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Whoo! Eva!

Here's my tale regarding my most favorite anime series ever. Gonna be LONG.

I finished NGE in its entirety when I was eight, back in 1998 (in Korea).

Before that I'd been watching anime, yes, but they weren't anime to me. As a kid I watched all the "cartoons," whatever was most popular at the moment, or just because it was "cartoons." From the entirety of Sailor Moon excluding S, Wedding Peach, Saint Tail, Galaxy Express 999, GaoGaiGar (part of the regular cycle of giant mecha shows), Mazinger Z, Gatchaman, to random ones like Alps no Shoujo Heidi and The Rose of Versailles (or something reminiscent of it). And of course, titles I can't remember the names for now.

Yeah, I watched a lot of stuff by the time Eva rolled into my viewership.

I watched Eva by accident, because had any parent ever known what the entirety of Eva was, they'd be insane to show it to a 7/8 year old.

What happened was that my mom had rented the series for me on VHS on the suggestion of a store clerk, based what I'd been watching at the time (Super Sentai mostly, relation where?).

I didn't know what to expect, and at first I was reluctant because she hadn't gotten what I wanted originally.

All I knew was that it had robots.

Then I watched.

I was hooked. By God, this was NOTHING like what I'd ever seen before. I didn't understand all of it, and I was baffled at the ending, thinking I'd skipped a tape, especially with my learning of End of Eva (though I didn't realize it was a movie at that time, just that it was a real ending) on a cable anime channel in a "talk segment" regarding anime and the importance of Eva.

The hell? Other people knew about this series too? And it was being run on Tuesday nights at 8?! I may get a chance to see the true end!

I never did see it, its broadcast run apparently being over then. But that image of Eva-02 chucking a battleship stayed with me.

And Eva stayed with me.

I also got into the Kindaichi Case Files as my next series on VHS after Eva ended, and that was different and awesome too. Never finished.

Then I moved to NC in summer of 1999, and all that anime was gone. I got Cartoon Network and the WB and Fox and Nickelodeon instead.

It was different, but it was cartoons. I particularly enjoyed a rare French cartoon called Oggy and the Cockroaches. Never saw it again after that first summer.

Anyhoo, I'd forgotten about "cartoons" and Eva for a while, with these new shows to keep me preoccupied, but I still missed them. And Eva stuck around in the back of my mind.

Then I think in 2001 or 2002, a bit of a while after I discovered the internet, I came across Eva again.

At this wonderful site: http://www.guide-to.net/

I was back again, and I desperately searched out more info on it or a way to see it again. I didn't know where to turn. Around this time I leanred the existence of fansubs and BT though I had no clue how to use them at at and could not use them until a year or two later.

My "veteran" friend had shown me subs of some series, and I wondered where he got it from. In fact, he had a few episodes of Eva. One thing led to another and tada.

I read up all the Eva material you could imagine. All the debates and the philosophies and all the abnormal psychology. All the discussions and all the symbolism and everything else of possible intrigue. Didn't matter if it was "superficial" or not, Eva provided a rich source of intrigue and research material.

The more I learned the more I respected this series. It got me into a lot of fun stuff, and it's the reason why I'm taking my advanced 2 year Psych course now.

I got into philosophy because of Eva, and psychology and religion and biggest of all, anime.

I "discovered" anime and learned of the nature of all the things I'd watched.

I finally got a chance to rewatch Eva as the Platinum Collections came out, and my pride and joy is the complete collection of Eva in that awesome silver case. I also finally watched EoE.

And poof, here I am now.

Eva was my "first anime," and my gateway series. It also impacted me so deeply probably because of the time period, my experiences beforehand with other series, and my age.

Whatever it was, and a flawed masterpiece it may be, it is my absolute favorite series.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

britannicamoore wrote:

Zac wrote:

britannicamoore wrote:

Art issues aside please tell me you know the difference between what people do in ficitional situations and real life ones?
Its funny because its not real, if this happened at a real con with real life people....well. It wouldn't be.

You know, the "it's never okay to personally object to any themes or content you find in manga because it's not real and therefore you can't ever have a problem with it" thing is getting kinda old.

You know, the "personally objecting to content that's fake and doesn't harm people because its paper" thing is kind of annoying.

People need to spend time worrying about real things/real people instead of fake, imaginary ones.

Just because it's fictional doesn't mean it's any less potent. The scene about rape that was described earlier sounds like it would be pretty offensive if read by any woman who has ever been through that situation.

