Forum - View topicHey, Answerman: Chick Habit
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
|
|||||||||||||
I personally think cosplaying is about having fun and expressing love for a certain anime. Who cares what people think? You should be having fun, first. I'm not saying cosplayers shouldn't try to, say, keep their skin clean and look the best they can, but some people can't HELP if they're heavier than others. I don't think they should be excluded just because we're worried everyone else will think Americans are fat. Let them think what they want. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
panties
 Posts: 93 Location: LazyTown |
|
|||||||||||||
That "good" Sephiroth isn't really good at all in my opinion. The wig is way too short, and you can find costumes of that level of quality on eBay. The Asian Venus and Mars are wearing weird-looking tights, and I think the Luna and Venus in the "bad" picture are actually pretty good. And as far as Sasukes go, I've seen much, much worse than that bad Sasuke picture. (Not to say that it wasn't bad, cause it was, it just wasn't gouge-out-your-eyes awful. That Naruto was really terrible, though.)
This reminds me of something I've never really understood about the American cosplay scene. I've seen a lot of people put down other cosplayers for buying and commissioning their costumes and say things like "Real fans make their own costumes," but why should it matter? If you can sew, good for you. If you can't, it's MUCH better to purchase a totally awesome pre-made costume than to walk around wearing a hideous pile of rags you made yourself.
Why is this necessarily a bad thing? When you cosplay and pose for pictures, you become a model. Pictures of models are often heavily photoshopped, retouched, and airbrushed, because it makes them look better. I wish more Americans would photoshop their pictures before putting them out on the internet for everyone to see, since the difference can seriously be astounding. (Note: This is an animated gif, and it takes a while for the picture to change. You'll definitely see it when it happens, though...) Last edited by panties on Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||||||
There's a difference between being comfortable with your body type and just looking horrible, though. For example, at the con I went to last winter, I met this one girl who was cosplaying Dante from FMA while I was standing in a line; she was a bit heavy, but the outfit was great and looked very nice on her, plus it was obvious she had put a lot of effort into it and was having fun. However, I also saw this group cosplaying the Sailor Senshi, and it was just horrible. Every single one of them was overweight, yet they were forcing themselves into these skin-tight shirts and miniskirts. Worst of all was the posing. It's possible to cosplay and wear something that flatters your body type at the same time, and I think that's really the key. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
Great idea for an Answerman topic and all, definitely nice to get some insight from the female fans, but I obviously saw a debate about female's roles in anime coming when I read the name of this week's column.
I really think this subject is way too overly touchy. So much in fact that I was debating with myself as to whether or not post in here in the first place, but I just couldn't resist!  I mean, yeah, I'm with the lot of you about women being portrayed as sex symbols. It's just plain disgusting, and honestly is one of the very first things that turns me away from any particular series. What I have my major beef with is all of the complaints about women being portrayed as the so-called "damsel in distress." I mean, all I see as the basic idea behind it is nothing more than just the simple fact that sometimes people just need to be saved, even the strongest of us. And the heroes that save these people are only just trying to do something good for the people they care about. Seriously, the way some of you guys are going about this whole thing, it's like "well forgive me for trying to do something nice for you, don't come crying to me the next time a super powerfull evil overlord threatens to kill you." I mean c'mon, even San in Princess Mononoke had to be rescued. 
