Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Asks America to Stop Illegal Net Releases of Anime
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Random_Visitor
Posts: 2 Location: Texas, USA |
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I haven't really read all the way through all the replies, but it seems as if everyone has a strong opinion...
I just wanted to get my 2 cents in (hopefully without getting attacked) (BTW I'm not used to forum posting, so if I do/say something wrong, my bad) Anyway. I don't think there is a right and wrong to this issue. But some of you feel that fansubbing is a "Wrong", and I can understand. Other of you feel fansubbing is a helpful thing. I can also see where you are cming from. I've been introduced to them this year. But someone had mentioned Netflix in a reply. I didn't get to actually read the actual person's reply, but I think Netflix is a great way for people to rent anime and judge them. It's like renting from Blockbuster, only 100 times better (I am a HUGE Netflix fan, and I support it 100%) The only thing is that they don't have a huge selection. But it is much bigger than your local Blockbuster store (and the Blockbuster online last time I checked) Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who thinks that renting anime is wrong? I mean, it's like renting movies from here. Some way, some how the people gets some kind of money in their pockets... AND it's not stealing. BTW, on a side note, if they want us to stop all tha downloadin', how am I to ever see any of the funnier shorter shows that will never be licensed in America in 100 years? Anybody who has more of an insight know about that? Every comic book shop and/or DVD store simply cannot carry all the anime for everyone. Y'know? |
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Steventheeunuch
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Assuming Tommy has more money or isn't easily satisfied with whatever is running on TV. As a side note, a lot of the reason why longer TV shows are made is to sell merchandise. More nice OAV/13-52 episode series do require a certian level of intese fan support, where every single sale to the last detail count (*and admittedly, they're not getting them), but for a show like Naruto or Pokemon, they're here to sell video games, or toys, so if they can sell a tremendous load of those then they've basically done their job. Mind you, I'm not saying you should do this or that, it's just another aspect of the situation that isn't taken in to account. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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12 Kingdoms, Story of Saiunkoku, Virus, Martian Successor Nadesico, Blue Seed, Saint Seiya, Loveless, Sukisho, Gakuen Heaven, No Money, Level C, AD Police, Adventures of Mini Goddesses, Nuku Nuku, Nanako, Angel Feather, Angelic Layer, Apocalypse Zero, Appleseed, Aquarian Age, Arc The Lad, Arcadia Of My Youth, Area 88, Argentosoma, Armitage, Ayakashi:Horror Tales, Azumanga Daioh, Babel II, Bastard, Battle Angel, Berserk, Black Lion, Blood, the Last Vampire, Blue Remains, Blue Seed, Borgman OVA, Boys Be, BTX, Brain Powered, Brigadoon, Burn Up: Excess, All bought without seeing them on TV first. I could go on, but I do have 2000 dvds. It's simply a matter of buyer beware/knowing one's own tastes. I like Go Nagai, so I check out titles based on his stuff. I like Clamp, so I check out stuff based on their stuff, although I tend to be more disappointed in the anime versions (never as good as the manga) Same for Azumanga Daioh-loved the manga first. FMP-can't recall if I read the manga before the anime. I remember waiting for the manga on SDK & planning to wait for the box, but breaking down & buying it. My #1 source of ref is Newtype & this site. I read the "New in Japan" so I am aware of stuff like 12 Kingdoms & Shonen Onmyoji before they hit. I love Takehito Koyasu's work as a voice actor, so I check out all titles he's involved in according to this site-do I want to buy them as they're released or in a box or pass entirely? Do I want to buy XXXX? Check out the cast & subject description at ANN if I haven't seen anything in Newtype. It's not hard & one doesn't have to rely on tv or fabsubs. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I think it depends on how the term is used, but I still think the term is a bad one. Let me give my context on this. While you are right about "legal right" when copyright was originally created it was to give incentives to producers. It was a "tax" on society to allow for this. It wasn't intended to create "intellectual property" or to give people the idea that they own things like this. I may legally hold rights to e-mail, but I don't literally own it. I can't literally own it because unlike physical property it can be copied (even if such copying is in a more limited manner such as just influencing someone else, etc.) I'll admit that the way the term is used here is more common than my more restrictive use of the term. I'd agree with your point though for the most part.
I don't go on to buy it only if I don't like it enough, and in that case I never watch the whole thing. I don't speak for others on that, but I tend to buy everything eventually. It may take me time but I will eventually buy everything including what I'm watching on TV now. I just have limited money. An extra 30$ is beyond my budget. I could prove that. I'm honestly not spending a lot of money on entertainment outside of anime. I do have a wow account and I do buy games, but I also spend as many hours on that as anime, so it'd make little sense for me not to spend money on it.
I'm not saying people should start paying overall less than they did in the past. Before I downloaded or watched on TV, I didn't buy anime at all. I started buying anime after downloading. I don't think I would have started buying it otherwise. I think those like me are a group that is underestimated in size. But I could be wrong. Sadly there are not statistics enough to prove such a thing easily. I have nothing against your legal download ideas/etc except I have some expectations on how they should work (no DRM, reasonable quality, etc.). I also genuinely think that pursuing free sites is a bad idea since there isn't going to be money to be found there. They are going to lose more than they gain. If they increase legal action against bootlegging though or against forced-pay sites I have no problems with that.
CCSYueh, on this particular point I think one could say the same concerning DVDs. How do we really know the money is going to produce the anime we like? We really don't. How do we know it's getting to the actual people involved? We don't. This is going to be true regardless. I also do realize that DVD sales are more necessary for this than American TV, or I'd be buying as much American TV as I buy anime. Guess what? I haven't bought any American TV. So you are kind of preaching to the choir on that. Do you just not believe me when I say I purchase dvds? Last edited by Xanas on Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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I'm still sure that there are titles you still haven't heard of as of yet. Even older titles that have been shown in the US already. It's not like all the shows in America are released in Japan anyway. Is it really that big of an issue that you can't watch EVERYTHING that airs in Japan? o_o I wanna see Kite: Liberator. I wanna see the Live Action Saikano movie (which I hope VIZ will get). I want to see Gundam 00. "WANT" not "NEED."  I want to win a million dollars. >.>; The lottery isn't doing much for me there.
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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From the bottom up: Be glad Tommy is buying anything at all. Actually- the Sgt Frog toys thing is false. In Michigan, We have a story called Wizzywig. They import the latest toys over from Japan. And when Is ay from Japan I mean from Japan. Lisenced plushies. I've got more than m share of their toys and the ones I have with me are from Branpesto. I was buying One Piece merch before it hit our shores. A year or two before it hit our shores. And just like with mostly anything esle legal, Brandpesto has to pay the creators to use their charcters. Wizzywig buys these toys and I buy from them. Suppourting no? I doubt ADV is buying bootleg toys and selling them in stores here. Are you going to tell me that out of those 2000 dvds you don't have a single one that you wish you hadn't bought? That you picked up because someone else said it "rocked their socks" and "it was the best" and you got it and it was crud? No type of reviewing of single dvds prepares you for a show sucking at episode 26/26. |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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I'm not really getting what you're trying to say there. And if you reaaaallly wanna know how a show is, why don't you just read summaries of the show? I for the most part preview the series by review (Not critiques, but review w/ spoilers). Ah, come on, haven't you watched a movie in a theater and thought it sucked after watching the whole thing? Someone could tell you a movie sucked, and you went and watched it and actually found it to be the quite opposite. Of COURSE there are occasions. Lessee...I guess I've only regretted buying Sailor Moon S. And the only reason was that it was a bootleg. X_X I wanted the Domestic release. |
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Random_Visitor
Posts: 2 Location: Texas, USA |
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Idk about y'all but I am constantly broke.
And I like buying things from conventions and ebay. I got a DVD set the other day as a gift. The person who bought it for me bought it from a website and got it sent directly to me. When I got it, it was a bootleg copy. I was kinda sad about that. And once I bought a set from ebay. I know for a fact that some 26 episode shows have 3 disc sets, so I went ahead and bought that 3 disc set. But it looked very suspicious to me when it finally came in. So what is a person to do about those kind of situations? Where you are unknowingly supporting piracy? |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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I wasn't being entirely serious. Hence that annoying little emoticon thingy.
The quality should be as near to the physical release as they can make it (otherwise people will just download DVD rips).
The idea of going after free sites / individual users is not to make money but rather to not lose as much money (by scaring off potential downloaders).
So what? If you enjoyed episodes 1-25, was the show really worthless because you didn't like the ending? Is an otherwise great novel also worthless because you don't like the last chapter?
C'est la vie. |
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Steel Angel
 Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
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Agreed CCSYueh. There are many ways to see if a given show or series is worth your time depending on taste, that does not require the use of fansubs. I too have a rather large (part of my collection is open to public view) and growing collection. At first like many fans of Anime, I bought with out thinking, only a slight synopsis or by reading the boxes they came in to base my decisions to buy something. Naturally this lead to a few gems, but also to some horrid wastes of money as far as entertainment value. Given that I've started collecting, some more or less just for completeness sake I still occasionally buy some that are duds. However, unlike my early days, I do not get blindsided by what is going to be a good enjoyable show, and what is going to be just another "part of the collection" that I will only watch once. With the internet there are bounds of resources at peoples finger tips, and that includes the ability to find out what is good and what isn't with out relying on Fansubs. In my opinion, fansubs are something that should be eliminated out right. There are far too many ways to see if any given show/series is worth your money to keep making excuses about getting/using fansubs anymore. And frankly put, again in my opinion, anyone using fansubs is doing just that, making a lame excuse for their self justification of doing something that obviously should not be allowed. Here's to the internet, a 2 edged sword in its own right. |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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For one, I've learned this... Make sure it doesn't say "IMPORT." That for the most part is kind of a bad sign. >.>; I mean in the video aspect it is. But sometimes that doesn't even work... Some Japan DVDs offer English subtitles, but their region DVD is different. Here's a legimite site that actually has DVD imports. It's going to be expensive, of course, but that's how you know it's authentic. http://www.animecornerstore.com/anfanbrspecv.html Read the disclaimer above. I could give you some links to other good sites that have domestic released anime, and you can pay less than MSRP of it. ^^; I'm a big bargain shopper so I always look for a great deal on things I like. I'm curious about YesAsia.com, though...their items are like...legal, right? |
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Steventheeunuch
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Yes, if one wants to be entirely impractical with their money and absolutely waste it on something with utterly no replay value or simply for the sake of having more DVDs than someone, which is what you're basically trying to do considering every single post you make mentions HEY GUYS!! 2000 DVDS!. I dont understand the point you're trying to make. I'm not saying that fansubs are the end-all source of reference. I personally don't use them anywhere near as much as others (and I generally do it for shows that will not come out here and will not see a subtitled release). What I'm trying to say is that there are shows out there that do not nessecerally require DVDs to be purchased in order for people to get paid back for what they do. If fansubs are your method of preference to check out titles you actually will buy, awesome. If not, also awesome. I myself am very picky, and even if the same staff or cast are in something it isn't solidified that I am going to actually like it, or watch more than a few episodes. |
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Steel Angel
Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
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This is the exact reason so many people do use fansubs. They want to see the show once and forget it, and despite all the tripe people try to present to others, they do so because its free. Sure there are a select few that will buy after watching, but given the nature of man (as in man kind) how often do you really think that is? Think I'm off on this, try asking multiple people on the street what they would do if they found a wallet with only 20$ bucks in it. You might be surprised at the answer, as its not nearly as positive as many would think we as people are. In the end, it means the production companies are getting zilch, nor are the authors of such works being compensated for their talents. Thus companies fold, and less gets shipped out of Japan. Greed is part of all of us to some point or another. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I know you were half-serious. I am just an overly serious type and I thought the statement deserved a response anyway.
I couldn't agree with you more on this point. Y'know I hated the ending of evangelion. I also hated end of evangelion  . But the show in general I thought was very good. I don't think a bad ending necessitates a bad show.
Last edited by Xanas on Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steventheeunuch
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I should add that personally, if I do watch a series, enjoy it, but wouldn't watch it again, I would still buy the R1 release if it came out (though maybe not right away). This is only if they cover as much as I have seen, as I dont want to be burned as I did with things like Saint Seiya or Kodocha.
What Japan needs to understand is that the market here is very different. Most people do not care about licensing costs, because if a season of Futurama is $30 and a volume of bleach is $25, they're just going to see the value and go that way, or whatever. Besides which, I think it's all a bit ridiculous. One argument for higher priced DVDs is the high licensing costs. Yet when it's asked for an actual figure, we're told to mind our own business. We're footing a bill that may never end and so people can get kind of burned on that. Not that Im saying things should be done one way or another, but there's only so much pleading and legal action that can be done for this matter. The rest is strategy, and new ideas, something the Japanese need to be more open towards (for example, if people are downloading your stuff en masse on the internet, take the hint) |
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