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For all those wondering "Why can't the station tell us exactly why they canceled it?", this is how the Japanese roll, so to speak -- whenever there's some uncomfortable or indecorous cause behind some action, it's always explained as "due to various circumstances" or "for certain reasons." It's part of that whole politeness/face-saving thing. At least that's how I see it.

I'm hoping to get the chance to see "Child's Time" in some form or another. This series wasn't even on my radar until the manga controversy seared across the pages of ANN, but after reading 18 or so chapters, I've found it to be a funny, sometimes emotional storyline, all while being very very "wrong." I don't read it to get a glimpse of Rin's panties; I read it to see what kind of crazy shenanigans she'll be up to next.

And I know I've made this comparison before, but is KnJ significantly worse than, say, Rizelmine? For the unfamiliar, Rizelmine aired back in '02 and featured an 11-12 year-old girl who declares herself the "wife" of a random hapless middle school boy. Although Rizel is "dangerously innocent" in contrast to the outright sexual precociousness of Rin Kokonoe, Rizelmine has enough underage nudity, pantty-shots, etc. to be cause for concern. And yet when I searched the forums, I coudn't find nearly the level of controversy that this series has incurred. I guess times have changed, or else these kinds of series are generating more public attention these days.

[quote="Maidenoftheredhand"]

Zac wrote:

Notice how I did not say that the station does not have a right to censor Kodomo no Jikan. I was not talking about rights at all. I am well aware that the TV stations in Japan are in their right that does not mean I have to approve of their decision. I am against censorship of any kind unless the material is illegal (even if I personally dislike and disapprove of the material which is the case with Kodomo no Jikan). I am assuming that Kodomo no Jikan is not illegal in Japan.

see this is interesting, cause the networks edited the hell out of the final episode of School Days, and yet i didn't hear any otakus crying "Censorship!". two other networks are airing it anyway (for now), so it's pretty much a non-issue unless you live in Japan. even then you can buy the dvds.

Last edited by Ryllharu on Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total

v1cious wrote:

see this is interesting, cause the networks edited the hell out of the final episode of School Days, and yet i didn't hear any otakus crying "Censorship!". two other networks are airing it anyway (for now), so it's pretty much a non-issue unless you live in Japan. even then you can buy the dvds.

There was a HUGE uproar over the "Nice Boat" incident. Where were you?

No one is complaining about an episode being censored for air, that's nothing new. Pulling a series off the air before broadcast is.

I often forget about Rizelmine. I seem to remember it getting a lot of critical reviews because the main character was often abusive to the "baby wife" (Rizel referred to herself that way in the show). She was always asking for their marriage to be consummated as well, so it does make you wonder what the difference is here.

Talon87 wrote:

Whether you're in favor of or against stories like Kodomo no Jikan, these recent cancellations should tell you one thing: Japan is not so different from the West after all.

I'm on vacation on a very low-speed GPRS connection so this thread is mainly tl;dr, but I just had to comment on that.

Not so long ago, Japan was very, very different from the West. That was its main attraction - something different from the (mainly American) dross that was infesting the West. Now, Japan seems to be rapidly turning into Blamesville, USA. Damn you, Yankees, will you only be satisfied once the whole world is as screwed up as you are?

Zalis116 wrote:

Although Rizel is "dangerously innocent" in contrast to the outright sexual precociousness of Rin Kokonoe

I think this is the key point for why one series is viewed as worse than the other. It's possible to overlook or gloss over the sexual content because it's not accompanied by an outright declaration of intent to be sexual. With Rin, there is clearly intent and and the accomanpaning fanservice is thus something that can't be ignored.

Also, as odd as it strikes me, the few years age difference does seem to be important as well. Rin is "too young" in the minds of most to even be thinking about these things. Although the age of puberty and sexual activity for kids in the US is getting very low. Below double digits isn't nearly as unbelievable as it used to be and that's for all parties concerned.

Plus it seems like the mere fact that Rin seems to understand the sexual nature of her actions seems to offend some people.