Then there's this misconception on how some of you think women are being portrayed in shounen series, which is particularly touchy considering the fact that shounen is indeed my favorite genre. I've got to go back and quote what jsevakis said earlier on this matter because he really took a lot of the words right out of my mouth:
But not only that, but I'd say even some of the weaker characters in some shounen series, you know, your Sakuras, Hinatas, Orihimes, Namis or Winrys of the world, who despite being weak physically, I believe are very strong willed women, and think that some of them (Sakura, Hinata, Orihime) are great examples of what sevakis also said earlier that I really agreed with:
But not only that, I also see a positive role in the case of those women being very kind, loving and caring with the men in their lives, and with people in general. That said, I'd say my 4 favs (both shounen and all time favs) in Naruto, FMA, Bleach (large breasts be darned) and One Piece are all great examples of series that portray all of their women positively. I think a lot of you would be very surprised at the positive way they're portrayed in these series. Another great female character that comes to mind that doesn't seem to be mentioned very much, Lacus Clyne from Gundam Seed. Probably the perfect example of the kind of female character I admire. Very courageous and strong willed, a great leader, very wise and logical, and a very loving and caring person. Not very strong physically or anything, but she really doesn't need to be. One of my all time favs, that's for sure. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
perpetual159
 Posts: 32 Location: Washington D.C., United States |
|
|||||||||||||
|
There's one thing Mr. Answerman forgot to mention in his answer which I thought was very important in regards to the first question. Obviously, Japanese society influences the way characters are created for anime, especially female characters. Yes, if they're strong, they tend to be a sex object. If they're a shrinking violet, they're still "cute" and in the end, still a sex object. However... Japanese society didn't have this problem back in the day. This objectivity didn't rise until the country was plagued by the western influence. The Japanese at the time didn't treat their women like objects nearly as much up until the westerners arrived with their frail women, blah blah blah. There was a time when women were just a free as men and were strong. But such is life. Our global society has always been soooo fond of using labels... it'd be a shame to stop now..... Right.... :-/ (By the way, I'm being sarcastic with that last comment, if you haven't noticed).
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18177 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||||||||
Then you weren't watching closely; the impractical costume design alone promotes it. (The shoulder armor is there only for show and the lower leg armor is there mostly so they can make that distinctive metallic "click" sound when they walk.) It was certainly there, just not as blatant as in most series. But I'll agree it was nice to see how much they varied the builds on the Claymores, and they did at least avoid the unrealistically busty looks. And as someone else said, you won't find any good female role models off of that show (except perhaps Miria) but not because they're over-sexualized.
Er, how does that make it any different than live-action porn? They're all mostly made as wish-fulfillment exercises for guys, after all. Hentai games, too. (Hmmm, the words of Yamazaki from Welcome to the NHK come to mind at this point. . .) And really, that's hardly the stiffest thing in hentai that anyone should be complaining about. (Blatant rape scenes, anyone?) |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
ichido reichan
|
|
|||||||||||||
|
why girls these days get off so much on two female looking "men" having forced sex to each other? that is something I would like to know....
also SakechanBD you own the truth, I always go for the 400+ 500.00+ costumes because I can't sew for my life and I suck at arts and crafts, but a premade costume makes me look badass and people really dont care if you did it or not, now to look good no matter what your costume is, thats the key of cosplaying, that the people around you see you and they forget that was a person, they just remember that a character just walked by and you got to see it live. Sephirot is overrated, I seen plenty of well made sephirots around and there is always a good one that nails the costume/character. Cosplay cannot be compared between USA and Japan venues, Japan has all the support of a huge network, industries and big corporations and the cosplay events in japan are like the beauty pageants in USA, there are tons and unlikely a japanese looking girl will win, they go mostly for the blond, blue eyes, or the smoking hot african american girl... therefore, In the cosplay industry, we are behind a bunch of years but creativity and effort has reversed all this, and now you can find some costumes that are even better than the japanese ones. Still, in Japan these people are professional cosplayers that invest a great ammount of money and effort in making their costumes as realistic as possible and the industry is supporting them with tv shows, magazines, all kind of events and exposure, Here, just people wonder themselves..."geez, these kids need to grow up..." we need bigger events and bigger industry support to compete against them, so for the time being....just let them (japan) get all the honors, after all, this anime manga thingy was invented by them...for them |
||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15296 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
Tyrenol:
They're in Eyeshield and City Hunter. You might also want to check out Nadia and Utena, although I'm not completely sure her and Anthy are black. There's also Tokyo Tribes, and, if you are willing to call it anime, Boondocks. Oh, and I just remembered Macross. Xenofan:
But the men still end up treating the women like crap, and come off less mentally disturbed, so I'd say it actually just enforces the otaku status quo. Murasaki:
BTW, regardless of the population, the pop culture has caught on there.
