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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:25 am Reply with quote
I hope the Answerfan portion next week won't just be a bunch of ranting about how Pokemon or Dragon Ball Z are the worst anime of all time. People seem to mention either of these as the worst as an attempt to distance themselves from percieved "kiddie" anime, without considering that Pokemon is essentially a commercial for the games for little children, and thus not really intended to be all that good, and that DBZ is far, far from the worst of even the most generic shonen. But whenever the question of "What's the worst anime ever?" comes up, they will undoubtably turn up. But it's so absurd - it's like calling Sesame Street the worst American television series of all time because it no longer appeals to you in your late teens/early twenties.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:38 am Reply with quote
Other political anime: Gasaraki allegedly had political themes (I haven't seen it for myself), and the recent Code Geass had its share of nationalism and "defeat the Caucasian occupiers" in it. And FMA definitely had those themes -- the most immediate comparison I saw was to the Israeli-Palestinian religious and ethnic conflicts. Man I can't believe it's been nearly 3 years since I watched that series.

Didn't those 2chan users accuse ANN of valuing Korean inbetweeners more simply because they were listed before Japanese key animators? IIRC the listing is in that order because "inbetweener" comes before "key animator" alphabetically. So the Latin alphabet is really to blame here. And regarding the N-word, I think we can credit a certain anime-related imageboard for popularizing its use through various memes and events. ("~stole my bike" and "pool's closed" come to mind.)
The Flake's non-haiku wrote:
so much bluster and bile
answer man neither answers nor is
a man, sadly dies alone
Quote:
Such bluster and bile
Neither answerer nor man
Sadly dies alone
Fix'd Cool

Well, fixed for syllabification anyway.
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Ari-chan



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:41 am Reply with quote
Yuukichan's Papa wrote:
It's actually interesting and cool to see this week's theme because my Answerfan answer had to do with racism as well. I'll paste it here:

Quote:
The worst thing I've seen somebody do at an anime convention was a blatant act of racism.

It was at a Fanime, in 2000 I believe. We were in the convention center area, near where the entrance to the masquerade usually was. It so happened that at the same time, there was a Muslim-oriented convention going on, so during certain parts of the day there would be many people from that convention sharing areas with Fanime - many of whom were in traditional clothing. There were a number of audible groans from the milling anime fans, and one girl said something like "This is an anime convention, not a towelhead convention!" loudly enough for everybody to hear. Not everybody laughed or reacted to what was going on, but that it was more than one person was enough for me. I was mortified.

I like to think that anime fans in general are fairly open-minded when it comes to a lot of things. They're usually the ones mentioning (though only partially true) Japan's somewhat more open policies toward homosexuality and toward what kind of material their children are exposed to, yet here in the thick of a group of fans, there were racist jokes being made.

I realize that those people didn't reflect upon the fandom as a whole, nor am I concerned that those being yelled at thought so, but it's still by far the most insensitive thing I've ever seen people do at an anime event.


Now that's just horrible. I'm suprised nobody stould up to call them on it. I know I would have. That's such a digusting act of racism. Seriously, your at an anime convention dressed as a fictional character from a show people in normal society would totally find offensive, where do you get off making fun of actual outfits from other cultures? That really pisses me off, it shows such bad taste to everybody accociated.


Anyway, Great column as usual Answerman! I can't believe people are still getting worked up about the george bush joke. Talk about stupidity.


Also, some very entertaining answers in the answerfan column. As a regular con go-er and a former Anime club president, I have lots of relatable experiences.

I know my worst experience was when I was literally getting sexually harrased at a con when dressed as Mikuru from The Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. I met a Haruhi cosplayer who felt this dire need to get to into character. At first I was going along with it, as it was playful groping (the Mikuru norm) and was acting my character, then it all went to hell when she actually tried to undress me. I was telling her to stop but she continued to stay in character. People started gathering around and cheering and laughing, but I was embarrased that she was lifting my skirt and shirt up for the world to see. It was when she bit my ear real hard that things got way out of hand. Thank goodness my friend, who was also a volunteer at the con, got her off me and warned her of her conduct. You would think though that after actually yelling that it wasn't an act that the crowd would help, but they just sat there chanting for me to take it all off. I was never more embarrased. What was worse was that during the con after that, there were people that from time to time would come up to me and ask such embarrasing questions like "where I bought my underwear" and guys would come buy asking if "I would be their Mikuru". Now I look back and think that even though I hated that at the time, It was very in character... I give the situation props for that.