Now, I'm going run away before Zac force chokes the daylights out of me. (Ah, I miss Alucard already. Sad

)

I don't know what the series is about in any way so I tried looking it up on wikipedia. An actual synopsis wasn't present, but the description they did have was sickening enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphet If the Japanese stations won't air Nymphet, I'm thinking there's a good reasons considering the titles we've seen aired in the late night time slots.

lord-darkseid wrote:

I don't know what the series is about in any way so I tried looking it up on wikipedia. An actual synopsis wasn't present, but the description they did have was sickening enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphet If the Japanese stations won't air Nymphet, I'm thinking there's a good reasons considering the titles we've seen aired in the late night time slots.

You do realize that's not the entry for the anime/manga Nymphet, but rather the general term, correct? Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan instead.

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

lord-darkseid wrote:

I don't know what the series is about in any way so I tried looking it up on wikipedia. An actual synopsis wasn't present, but the description they did have was sickening enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphet If the Japanese stations won't air Nymphet, I'm thinking there's a good reasons considering the titles we've seen aired in the late night time slots.

You do realize that's not the entry for the anime/manga Nymphet, but rather the general term, correct? Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan instead.

That Wiki article still beats round the bush as to what the main controversial issue was though. More than just a "crush".
Still I wonder just what the TV station Programme Manager was thinking when he/she bought the licence for this title? Perhaps they previewed it before TX ,and what they saw shook them to their paycheques. I can just hear what the Station General Manager had to say about this. "You WHAT? ARE YOU INSANE? PULL IT! PULL IT NOW!" Anime hyper

JKid-
My teen years were spent in a darker, colder place than the SoCal I was born in & currently reside in. I became used to the local channel there pre-empting various shows I wanted to see, replacing them with National Geographic specials. Even when the TV Guide said it would be "show this girl wants to see", I'd tune in to see birds. fish, anything else but the show I wanted to see.
And no, there was never a reason for it.

It won't be dead air.

Rizelmine?
Grasping at straws much?
God. Let's see. I didn't care a hell of a lot for it, but as I recall she was some experiment (so read Mahoromatic/Dears/slavegirl) randomly assigned to the boy so she could reach the next level of development or some such fluff. (I prefer Ryuga's jokes in Mahoromatic about only being 3 yrs old when he looks much older). The boy was MUCH closer in age (It ain't statutory rape until he's 18. 2 minors engaging in sex is 2 minors engaging in sex. Yes there's age spread issues-is there more or less than a 4 yr spread in age? If he's 18 & she's 12-yes there are issues. Is a 17-yr-old going to jail on his 18th birthday if he doesn't give up his 17-yr-old g/f until she turns 17?) He NEVER asked for a fiancee & doesn't want the...glory? pleasure? whatever--of being her fiancee. It wasn't anywhere in my top 100 manga, trust me. It seemed very much a throw-away & I doubt we would have seen it here if not for DNAngel.

You can see the dif between 2 teens (ie-less than 8 yrs apart in age) & a 30-something & an 8 yr old (2 decades). Yes, it's still there to appeal to the same likely 20-50 yr old male audience, but making it a "high school romance" makes it more acceptable. If she were 5 there would be more concerns about a teen-age fiancee, but it's still a smaller age spread than Jikan. 2 teens are still more "learning together" as opposed to a much older "corruptive agent" adult.

And all that one link about the protest to the American drama does is support pulling Jikan. Want it to air & get the Japanese PTA on it's case? From what people say, they're a pretty powerful force. Direct to DVD might be best.

Lol what is everyone arguing about? The anime has already been made, and will be shown one way or another eventually. Nothing will change that. End of story.

lol, i dunno about you guys, but im not worried.

Remember, for the fans of this series. In the end we can all just access this through scanlations, because there will always be fans who are fluent in Japanese that would be willing to translate it for the less fortunate ones. If scanlations aren't enough to satisfy those who want to collect it, they can always just import the manga from Japan and have the original form of it. I actually imported the manga from japan and from reading the scanlations, its a enjoyable series.

its interesting how 2 of the 4 stations removed the show, but i don't really care. ill just look forward to the release from the other two stations.

