Forum - View topicEvangelion - thoughts and discussions.
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V1046-R
Posts: 172 |
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I really don't like you damien007. Every time you quote me looking for a response, that is all I am going to tell you. Peace out! 
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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I'll be more polite. You are correct when you say that the ending has been criticized from the start. You are also correct to suspect that if that many people don't like it, something might be wrong, although that doesn't automatically make it so. As far as I've heard, running out of time was just as much a reason for the TV ending as money problems. That being said, you are incorrect by claiming that the ending was a departure from the style of the show. The first abstract "headtrip" sequence happened to Rei around episode 13 iirc. There were at least two for Shinji and another one for Asuka. Even more, a big chunk of the second part of EoE was also very abstract. Both provide a thematical conclusion but only EoE gives a plot resolution. That I assume is the main reason for all the hate. But whether it is a flaw or a simply a reason why the ending didn't meet the expectations for some people is a debatable issue. |
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V1046-R
Posts: 172 |
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Thanks for the measured, non-passionate response. My main issue with the ending is twofold - call me simple or whatever you want, but I enjoy anime for the animation. When that is lacking, I am less than impressed. This is my own opionion, and not due to reading what other people think. In actuality, I was lucky enough to see Evangelion without knowing ANYTHING about the show before watching it, other than it was referred to as a great anime series. So my own feelings of the end were my very own reaction to what felt like an almost insulting wrap up to a show that consisted of great action animation. It was shocking to me, and not in the context of story line, but just in quality. I only later started researching online to find what the deal is with what I thought was a cheesed out ending. That is when I started seeing articles about them having budget issues & having to make compomises in order to deliver a finished product. May be speculation on my part this wasn;t designed to be this way from the start, but all the math seemed to point to probably not what was originally intended. But I admit to not being an insider, just someone who was bugged enough by the ending to take a little time to look into it afterwards. This is the only show that bugged me so much to do that, because I loved the show, but completely loathed the ending. As for the philosphy aspects, I feel it is a writer/director/editors duty to make sense to the type of audience that is supporting a show. I am not a noob when it comes to philosphy, and have taken all those interesting courses years ago in college. But is it entertaining? For some, it obviously is when I see the endless debates. But for me, it just drags an interesting show down into the weeds of psychobabble. Ruminations on existance may seem fresh to some, and stale to others who have already gone around these circles in their head. I put myself in the latter category. It felt like, "been there, done that when I was younger", when seeing these final scenes. Once again, my very own opinion, not borrwed from anyone else. It just didn't do it for me. It felt preachy to me, and I always hate being preached to in entertainment. But ultimately this show ranks high on my list of great anime. But I see it as a show that has some elements that just don't appeal to me, so it will never be #1 on my list. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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@V1046-R
I don't think the animation in Eva was much to look at in the first place. The scene composition and editing was what caught my attention. The thing is that you can look at the ending as an affront or as an experiment (failed or not) made on what seems like a zero budget. That is when people are forced to get creative. And that was interesting to me. I didn't know about the behind-the-scenes drama either, but I was curious enough to look it up and adjust my expectations. Concerning philosophy in Eva. I don't see any significant attempts to have one. It has some themes that are important to Existentialism, but Anno is no Kierkegaard or Sartre and he's not trying to be one of them (if he is, then he's so bad at it that I didn't even notice). He's not solving philosophical problems, he portrays his characters asking such questions as they attempt to adjust to the world. You might have gone through that phase, but they haven't. Such themes thus have a more functional role. The point then in this debate that I want to make is that these most commonly stated flaws that the ending might or might not have is a matter of perspective and expectations. |
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V1046-R
Posts: 172 |