I could give countless examples of certain genres in anime/manga that I think are also spread harmful imagery of women and girls, but for the sake of the thread's sanity, I won't go into it here. Suffice it to say that just because it's fictional/fake/paper/whatever doesn't mean you can excuse inappropriate endorsement of certain attitudes.

It just seems to me if you read anything that's...fiction (even if based off true events) its still ficiton. If it happened to you (and even then) you should be able to tell the difference between whats happened to a ficitonal charcter and whats happened to you.

I've been called the N-word, and yet even though Jim in Tom Swayer dealt withit on the daily, I feel its his problem and not mine.

Even though ya know. He doesn't exist.

And now that we're off topic me getting back on.
My eva story: Simply boiled down to me seeing a pretty silver box. I'd heard of the show but never thought about buying it until I saw the box.

I never got the chance to see it on AS.

Moomintroll wrote:

jsevakis wrote:

Macross, meanwhile, had Macross Plus, which you could show to pretty much anybody and expect a positive response. God, I hooked more people with that show...

There must be something wrong with me. I'm beginning to think I'm the only anime fan in the world who thought Macross Plus was utterly dreadful.
I mean it looked okay (aside from the fact that every single character design was seemingly modelled on Barry Manilow) but the plot was daft to put it mildly and I can't recall another show in which the lead characters were so utterly irksome and repugnant. Even more so than the Tom Cruise character they were ripping off - that takes real talent! And the sheer odiousness of the scene that goes something along the lines of -

spoiler[Annoying Egotistical Prick #1: "Dude! I just remembered I raped the mutual love of our respective lives - sorry about that!"

Annoying Egotistical Prick #2: "Hey, don't worry about it buddy - I broke your model aeroplane when we were in highschool!"

Me: "Uhm, yeah, because those two things are totally equivalent to one another..." ]

spoiler[Tearing off a woman's shirt =/= raping her. Guld stopped his natural Zentradi rage after seeing himself in the mirror, but blocked it out of his memory.]

The first time I watched Eva, I didn't really "get it," but after more watching, considering, and discussing, I really think it's a great work. I wish there was a little more explanation, but hey, that means we get to have a lot of discussions about the meaning and backstory. I also think it's a great collection of psychological profiles--I know a good number of people who act exactly like Asuka, so as frustrating as the personality is, I'm impressed with the characterization.

I have to disagree that Rahxephon brought anything good to Eva, though. I found it incredibly boring (it's very rare for me to stop watching a series halfway through, but I did with Rahxephon), and it seemed to me like it would sap all of the fun out of Eva-esque shows by telling us all the secrets. Maybe things were different at the end, I don't know--like I said, I couldn't stand to watch any more--but I wasn't impressed at all.

I had no idea Gundam wasn't popular in America, to be honest. I know several Wing fans, and my fiance is a fanboy about the whole franchise. I'm just starting to watch some mecha shows with him, being a mahou shoujo fangirl myself, but I really enjoy what I've seen of Wing. I'm very happy that Bandai's making enough money to keep releasing the DVDs, because we're thinking of buying the G-Gundam box sets soon as well.

Dramacon converted me out of the "OEL MANGA IS ALL HORRIBLE" crowd, although My Cat Loki is the only other title I've found palatable. I tried Gothic Soccer, but the art is weak and I don't care about any of the characters. I'm willing to try more, though.

The Wallflower honestly does have a few weak volumes in the middle of what's been released so far, but I do still like it. I wish the mangaka would follow serious developments through to their ending, though. She'll have a really great chapter with major development, but then in the next chapter, the arc will end with some sort of goofy contest or something. It's disappointing, but my love of the unorthodox relationship between Sunako and Kyo keeps me reading.

Moomintroll wrote:

jsevakis wrote:

Macross, meanwhile, had Macross Plus, which you could show to pretty much anybody and expect a positive response. God, I hooked more people with that show...

There must be something wrong with me. I'm beginning to think I'm the only anime fan in the world who thought Macross Plus was utterly dreadful.
I mean it looked okay (aside from the fact that every single character design was seemingly modelled on Barry Manilow) but the plot was daft to put it mildly <snip> And the sheer odiousness of the scene that goes something along the lines of -

spoiler[Annoying Egotistical Prick #1: "Dude! I just remembered I raped the mutual love of our respective lives - sorry about that!"
Annoying Egotistical Prick #2: "Hey, don't worry about it buddy - I broke your model aeroplane when we were in highschool!"
Me: "Uhm, yeah, because those two things are totally equivalent to one another..." ]
- still haunts me to this day.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. Although a lot of people love it (myself included), I know a few people who dislike it; some quite intensely.