Also, i have noticed that theres some smart posts here and i really do like reading the discussions on the reasons to "why Kodomo no Jikan is getting canned". But in between those posts i see clowns saying stuff like "Dude, That's wrong...a 9 year old "having a crush" and "putting a sexual attitude" towards an older teacher...That's wrong. period Wrong...", i wont point fingers or refer to the post. but in my opinion, this post is kinda like another Kodomo no Jikan hate or love match.

AND ANOTHER thing, i like Case's posts especially the one on Page 4, about the differences between ethics and technical standards. i'm not trying to provoke anything, but i would like to know what Zac has to say to that. its a.... interesting debate, in a way.

I don't really consider finding a sexual relationship between a nine-year old and a teacher to be objectional as all that clownish.

Ioriya wrote:

Also, i have noticed that theres some smart posts here and i really do like reading the discussions on the reasons to "why Kodomo no Jikan is getting canned". But in between those posts i see clowns saying stuff like "Dude, That's wrong...a 9 year old "having a crush" and "putting a sexual attitude" towards an older teacher...That's wrong. period Wrong...", i wont point fingers or refer to the post. but in my opinion, this post is kinda like another Kodomo no Jikan hate or love match.

AND ANOTHER thing, i like Case's posts especially the one on Page 4, about the differences between ethics and technical standards. i'm not trying to provoke anything, but i would like to know what Zac has to say to that. its a.... interesting debate, in a way.

That guy looking at 18 life sentances down south might have made similar arguments about the dif between ethics & technical standards. Hey, after enough threats, the boy didn't even want to escape, did he?

Mohawk made a comment on one of the threads over the split likely falling between those of us with a child of our own or a sibling we care enough about to worry about pedofiles being incited over titles like this & those who have no such tie to a real child.

NO ONE HERE IS A PEDOFILE

ok?

You're all high-minded. You're reading/watching Jikan for everything EXCEPT the sex angle. But accept that dude who got the 18 life sentances might also have watched stuff like that, downloaded pix off the net. UNDERSTAND the side of parents NEVER wanting to see their kid kidnapped & harmed, maybe found yrs later as skeltal remains?

Can you see how scary it is? Where do the reasonable sorts end & the slimy pedofiles start?
And yeah, cry all you want over violence. I never bought into that, but I knew lots of parents who wouldn't let their darlings play with war toys. The Brownie leader of the troop my daughter belonged to DESPIZED Matrix. You couldn't mention it without her going off on her little anti-gun tirade for minutes on end.

We all have out little soapboxes. Yeah, I've seen the "You can cut off a woman's breast & it's ok, but kiss it & it's evil!!!!!!!!!" Whoopie. If that's your soapbox, fine. I took my then 8 yr-old to The Matrix & Halloween H2O because I could explain to her how they FAKED killing people-that it wasn't real. Teen pregnancy is a real issue. (Someone my 16 yr old knows just gave birth to her 1st baby. Yeah sex, eh? Who cares about school?) My teen didn't see sex scenes until she was 14 or so (Austin Powers, James Bond-nope)

My parental choice, not yours.

But can you see when we parents read about kids abducted & molested why we worry? Can you conceive of being willing to die to protect your child? Most parents who care voice that sentiment. The others aren't really parents, but that's a whole other kettle of fish (neglect, abuse, etc)

And lots of parents are a lot more draconian in their attitudes. I hear the Japanese PTA has gotten shows cancelled before. Do you want this on their radar? They're worked up about their darling virginal daughters exposed to the sex in shojo. What if one of them couldn't sleep one night & caught a glimpse of this title? You don't think it's better to go straight to dvd? Yeah, sure, a mommy might still get worked up, but the shojo protest seemed to involve age ratings not applied, so Jikan, straight to dvd, would likely have a proper age rating attached so the mommies would have less room to scream.

Case wrote:

I have no "agenda", and as I've said before I object to you treating me as an examplar. I am an anime fan whose tastes have changed since I joined this site. Until you can accept that there are real people who feel that way, and that they're not just idiots whose opinions don't count, you're going to keep hearing about this from somebody.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. Of course there are real people who feel that way. Real people also think gay marriage is evil and wrong, real people also think we went into Iraq because Saddam Hussein caused 9.11, real people think Elvis is still alive. That someone genuinely believes in a particular viewpoint does not make it right or valid automatically.