That's just the tip of the iceberge compared to some other things I've seen at clubs and cons. But the worst actually directly involving me.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:28 am Reply with quote
Ari-chan wrote:
I know my worst experience was when I was literally getting sexually harrased at a con when dressed as Mikuru from The Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. I met a Haruhi cosplayer who felt this dire need to get to into character. At first I was going along with it, as it was playful groping (the Mikuru norm) and was acting my character, then it all went to hell when she actually tried to undress me. I was telling her to stop but she continued to stay in character. People started gathering around and cheering and laughing, but I was embarrased that she was lifting my skirt and shirt up for the world to see. It was when she bit my ear real hard that things got way out of hand. Thank goodness my friend, who was also a volunteer at the con, got her off me and warned her of her conduct. You would think though that after actually yelling that it wasn't an act that the crowd would help, but they just sat there chanting for me to take it all off. I was never more embarrased. What was worse was that during the con after that, there were people that from time to time would come up to me and ask such embarrasing questions like "where I bought my underwear" and guys would come buy asking if "I would be their Mikuru". Now I look back and think that even though I hated that at the time, It was very in character... I give the situation props for that.


Now you know how poor Mikuru feels, unfortunately.
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Ari-chan



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:42 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Ari-chan wrote:
I know my worst experience was when I was literally getting sexually harrased at a con when dressed as Mikuru from The Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. I met a Haruhi cosplayer who felt this dire need to get to into character. At first I was going along with it, as it was playful groping (the Mikuru norm) and was acting my character, then it all went to hell when she actually tried to undress me. I was telling her to stop but she continued to stay in character. People started gathering around and cheering and laughing, but I was embarrased that she was lifting my skirt and shirt up for the world to see. It was when she bit my ear real hard that things got way out of hand. Thank goodness my friend, who was also a volunteer at the con, got her off me and warned her of her conduct. You would think though that after actually yelling that it wasn't an act that the crowd would help, but they just sat there chanting for me to take it all off. I was never more embarrased. What was worse was that during the con after that, there were people that from time to time would come up to me and ask such embarrasing questions like "where I bought my underwear" and guys would come buy asking if "I would be their Mikuru". Now I look back and think that even though I hated that at the time, It was very in character... I give the situation props for that.


Now you know how poor Mikuru feels, unfortunately.


Yes, indeed I do Anime smile + sweatdrop
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Toshirodragon



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 166
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:21 am Reply with quote
Yuukichan's Papa wrote:
It's actually interesting and cool to see this week's theme because my Answerfan answer had to do with racism as well. I'll paste it here:

Quote:
The worst thing I've seen somebody do at an anime convention was a blatant act of racism.

It was at a Fanime, in 2000 I believe. We were in the convention center area, near where the entrance to the masquerade usually was. It so happened that at the same time, there was a Muslim-oriented convention going on, so during certain parts of the day there would be many people from that convention sharing areas with Fanime - many of whom were in traditional clothing. There were a number of audible groans from the milling anime fans, and one girl said something like "This is an anime convention, not a towelhead convention!" loudly enough for everybody to hear. Not everybody laughed or reacted to what was going on, but that it was more than one person was enough for me. I was mortified.

I like to think that anime fans in general are fairly open-minded when it comes to a lot of things. They're usually the ones mentioning (though only partially true) Japan's somewhat more open policies toward homosexuality and toward what kind of material their children are exposed to, yet here in the thick of a group of fans, there were racist jokes being made.

I realize that those people didn't reflect upon the fandom as a whole, nor am I concerned that those being yelled at thought so, but it's still by far the most insensitive thing I've ever seen people do at an anime event.