The plot (what there is of it) suffers because the OAV was designed as a sort of expansion pack to the original Macross TV show. As such, it doesn't stand on it's own quite as well as if it had been made as a full-fledged sequel.

At first glance, the apology scene is quite ridiculous. But you have to remember that the original 'incident' resulted from the fact that Guld Goa Bowman is half Zentradi and therefore restraint and self-control are somewhat problematic. Both Isamu and Myung forgave him long ago because of it. And since Bowman blocked it out, the other two don't mention it, to avoid hurting his feelings. It's similar to not saying anything when someone has really really bad breath.
If you take all of that into account, the scene makes much more sense.

I could go on, but since I'm way off topic, I'll stop here.

To be quite honest, I've always found that most of the more 'popular' series in the BL fandom don't live up to their hype. For example, Loveless has nice art, sure, but I had to force myself to get through the first volume after many frustrated chucks towards a place near trashcan. Yes, I found the story that dull and I rushed to my local bookstore the next to trade it in for something that ended up being much more worthwhile.

britannicamoore wrote:

It just seems to me if you read anything that's...fiction (even if based off true events) its still ficiton. If it happened to you (and even then) you should be able to tell the difference between whats happened to a ficitonal charcter and whats happened to you.

I've been called the N-word, and yet even though Jim in Tom Swayer dealt withit on the daily, I feel its his problem and not mine.

Even though ya know. He doesn't exist.

So you're saying that any fictional publication that endorses murder, sexualization of children, insert various evil thing, is okay just because it's fiction? Yeesh.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

So you're saying that any fictional publication that endorses murder, sexualization of children, insert various evil thing, is okay just because it's fiction? Yeesh.

If the book was non-fiction then yeah, I'd be worried.
And even then a book is a book. You know? Words can't hurt me deal. Books don't bite or shoot people.

If a person is out cutting up little kids in the real world then theres a pause for the cause. If an author writes it in a book? Nice story there. Unless he's doing the crime...if you get what I'm saying.

I really don't know how you could watch tv or anime at all if you can't grasp reality. Rolling Eyes

britannicamoore wrote:

If the book was non-fiction then yeah, I'd be worried.
And even then a book is a book. You know? Words can't hurt me deal. Books don't bite or shoot people.

If a person is out cutting up little kids in the real world then theres a pause for the cause. If and other writes it in a book? Nice story there. Unless he's doing the crime...if you get what I'm saying.

I really don't know how you could watch tv or anime at all if you can't grasp reality. Rolling Eyes

So...a manga about six year olds working at a strip club that also operates as a producer of snuff films would be fine, as long as it's fictional?

It's not really a matter of what's real and what's not. It's a matter of what's considered acceptable and what's crossing the line. Tom Sawyer is a poor example for modern times, having been written well over 100 years ago. There are lines that can be crossed, even if it's a fictional story. You can't just make a generalization and say that anything goes because it's not real.

I know it's getting off-topic, so I'm going to keep my comment brief.

britannicamoore, you are right that books cannot physically hurt people, but what about the people who read the books and use them as their guides to actually do all kinds of things—for better or for worse?

1984 was "just a book" but the themes it covered still concern many people even today. There are many books out there that do influence people and therefore should not be ignored, even if they contain "just words".

Mein Kampf was also "just a book", but unfortunately it did influence people. And this is just one extreme example; there are many other examples out there.

All I'm saying is that words can and do influence people and that we should not take them lightly.

britannicamoore wrote:

I really don't know how you could watch tv or anime at all if you can't grasp reality.

Fictional or non-fictional. All these things transmit "ideas". Unfortunately, some handle fictional "worlds" better than others. Some are so poor at handling fiction, such that they immerse themselves completely -- merging reality with fiction.

Sometimes, a fictional world represents the things some fantasize about.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

So you're saying that any fictional publication that endorses murder, sexualization of children, insert various evil thing, is okay just because it's fiction? Yeesh.

Indeed. Don't forget to look at the effects of some fictional work on people -- like Death Note. Y'got one case where a Virginia student was suspended for having a "death note" (i.e. listing names of people he wanted dead - or something like that). Then, there's a case of actual murders.

All in all, that's one reason why certain levels of "censorship" are in place -- and also why writers sometimes have to be careful about their content.

Why "The Wallflower" as worst manga I wonder? I saw the anime and that was rather enjoyable I thought (Though I think it was directed by Nabeshin, so maybe that improved it?) I've only read the first volume of the manga though, so maybe it goes downhill or something? Hmmm, well it wasn't high on my "To buy" list anyway.

