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NEWS: Anime Again Shut Out of Annie Nominations


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kazenoyume



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 425
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:29 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:

kaze: True. