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Fallout2man



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 271
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:22 pm Reply with quote
ruro niko wrote:
The "fansubs being protected by the first amendment" argument doesn't really work for me, and I've been studying the first amendment in most of my journalism classes for the last year or two. The only way to make that work would be to get it to fall under fair use, and I'm fairly certain fansubs don't meet those requirements.

I am interested about the question of asking permission for showings, particularly to the "general rule that nobody really cares if you show something to your anime club." I know not all clubs do this, but I also know that a lot of the clubs I was looking into when trying to restructure and improve our club do ask for permissions. They also tend to have a more set schedule where they can ask for permission for the specific dates that most companies ask for, as opposed to us where we're lucky if we know what we're showing a week in advance. This has been on my mind lately as I've taken upon more responsibility in the club. I've been wondering how necessary it would be for a nonprofit club that collects no dues or any money whatsoever related to watching the anime to actually ask permission for series.



I'd personally say it depends on what you're showing and how big you are. The key word would be discretion. If you're a small club that meets every week and not many people know about you, I doubt that any anime company will care or even know enough to prosecute you for bringing in one member's legally purchased DVD to show to everyone.

Legally you are making a public preformance that that does require explicit permission, however unless you're charging money or have a huge group I don't personally think it'd be important.

The key question to ask these days isn't if something is illegal, it's if it's immoral or if they'll come after you for it. Since even if you don't break the law sometimes you can still get companies after you for this or that because they know you couldn't afford to defend yourself legally.
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dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:25 pm Reply with quote
championferret wrote:
Well, the pronunciation nazi in me can't resist this one.
What do you mean by 'chawn'? As in, rhymes with 'shaun'? (the name?)
Because...that's really incorrect. It's like 'chaan'. If you say it fast, it almost comes out 'chun'.
I've only been studying japanese 5 years so I don't claim to be some amazing guro on it; but how to pronounce vowel sounds is the most basic of basics.
EDIT= Those flakes looked pretty fake to me. You can tell now if they just say 'naruto' in them. xD'


Yeah I'm scratching my head too.
I think the actual pronunciation is a little ambiguous myself.
I hear both tʃæn and tʃən, depending on enunciation. The pronunciation in the article looks like the ɑ or ɔ in yawn. I'm using IPA, so a quick look at this should clarify what I'm saying:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_chart_for_English

Although I don't have much to say about Pocky, or candy in general for that matter, this topic kind of makes me wonder about the place of candy in Japanese culture. My inner Jiminy Cricket tells me they aren't as obese on average...does anybody know about that?

EDIT: The pronunciation of vowels and such is also regional.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7444
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:39 pm Reply with quote
championferret wrote:
I don't claim to be some amazing guro

Is amazing guro less sickening than the regular stuff?
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ruro niko



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Tennessee
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:39 pm Reply with quote
Fallout2man wrote:
I'd personally say it depends on what you're showing and how big you are. The key word would be discretion. If you're a small club that meets every week and not many people know about you, I doubt that any anime company will care or even know enough to prosecute you for bringing in one member's legally purchased DVD to show to everyone.

Legally you are making a public preformance that that does require explicit permission, however unless you're charging money or have a huge group I don't personally think it'd be important.

The key question to ask these days isn't if something is illegal, it's if it's immoral or if they'll come after you for it. Since even if you don't break the law sometimes you can still get companies after you for this or that because they know you couldn't afford to defend yourself legally.

It's a college club. Attendance varies from maybe 60 tops for the first couple of meetings down to 30ish for the rest of the semester.
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Jih2



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 403
Location: East coast
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:11 pm Reply with quote
....your safe, don't worry about it.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9543
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:23 pm Reply with quote
The First Amendment wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


The portion that is relevant here (or rather, considered by some to be relevant) is "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."

"Freedom of speech" was eventually expanded to include "freedom of expression" which includes artistic expression. Although generally believed to be one and the same, the Supreme Court of the United States only made "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression" one and the same in 1989 when it ruled that flag burning was protected by the first amendment. Although the case in question didn't relate to artistic expression, the outcome was that the first amendment now protected non-speech forms of expression.

Despite the first amendment, and subsequent court rulings, one party's freedom of expression does not supersede another parties rights. For example, burning flags might be legal, but you can only burn your own flag. You can't steal a flag from someone's property and then burn it (even "borrowing" the flag without permission, pretending to burn it, then returning it undamaged would be a violation of the other party's property rights). Nor can you "express yourself" by spray painting their car. Furthermore, private media has no responsibility to transmit expressions they don't agree with.

The court has never ruled on whether or not file-sharing is "expression" and I doubt it ever will. The data they are sharing is not their own expression, but rather someone else's.

Quite simply, there is no "expression" when you are duplicating another individual's "expression" without adapting, changing or adding to it in any way.

So the right to express yourself doesn't apply to forms of "non-expression."

The other important point, as mentioned above, even if there was expression involved, one party's right to express themselves does not supersede the other party's right property rights. As long as original expressions are considered "intellectual property," the property rights will supersede expression rights, except where specifically allowed by law (fair use, parody, etc..), just like with the above examples of another person's car or flag.

-t
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Nermal



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 223
Location: I was made to hit in America
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:30 pm Reply with quote
PaladinBlue wrote:
I consider the ultimate Japanese snack food to be Haichu/Hi-Chew. Imagine fruit flavored candy that has the texture of bubble gum. Delicious. Too bad they don't have that in the US (or Meiji-brand chocolate and melon pan).


I guess I should be thankful that I live in SoCal. All of the above is quite common here at Marukai or Mitsuwa.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:31 pm Reply with quote
ruro niko wrote:

It's a college club. Attendance varies from maybe 60 tops for the first couple of meetings down to 30ish for the rest of the semester.


Nothing to worry about.

Technically, it would probably be illegal (but some people would argue that it wouldn't be), but realistically, this type of activity doesn't bother copyright owners much, and it's too insignificant to really matter to them.

Ethically, you are providing people free access to a commercial product, so there is a bit of "wrong" there, but as long as you don't foster an anti-commercial attitude, you're doing more good than harm by introducing people to the medium/genre/titles. If you want to feel good about yourself, try to actively encourage people to support the industry by buying the titles that are available, and/or merchandise.

As long as you don't charge admission or membership fees, the worst that could ever happen would be a polite request that you stop. But again, there's no reason this would even come to anyone's attention.

The only problem may be your school, some schools require you to prove you have screening permission for everything and anything you screen.

-t
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:40 pm Reply with quote
ruro niko wrote:
Fallout2man wrote:
I'd personally say it depends on what you're showing and how big you are. The key word would be discretion. If you're a small club that meets every week and not many people know about you, I doubt that any anime company will care or even know enough to prosecute you for bringing in one member's legally purchased DVD to show to everyone.

Legally you are making a public preformance that that does require explicit permission, however unless you're charging money or have a huge group I don't personally think it'd be important.

The key question to ask these days isn't if something is illegal, it's if it's immoral or if they'll come after you for it. Since even if you don't break the law sometimes you can still get companies after you for this or that because they know you couldn't afford to defend yourself legally.

It's a college club. Attendance varies from maybe 60 tops for the first couple of meetings down to 30ish for the rest of the semester.


Ha. The one I run typically gets 5-10 people per showing. Weak.

Then again, I don't know how big your school is, and mine's a pretty small school. Also, the anime showings are part of a larger group that doesn't specialize in only anime, but all things nerdy (video games, comic books, Magic: The Gathering, etc.).
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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:42 pm Reply with quote
I really liked the 'Manga or Anime' Answerfans question. My personal 2-cents on the matter is, who cares? Why should I waste time worrying if Black Cat the Anime is better than the Black Cat manga? I'm not forced to watch one or the other, I just do.