Well if Japan wants to appeal to Americans, they gotta have shows which represent more people of color. I know our own shows don't do that enough, but business is business...
Colleges admit minorities, because they either worked to get in, or because they're trying to make up for the rich white people like Bush who didn't do a thing to get in, but who managed to get accepted, anyway. And if many of those minorities are paying taxes which go to those universities, why should only a few of them be given the opportunity to attend?
Yeah, well, if they do that with bishonen and big-boobed chicks, they can do it with black people. CCS:
You still get more content for Bleach than Gunbuster vs Diebuster. Last edited by GATSU on Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||
Actually, thats because the writer made a mistake. He is cosplaying Kadaj from Advent Children, not Sephiroth. That said, I sort of agree with the article. However rather than to say that Americans should not cosplay, I would say You shouldn't cosplay unless you do it right, and statistically it seems like you see alot more really half assed efforts here than in Japan. Ofcourse, that may be a result of us simply not seeing all the half assed Japanese efforts. (Although maybe this is because most japanese people have the sense not to post their crappy effort online, which I must give them credit for.) Infact, my initial oppinion of cosplay was that it was just stupid because you don't look even slightly like the character you're supposed to be. I realise now that it is possible to do a good enough job to look good. Still, I've seen very little evidence of particularilly good efforts from American fans. I guess it may just be a matter of oppinion, but my stance on it is still that its stupid to do it if you don't even end up looking like the character. All this asside, I don't think it says anything about how fat and/or attractive Japanese people are vs American people.
But thats because attractive people are preferable to ugly ones. Not to say that any time you give a character big boobs they automatically become better, sometimes it can just be annoying or stupid or out of character. However, at the very least, there is a genuine advantage to having attractive characters even if there are also disadvantages that maybe outweigh the good. Theyre not just making them attractive for the sake of upping the number of a certain group or people. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Tatsujin
Posts: 2 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
This article reminded me that for every creepy misogynist otaku in Akihabara there's an equally messed up fujoshi hanging out at Otome Road in Ikebukuro.
In this regard, anime and other media can simply be used as a vehicle to power one's own idealizations of the opposite sex. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
Jerseymilk
 Posts: 157 Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know. |
|
|||||||||||||
You've taken my point way out of context. I meant when comparing the photos that that article does. All the Asian ones are retouched and airbrushed. Notice the majority of the American ones aren't? That was the point I was making. Just the quality between the photographic comparisons shows an obvious flaw in the person's reasoning. I don't care if people want to shop their photos until they're glowing flourescent orange. That's their choice. And I agree that photos always call for a bit of tweaking, to fix bad lighting, etc. Though some cosplayers feel when the cosplayer no longer even looks remotely human, the retouching has been overdone, but opinions differ among cosplayers. I do however agree with you about not understanding why some cosplayers look down on those that don't make their costumes from scratch. I for one can't sew worth a lick, so if I want to cosplay a certain character, I would prefer to buy/commission from someone else that knows what they're doing so that my cosplay will actually look good and not like some raggedy bits of cloth hanging clumsily on me. Some feel it's the effort that counts, but personally, I have too much pride for that. ikillchicken: If you say that you see very little evidence for good American cosplay, then you need to look into the North American cosplay scene more. There are a lot of outstanding cosplayers here, many who work very hard on their costumes to make them look as good and accurate as possible. dormcat: I apologize if I misunderstood your intent and that you weren't serious. Which is why I stated in the first place I was suprised at the post coming from you. However, the post comes across as totally serious and not satirical at all, and judging from Zak's, SakechanBD's, and jsevakis's posts to you, I wasn't the only one that took it at face value. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||
I find it interesting that you add that qualifier. How good is "as possible"? If its still not that good, I stand by my point that its stupid if you don't even look like the character. I admit I haven't exactly gone looking for proof/disproof of this, Im just going by what I've seen. Could you provide some examples of good North American cosplays? Also, regardless of wether there are good ones out there, it is irrellevant to the issue of all the truely terrible ones out there. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
panties
Posts: 93 Location: LazyTown |
|
|||||||||||||
What to you mean by "remotely human?" Do you mean like when people do things like shop pictures of their anime character's head on their body, or when they shop their pictures so much that there are no noticeable flaws anywhere on their skin or costume? Cause I'll agree with you that this is extremely creepy, but if you practice it a lot and can do it very well, I don't see what's so bad about shopping yourself to look like a supermodel before you put your picture out on the Internet for all the world to see. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
OGT
 Posts: 10 Location: Ole Kennituck |
|
|||||||||||||
|
Okay.