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With all due respect to you and everyone on this site, I never intended to get into a debate over this show. I let myself get suckered in to that, because I like most people feel compelled to respond to flame bait, even though I know better & should just ignore it (not referring to your posts). I suppose my original post could be called flame bait, but was never intended to be. I wasn't quoting or responding to anyone, so didn't expect any reaction at all to it to be honest. But I like this site and people's passion for the shows. Don't take my disinterest in continuing a discussion with you about this show the wrong way. Nothing personal. This is just a show I saw quite some time ago, and thought the people who made it must have dropped acid or something when they did the ending. 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Running out of time, running out of money, and also, episodes twenty-five and twenty-six being weird was a pre-planned thing right from the start. Evidence? Apparently, Shinji only ever listens to two tracks on his walkman. Those tracks are . . . episodes twenty-five and twenty-six. I don't one-hundred percent believe it as I need to rewatch the Anime while paying close attention to his walkman. So I can't say for sure if this is correct. But if it is true then it would be kind of neat. It wouldn't completely dispel the budget and time explanations, but it does offer a new twist and a new angle. |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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spoiler[Originally I actually sort of viewed that alternate universe at the end of the series as a way for Shinji, seemingly to be undergoing a sort of schizophrenia, to escape from the horrors that he usually had to endure. Since I've started to look into Angelic Days, I'm getting a new feel for the ending of the original Neon Genesis Evangelion television anime. Angelic Days almost depicts that alternate ending as a universe where things could have been a lot more positive. It makes everything seem far less like it was rushed, though it was obviously a correction made much later.
Speaking of mental illness, I was wondering what the part about congratulating everyone in the very last sequence of the show actually means. It almost sounded like once more Shinji was a patient undergoing mental treatment and they were congratulating him for speaking in a way that suggested he was progressing along. Am I totally missing the point?] If what I understand from this thread is correct, the tracks that Shinji is listening to on his Walkman are the soundtracks to other episodes. They didn't sound like that to me at all. Were they modified or something like that? |
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Snomaster1
 SubscriberPosts: 2796 |
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Recently,I've been hearing a lot about Netflix getting "Evangelion" lately and a lot of people aren't happy about it. From what I've heard,they did a new English dub that nobody wanted or asked for and it seems that they weren't able to get "Fly Me To The Moon" as the ending theme for the show. Well,it doesn't bother me all that much because I've never really gotten into it.
I found "NGE" to be a dark and gloomy show with characters I found hard to relate to. Now,don't get me wrong. I've seen a lot of other dark shows in my life,but why have I never gotten into this one? Well,in those other shows,there were some lighter,more hopeful moments in those shows which made it tolerable for me to watch. Those moments were rare in "EVA." It started off fine in the beginning but as the show wore on,I found it getting very depressing and not as fun to watch. When I first got into anime,I've often heard of "Neon Genesis Evangelion,"but never actually saw the show. My first taste of "EVA" came when two episodes of the series were broadcast on Toonami's Giant Robot Week and my curiosity was piqued. But,I had to wait a long time to satisfy that curiosity. And,that would come when Adult Swim would broadcast the original English version. As I said before,it started off fine,but as the series continued,it began to become dark and depressing. When the show ended,it was one anime that I never wanted to see again. Even now,the show's popularity continues to mystify me. Much of it seems very cold and uninviting to me. Many people found stuff like "Schindler's List" or "Angela's Ashes" depressing. To me,"Neon Genesis Evangelion" is just as depressing as those others but it's extremely popular and I have no idea why that is. While there are some good characters in the show,many of the others seem unrelatable to me. Among those characters is the lead character,Shinji Ikari. To me and plenty of others,he came across as this incredibly depressing person that you wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time with. He constantly moans and whines but does little to improve his situation. To his defenders,like ANN's Zac,he had a tragic past and abandonment issues,which never held a lot of water with people like me. There are plenty of characters that have had similar things happen to them,but they handled it in different ways. In one episode of "The Real Ghostbusters" called "Ragnarok and Roll" had a character