega13 wrote:

Zac wrote: Also, if the show "jumps the shark" at episode 7 and you're buying the DVDs, you could always, you know, stop buying the DVDs and resell or trade the ones you bought already. There are a lot of holes in your argument. There is, however, the occasional series that does the exact opposite of jumping the shark (is there a term for that?). Anyway, Mai Hime comes to mind here. For the first few episodes it seems like its just cute girls fighting the monster of the day, some sexual overtones and well-placed misunderstandings, yadda yadda. Then around episode 10 (I think) it changes to more of a 'Oh Shi-! There're actually consequences for this!' Had I not watched that far (which, incidentally, is as far as I got in fansubs until real life kicked my rear, but the full series is currently on order with TRSI), I probably would've thought, 'yea, it would be fun, but it's not worth me buying it'.

You could still continue to buy the dvds after, just an example, reading in a magazine or online how the story continues and the mood darkens, or a well-informed friend tells you about it.

Omega13 wrote:

Also for the 'watch it all first' side of the argument, there're episodes 25 and 26 of Eva.

The arthouse direction of the series begins way further back, at least around ep. 16, IIRC.

would you even have known about the broadcast order without fansubs?

Well, and I can decide to buy their DVDs or go for R2 versions. Usually it's the second choice, for this and other reasons not worth discussing. Mostly is due extremely late releases (like, to make a recent example, Funimation's Witchblade). It's good they're fighting piracy, but that has little meaning to me if something (not necessarily price eh) doesn't change for the better after a while.
And criminal organizations may have to be dealt with police..but they're the ones chopping the market more.

The cost? Samurai Champloo, at Amazon.ca for about $30 each disk, the entire series, after tax, $236.13 - a pretty big investment.
And yes, watching the entire thing for free is exactly how people watch this in Japan - before buying the series they like on DVD. Not to mention, that's exactly how it works with TV shows here in North America.

I for one hope this news means FUNimation picked up Romeo x Juliet, that series is surprisingly good.

Ah well, this will cause a huge backlash against Gonzo and Funimation - these will be the next two companies to fold.

In the meantime, that's too bad that nobody will ever be able to see the completion of Romeo X Juliet except for those living in Japan. Once again separatist ideas will lead to negativity and economic ruin.

I think this is great--I was just saying in the Answerman thread that companies ought to be stepping up prohibitions on fansubs.

The "legit consumer" has nothing to do with the purpose of copyright law. The "consumer" is not meant to be the primary beneficiary under ANY theory of copyright--the oft most stated purpose is stimulation of creativity through protection of creators' rights. The consumer benefits in that there will be more choices of media (i.e. if anime is profitable, more people will make it), and the consumer also may benefit from higher quality releases as opposed to bootlegs, but the primary beneficiary of copyright law is the creator. Perhaps you're all thinking of trademark law, where protection of the consumer actually does compete with protection of the company as the main purpose. At any rate, copyright law rarely considers the consumer (certain causes of action do reference hypothetical people like "reasonable viewers," but it's not the main issue).

So the debate will start again.
1. How many people who download fansub buy dvds after?
2. How many people who download fansub buy limited edition because they already finish the series and like it so much to buy a LE.
3. How many people who download fansub will if fansub are down buy dvds? Do they have the money? Do they will just quit?

No not really, the primary beneficiary of copyright law was SUPPOSED to be the public in general, not companies. You see, waaay back when the USA was founded, our founding fathers reached a well-thought out compromise. We want to encourage artists of all kinds to create art, we want writers, painters and now movie/game makers to do their thing, as doing so does greatly enrich our culture. Therefore they wanted to add a financial incentive to encourage artists to make art, since they could make money off of it more directly. HOWEVER! This can only be done with a balanced approach, which current copyright law does not have.

You see, to maximise the amount of creative works made an artist needs sources to draw upon. The anime here in question has at least some basis on Romeo and Juliet, a play that shakespeare himself adapted from a previous source. Artists do not create content out of thin air, everything is derrived from something, usually a combination of somethings. So since copyright allows an idea monopoly, this monopoly, as it is not natural one, was greatly limited. It's term was originally (in this country) 14 years (Which was scientifically decided to be the term length of greatest cultural benefit), with the chance of renewal for another 14 only if the author explicitly registered their copyright with the office for a small fee. This gave an artist time to make a fair bit of money before returning his work to the public domain to be the basis of future creative works.

As well certain fair uses were established to allow certain basic rights to not be pre-empted (commentary, right of first sale, etc.) So please, next time you bring up the stated purpose of copyright law, do a little research first.

Watching the entire thing for free is not a "preview", you're just getting the entire product for free. Seeing the first episode for free is a "preview", I guess. People pay $10.50 to see a film they've never seen before based on a 3-minute trailer.

I'd like to know where you're getting the "$250 for 26 episodes" thing when most 26-episode series are released across 5, maybe 6 discs, and are generally priced at online and major retailers around $20. That's closer to $100.

Also, if the show "jumps the shark" at episode 7 and you're buying the DVDs, you could always, you know, stop buying the DVDs and resell or trade the ones you bought already. There are a lot of holes in your argument.