That would have been grounds for getting her ejected from Yaoi-con, they have a ZERO tolerance for racism or gender related slurs of any kind...
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 468
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:40 am Reply with quote
This edition was a good read, but not something that got me riled up as I expected it would. Very nice, middle of the road answers, Zac.

A few things, since other posters have jumped in to talk about politico-anime; things like Kuni ga Moeru and Ghost in the Shell are pretty rare, as I've found. Sure, if we look at all anime from the 1960s to current, we can probably come up with a long list of political anime (especially with the Cyberpunk boom in the 80s and early 90s) but if we look year by year, there's probably a drought of titles.

One that no one mentioned was the political satire of Nerima Daikon Brothers, with its concerns over former Prime Minister Koizumi's push to continue to privatize more state-owned/operated services.

I suppose, too, we should also look at what we define as "political" - with almost everything being a political issue, it can be more than historical politics like Kuni ga Moeru but also things like Hokuto no Ken, which was influenced with the more probable concept of nuclear war from its time.

Finally, as to why more of them aren't as visible, as there are some mentioned before is that outside of a satire or historical fiction, if we're working with America as the prime foreign audience, the government structures are fairly different. Japan has a parlimentary system like everyone else, which is very different from our representative democracy. Americans, on average, are so ignorant about their own political system that trying to market something based on a foreign one will be met with equally confused looks. As for other English-speaking anime fans with parliamentary systems of government, I don't think this is much of a hurdle at all.

Racist anime fans? Never - well, okay, there's probably a few. Bigoted? Sure, I'll buy into that one more than actually dictionary-definition racist. I thought Zac's answer was very detailed (I wasn't aware of 2channel having problems with ANN, but I guess they have problems with everyone) but didn't look at the most obvious answers I would have - the fans that will love and adore something as fantastic because it's Japanese, despite its actual percieved quality, but hate on something else because its, well, not. Again, it's the age old debate between if it is really racism or just plain predjudice or bigotry, but I felt that thee fans got a pass in the column, instead jsut to make a reference to another Internet subculture.

George Bush banning anime will never go a way. I bet when I'm about retirement age, and if the anime fandom hasn't completely driven me insane, I'm still going to see this asked. Things actually stay on the Internet for a long time, even though they may not slap you in the face every five seconds.

Zac wrote:
People who are angling for the job of President of the United States have things to worry about that are actually important, like, you know, everything else.


Best. Answerman statement. Ever.

As for embarassing fans - I honestly cannot think of anything at the moment. Ugly cosplayers? Seen it. Disturbing sexual relations? Seen it. Irritating Q&A at panels? Seen it. Con attendees who don't bathe? Smelled it. Manga cows? Tripped over it. People who just do not realize that the way you act and carry yourself in public is indicative of how you'll actually be percieved and treated? Seen it.

I guess I can't think of one particular instance where fandom has embarrassed me, but several traits I see day after day, year after year that are personified by the that fandom embarasses me.

Worst anime? Again, drawing a blank on a single title - having seen a panel at Anime Weekend Atlanta for the past three years called Totally Lame Anime has given me a plethora of junk to pick from. However, outside of that, I'd probably have to say Baoh.
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here-and-faraway



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1528
Location: Sunny California
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:43 am Reply with quote
This was one of my favorite Answerman!s. Thanks for some meaty questions.

Is there anyway you can write more about what you were asked to omit from the FMA interview? I've always seen a HUGE link between it and the Iraq war and I want to know what else is going on in there. You don't work for the magazine anymore after all. . .
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ichiro3923



Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 167
Location: hiding in your closet watching you
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:49 am Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:

The Nword...wow. Personally I feel that so many young people use that words is because its in like every rap song. I don't understand the fasination with the rap culture- but i've seen so many non african americans trying to emulate what they call cool.
I love calling my friends the nword and then telling them to pick cotten for nonexistant wages.


I thought people started to use the N-word because of shows like Dave Chapelle and The Boondocks, and I find those shows to be funny
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mike.motaku



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:32 am Reply with quote
Ah yes. The horror that is the fan convention. Unfortunately not limited to the anime convention. The few conventions I've been to, while having their share of transcendent moments that made me happy to be alive, also had more than their fair share of free range whack-jobs off their meds.