It's true, the majority of females in anime are objectified to some extent. You've got the catgirl maids, you've got the helpless sad girls in snow, you've got whatever. What they don't want you to know, however, is that this is all perfectly fine and dandy--within reason. And reason is rarely breached. Fictional portrayals of women, be they positive or self-affirming, or pantyshot-laden fanservice fiestas, don't have a damn bit of influence over anyone's conception of women unless they let them have influence. It's a simple matter of brainpower: there's no rule written down that states that if you watch Zero no Tsukaima, you are from that moment on going to think of women as objects. It doesn't take much mental effort to separate "fictional girls" from "real girls", and it takes even less to separate "anime girls" from "real girls". As long as you have a clearly distinct line between fantasy and reality, there's nothing wrong with indulging in a little spot of pantyshots with boob jiggle on the side. There is a good portion of the human race who does have this line blurred, of course, but there's probably a larger portion who can tell the difference. And it's not like there's no unrealistic portrayals of men in anime either. Shoujo anime, esepcially of the yaoi variety, is very, very guilty of this. You don't even have to look into anime to find examples of women's sex fantasies fufulled--we in the literary industry refer to them as "romance novels". These portrayals of tall and handsome, yet sensitive and tender, men are every bit as ludicrous as the wide-eyed, innocent, helpless girl found in anime. It's an idealization process, and one of the functions of art, be it pictorial or verbal in form, is to idealize the human experience in some way. We can have a heroine who is strong and sticks up for what's right (Tanabe Ai from Planetes, Lady Oscar from Rose of Versailles) or we can have a weak, emotionally fragile girl who can't live without the support of men in her life (any given character from Kanon, where the bit about "can't live" is taken to the extreme), and they're both idealized portrayals. You can't escape it. Hell, a good chunk of artists who work on eroge over in Japan are girls. Noiji Ito, who did the original character design for The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and Shakugan no Shana, and did art for Nanatsuiro Drops and Peace @ Pieces, both eroge. It's widely rumored that Poyoyon Rock, character designer of Popotan and Nurse-Witch Komugi-chan, is a girl, although there are strong ties linking her with Akio Watanabe, a male artist, so it could be a weird alter ego or something. CARNELIAN, also a girl, does lots of work for eroge as well, having worked on Kao no Nai Tsuki, Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito, and Touka Gettan. So, women are proliferating the negative, misogynist portrayals of women. And they clearly like their jobs, too, as many of them work on erotic doujin on the side. And, finally, if you still think the portrayals of women in anime is unrealistic and overly sexualized and objectified, then maybe you need to watch different anime, or not watch it at all. Or just laugh at it and move on. Or both. If it's ruining your experience, don't just sit there and whine about it, do something. And, remember, you can't change others--just yourself, and how you react to others. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
panties
Posts: 93 Location: LazyTown |
|
|||||||||||||
Where did you hear this? Akio Watanabe and Poyoyon Rock are the same person; Poyoyon Rock is just a penname. If you look at what's written on his website, Poyoyon Rock is just Akio Watanabe's fictional personal mascot character. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group