Eva is an old question. Lemme tell ya, I got Eva originally from a friend on burned CD-ROMs back in early 2000, along with End of Evangelion. I thought it was cool, interesting, rather well drawn and I knew the fandom around it. Still, I liked a series called Martian Successor: Nadesico better as did my friend (Same source for that one, big time Ruri freak). So I had Eva on my mental "Like" list and filed it under "Popular" but wasn't interested in paying $200 for the box set in the then miniscule anime section of Best Buy. I watched a few random episodes when it was on Adult Swim and, a the time was like "Now... Why is this series good?" and chalked it up to the dubs throwing it off at the time. Then I happened to find the entire Platinum set used (Score!) and rewatched the whole series and all the extras. Not only was I able to appreciate the dub and gain new insight into the original ending (Which I had already liked for being so different) but it spurred me into to looking into issues in the anime art community like "Superflat" and the fact that Evangelion is an anti-otaku, anti-moe piece (Before moe really boomed no less!) that took the tired stereotypes of the mecha and other genres and turned them on their heads: The reluctant hero remains reluctant, the doll-like girl is just that, and the hot head really is just doing it for attention. "Your fantasy heroes aren't here" I think Anno was saying. So while it is a psycho-trip full of symbolism that may mean as much as that used in The Matrix, its also a message to the anime community. And thats what impressed me.

Oh, and if you happen to want to reply to me, great, but I don't check in threads I've randomly posted in too often so maybe just message me if you have a point to contend.

ingram_pilot wrote:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. Although a lot of people love it (myself included), I know a few people who dislike it; some quite intensely.

That's certainly good to know. I was worried there for a while. Wink

ingram_pilot wrote:

The plot (what there is of it) suffers because the OAV was designed as a sort of expansion pack to the original Macross TV show. As such, it doesn't stand on it's own quite as well as if it had been made as a full-fledged sequel.

I take your point. Unfortunately, that's not how Manga UK marketed it.

penguintruth -

Does putting "attempted" in front of it really dismiss my point? Even taking ingram_pilot's explanation into account, I still think it's more than a tad nauseating.

britannicamoore -

It's perfectly okay for somebody to write about whatever subject they like, from whatever standpoint they like.
But it's just as okay (and just as necessary for free speech) for others to be able to freely express criticism of - or outrage at - those words, to be able to persuade others of their viewpoint and to call into question the morality, ethics, intelligence or insight of the author.

You seem to want artists to have complete freedom of expression but to deny that freedom to their readers.

britannicamoore/Cowboy Cadenza/Zac:

Good God...Save it for the next Nymphet thread would ya? Rolling Eyes

marie-antoinette wrote:

I'd put Viz up there before CMX though (mainly because I don't own a single volume of CMX manga so whatever they are selling doesn't appeal to me), since they do pretty much have all the biggest selling titles.

Also, Elves, I totally understand your frustration.

It is a part of it, though given the amount of Japanese titles TP do release, I think offering OEL and Manwha is just a way to diversify their content [I've seen them mention on the forums that bookstores often take to manwha and OEL titles due to lesser amounts of adult content- TP can monitor their own content, and in Korea, publishers are more conservative about content in stuff aimed at kids then the Japanese are].

Also, OEL titles are easier to sell to Scholastic- a lot of TP's OEL titles have Book Club editions, along with some of their allages manga titles [like Kingdom Hearts, and +Anime]. ADV Manga has also done an edition of Yotsuba& for Scholastic...... the Book Club takes on very large print runs compared to what the book market'ld get for a reprint, and the titles are offered to readers at a discount. It's a good business [and fun for kids Smile

I loved the Scholastic Book Club......]

PS--- I think you'd totally dig Swan, Moon Child, and From Eroica with Love based on the reviews I've read......... of the titles from CMX I've read, Time Guardian is cute [and made better by being nice and short], Swan is INSANE drama+ballet+crazy layouts, and Emma is just wonderful wonderful somewhat historically accurate fluff without skeeve. Nothing but heartfelt, heartbreaking, very tranquil/serene melodrama. It's a great little series.

Of stuff I've only gotten one volume of, Testarotho is trashtrashtrashviolencetrash, and only recommeneded if you find it for cheap. However, Musashi #9 is fun, though I'd see it as an acquired taste- it's kind of like a more family friendly, shojo version of Golgo 13. I plan to eventually get more.

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