Politics in anime? Anime from Zipang to Gasaraki to Black Jack and everything in between sort of forcibly reminds Americans that anime is a Japanese product aimed primarily at a Japanese audience and elicits cries of "Why are they so down on the U. S.? Why are we always the bad guys?" Well, kids, first, we are not always depicted as the bad guys and second, thanks to the U. S., Japan has the unique position of being the only country in the world to have had up close and personal experience of nucular weaponry.

Oddly, they took it poorly. But look at American popular culture. We have, on occasion, done the exact same thing to them and think nothing of it.
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elsie



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:38 am Reply with quote
Politics -- my favorite topic when it comes to anime.

There are two ways that politics are dealt with in relation to anime. The first is fairly explicit, as when Gasaraki models itself on the first Gulf War. These are shows that specifically comment on world situations either explicitly or metaphorically. I count FMA in this context, given the parallels between the Ishballans and the Intifada and then by the end when the Nazis are brought into it.

The second way that politics are dealt with in anime is less in relation to our world's specific political situations and more in terms of watching the play of power. An awful lot of anime deal with office politics of one kind or another, in which people who work together jockey for power within an organization. Bleach is one of my favorites in this category, once we get into the Soul Society arc and start seeing how the captains interact. In fact, the villain is a master in the game of office politics.

For that matter, Naruto is a very political series too, in its own way, once you start to analyze the power relationships between the various ninja villages and the lands in which they reside. Consider for instance that the village must continue to carry out missions even after the invasion or else lose its viability as a ninja organization.

Politics is always about the play of power between people and organizations, and what better basis for an epic adventure story is there? Twisted Evil
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petran79



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:52 am Reply with quote
Patlabor 2 seems to me the anime with the heaviest political content and the Jin-Roh movies as well.

And if you haven't watched Persepolis yet you'd better do.
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GarBhaD



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:53 am Reply with quote
The worst show I've ever watched (and it'd be hard to take its title) is definitely Guardian Hearts. This harem-anime features nearly all the cliches you can imagine, from characters to plot. Presented in Crappy-Animation(tm). In fact, I'd say that it doesn't count as animation, since it consists mostly of stills scrolling by the screen. There are scenes that should be animated but aren't, so you can't really understand what's going on. But don't worry, since the plot is so unimaginative, you'll immediately catch up. Of course, the stills presenting panties or any kind of women underclothes (which are lots) are precisely drawn and scrolled again and again just in case you didn't notice. I could let it pass if at least it were funny (the premise apparently was, which is why I bothered watching something like this) but it isn't, and I have a really broad sense of humor.
You could think that what I'm describing could be applied to most harem-animes, but this one is so bad in all areas that it's hard to describe it.
Now I noticed that it got a sequel, which proves again that the continuity of a show has little to do with its quality.
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The Shade



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:10 am Reply with quote
Political anime? I'm surprised no one mentioned Patlabor the Movie 2. Ok, not that relevant today, but in its day (1993), it seemed to sum up Mamoru Oshii's thoughts up pretty well.

Edit: Darn, petran79 beat me to it.
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:32 am Reply with quote
As far as political anime is concerned, theatrical anime often seems to convey the leftwing politics of those directors whose careers took off in the 60s and 70s.
Almost every Ghibli film contains some combination of feminist, anti-militarist, environmentalist and anti-imperialist messages (and the pre-Ghibli Future Boy Conan couldn't be more political if it tried).
Katsuhiro Otomo's work is sometimes quite political too - two of the three films that make up the Memories anthology are obvious political satires - and Satoshi Kon's looks at the dark recesses of Japanese society also have a political edge.

As far as TV anime goes, Dai Guard springs to mind as a satire (at least in part) of both corporate and military mindsets.

But then I suppose it depends on what the questioner meant by "politics". The only anime I can think of off the top of my head that deals directly with parliamentary politics is GitS SAC.
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