Are they idiots whose opinions don't count? Depends on how stupid the things they're saying are. Is everyone who defends Kodomo no Jikan some kind of slobbering creepy pedophile? No, but I think there are a lot of misguided people who think that viciously attacking anyone who has a problem with the content is somehow "stickin' it to the man" or crusading for free speech, neither of which are true.

Quote:

The "standards" you refer so enthusiastically in your post are ethics. They are not technical standards like a camera's shutter speed. Ethics are all shades of gray and one person's ethical failing looked at another way is another person's ethical success; hence pro-life and pro-choice. (Not "pro-abortion.")

I happen to think anti-abortion people are, objectively, wrong. I also happen to believe that my ethics are sound and correct, and that those who are diametrically opposed to them are potentially not people I would want to spend time with. Most people do not live in a world of absolute total subjectivity, to the point where they have no convictions and feel passionately about nothing - my ethics are not "totally arbitrary and subjective" to me, they are rules and guidelines by which I live my life. Other people think I'm wrong. That's their right, but I'm not going to sit around all day and say "Yeah heh well I might be wrong". Why would I spend so much time undermining my own argument and my own sense of right and wrong?

Quote:

You have a strong ethical stance on pedophilia. Very well. But it's not a technical standard; not an absolute defense. Freedom of expression and thought are also admirable ethics to pursue. Through your ethical lens, Black Lagoon may be irrelevant, but through someone else's free speech lense it is totally not. How can you expect your point of view to even be taken seriously, when your espoused views don't attempt to take anyone else into account?

Again with the "you have to admit that you're not right about what you believe in order for anyone to take you seriously" thing. Case, you feel really, really strongly that Kodomo no Jikan is totally fine and nobody should have a problem with it, and you're arguing that standpoint because you think you're right. You haven't sat there and talked about how potentially wrong you are or how your argument doesn't take anyone else's "position into consideration". But you expect me to because you "know you're right" and you're dying to hear me say "Eh well I could be wrong", but that isn't going to happen because - and I know this is going to be a HUGE shock for you - I argue on this matter because I think I'm right, and I think you're wrong. I know, how totally ridiculous and stupid that is, right?

Quote:

You call my opinions in this matter "rhetoric". This is the very spirit of the anti-moe environment on this site, and my frustration with that is what keeps me coming back to threads like this, not some mysterious "agenda".

Your posts read like they're from some kind of a Pro-Loli Coalition Talking Points website. That's why I call it rhetoric, because that's what it sounds like.

There are a lot of people out there who seem totally dedicated to ensuring that nobody ever has a problem with sexualized depictions of children and most of them use the same few arguments - "it's not harming real kids" "we're not actually pedophiles" "FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH" and my favorite "there is no innuendo in Kodomo no Jikan and the people who say there is are perverts!!", which is basically like looking at the sky, saying it's green, and then when someone says "No you idiot it's blue" they say "No YOU are the idiot!". If it wasn't so hilariously stupid and made me laugh, I'd probably start using needle drugs to make the pain go away.

Quote:

Everyone is free to find Kodomo no Jikan offensive, but make sure you know where what you find offensive appears in context before you complain.

Uhm...ok....how about a little girl showing the panties to his teacher in the floor expecting him to have a suggestive reaction? or the many attempts of the main character to "offer" herself to the teacher..." or the reviews of the american publishing companies that put "she will win his heart or have him fired, whatever happen first!!" and the list goes on and on, and that is not amusing to me in a little bit.

again, for somebody who raised many children until today..I tell you....

Children do not have these desires!! they always look as you as a kind person, they would want to hold hands or a hug or for you to make them laugh, but this affection comes from dicovering the world, and to be appreciated beyond the child's mom and dad, but for the few reviews and pages that I check on Kojikan...What is the point, eh? at least South park represent the real voices hidden in a comedy show..."Cartman joins nambla" that episode comes to mind about Kojikan..."Dude..you want to have Sex with kids" what's wrong with it? Everything!!! there are plenty of anime comedy titles to enjoy... this piece of crap, for what I saw...Naah...

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