named Jeremy who became depressed when his girlfriend turned down his marriage proposal. His heartbreak overwhelmed him and sought out a magic flute with the power to end the world. Eventually,his girlfriend and the Ghostbusters helped him see that what he was doing was wrong and fixed the damage he caused. Another such character is Eddie Valiant from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" who had lost his brother and he was very bitter about it. While helping Roger when he was framed for murder,he was able to become a better person. Bruce Wayne lost his parents to violence. That drove him to become the hero Batman,in a way to help make his city a better place. Even other anime has characters like this. Kenshin Himura in "Rurouni Kenshin" felt incredible guilt for his past as an assassin. He wanted to make up for the lives he took by fighting for a better country. Even Naruto and Sasuke in the anime "Naruto" had sad pasts that would drive them later on for good and for ill. You can't really say the same thing about Shinji. He starts off as a sympathetic character,but he doesn't really seem to want to do anything to help improve his situation. He just seems to want to curl up in a ball and complain about things. His constant complaining and whining begins to erode our sympathy for him until we in the audience and the other characters start to lose our patience with him. He doesn't even try to improve as a person. Even when he's around others who've had similar pasts,to their credit,they,at least,tried to improve themselves and be better people. He doesn't do any of that. Yes,he's been placed in dangerous situations. But,that's still no excuse. There are people in real life and in fiction that have been in dangerous situations. But,they work up the courage to continue in those situations. But,Shinji Ikari isn't the only reason why I have such problem with this anime. Much of this show feels cold,depressing,harsh. There's a hopeless quality to this show,a hopelessness that I find extremely alienating and make it hard for me to enjoy this show very much. It's a mystery to me why this show is so popular. If I'm honest,I'm not sure it's a mystery I want to solve. Last edited by Snomaster1 on Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:48 am; edited 5 times in total |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2336 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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You know who I would have loved to hear voicing Gendou Ikari?
Ahem... "Shinji! Shinji, wake up! Wake up, we go-urp we got an Angel to kill. It's a giant...it's a giant monster and you gotta kill it Shinji. You gotta...you gotta get inside this giant robot that sorta isn't or something I can't remember. Something about your mother...your mother being in there...you gotta kill giant monsters Shinji! And they're all based on symbols of Christian mythology and bullshit we just threw in to look cool. So it's...so it's basically like a Godzilla flick. Or Pacific...remem...remember Pacific Rim Shinji? It actually didn't do well in the states. The only-burp- the only reason it made a profit enough for the sequel was because of the Vhinese market. That's Holldyeood today Shinji! It's all...it's all Asia now. That's all that matters. The movie wasn't even original. They totally ripped off our shit! With the giant mechs and the...and the kaiju killing...and that one Asian chick who kinda looked like Rei who also looks like your mother? Did I mention that about Rei and your mother by the way? Well who cares. All that matters is that you're the only one that can kill the Angel's Shinji. You're the only...well not really. Practically any snotnosed little prepubescent bastard can pilot them, but they gotta...they gotta some really fu-urp-cked up backstory like you and your dead mom? Your mothe... your mother's dead, remember? She died...she died helping with these robot...robot things. But don't think about it too much. You gotta.. you gotta kill 17 Angel's Shinji. It's a long pain in the ass process and not all of'em make any Goddamn sense. Like that...like that one that turned into a comp-urp-uter virus? How do...how does that even happen? And that lava fetus? Was there even a real point to that point. But don't worry, we're fix all that in the Rebuilds. They're be huge! And we're gonna get another chick your age that's an even cul-de-sac than lava fetus Angel. So go kill Angel's Shinji! You need...you need to kill Angel's so we can turn everyone into globs of orange goo. And you know what that goo is Shinji? It's chicken sauce Shinji! It's that Mulan szechuan chicken sauce Shinji! I finally found it! I found...I found a way to make more Mulan chicken sauce Shinji! And that's what this all about Shinji! It's about...it's about turning everyone into dipping sauce Shinji! So get in the [expletive] robot Shinji! I want my Mcnugget sauce Shinji! Even if it takes me nine more movies and spinoff manga! Never mind about your whiny mommy issues, or your...or your hot caretaker...or your weird red head fantasy! I want my Mcnugget sauce Shinji! EVANGELION! RENT NETFLIX!!!" If only Justin Roiland reads this. |
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