Sure, there are differences, and sometimes a show is better as one than the other, but that's not so big of a deal for me. I just take what I can get, Anime smile
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CatzCradle



Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 230
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I blame the explosion of Pocky to anime on Onegai/Please Teacher. The worse manga? D.N. Angel - I'm not too sure who it's suppose to be aimed at but as a 23 yr male, I'm pretty sure this isn't for me >>


I love D. N. Angel! Well, probably because I'm female and a teenager...

Quote:
LavenderAna wrote:
Aromatic Grass wrote:
What are those little chocolate cones with ridges called? The ones that are half strawberry-chocolate and half regular chocolate? Anyway, those are my favorites.

You mean Caplico? I agree, those are the best Very Happy

I just found it. They're called Apollo Chocolate, which I thought was a brand name or something. I don't think I've heard of Caplico, but it looks good. I want to try some of those Koala Yummies... those look really good! Anime smallmouth


Ooh! Caplico and Apollo Chocolate both look so delicious. I've never seen those kind before, but I wanna try it... Razz
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ruro niko



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Tennessee
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
Ha. The one I run typically gets 5-10 people per showing. Weak.

Then again, I don't know how big your school is, and mine's a pretty small school. Also, the anime showings are part of a larger group that doesn't specialize in only anime, but all things nerdy (video games, comic books, Magic: The Gathering, etc.).

We're about a 24,000 undergraduate public university. We tend to have other interests in games and comics, but we're technically an anime club, and our core meetings consist of three hours of mostly watching anime every week.
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Otae-san



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:11 pm Reply with quote
LOL, I'm surprised no one mentioned Naruto for the worst manga title yet. 8D I'm not, 'cause I'm indifferent to it, but!

Even though I'm really more a shounen fan when it comes down to it, I do have my favorite shoujo titles as well -- I loveloveLOVED Full Moon wo Sagashite and DNAngel, and I managed to get a few friends of mine into Milk Crown. So when a bunch of said friends started going on about After School Nightmare, I decided to check it out for myself...

... and honestly, it was confusing as all get out. Now, I'm pretty much a fan of any genre, and this manga is supposedly part shoujo romance, part psychological drama, but it just comes across as the most muddled, mismatched series of random events ever seen on paper. I found nearly all of the characters dislikable, with the exception of Kureha, who I managed to tolerate for some reason. But Sou, my gods. I couldn't read any scenes with him in it without wanting to punch him in the face!

I admit, it's an interesting concept for a manga; the main character's struggles are unique and the whole 'dream world' idea can be really cool at times, but here it just doesn't seem to work. I got bored with it and dropped the title rather quickly -- I'd rather stick with my fluffy shoujo instead. :[

Also, pocky is fine and all that, but my first love will always be kompeitou. <333
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JnxCsc



Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Out in the black.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Personally, I prefer those chocolate-filled koala bear cookie things, whatever they're called.


This already had me interested. Chocolate filled and cookies?!

Quote:
Could it be Koala Yummies?! Those ARE awesome.


But then came the link and I couldn't resist. Crying or Very sad

I ordered THREE boxes! Chocolate, Vanilla, and Almond Latte.

Diet? I don't need no stinkin diet. I got Koala Yummies! Laughing
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Fallout2man



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 271
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:52 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:

(Long first ammendment post snipped for brevity)
-t


Technically speaking any method of saying something, even if it's offensive, obscene, or just the same thing someone else said, is the act of expressing something. So technically if we just go by a more constitutional version of common law, copyright would not exist.

Of course unfortunately thanks to the case I linked in my earlier post, there is a precident set legally that the government can supposedly ban "harmful speech" because of their liberal view of the constitution.

That said, it was enumerated in the constitution as an additional right for congress to make laws specifically in that case to promote the arts and sciences. It's another type of social contract where we agree to give up some freedom in return for something good. In this case more art and science. So it very much is expression, because you are still saying something, even if it's something someone else has said.

IP is actually closer to speech than physical property, but because we decided to form that contract, we signed our right to express certain things in certain ways at certain times. Unfortunately as of late it seems the contract has been getting terribly one sided.
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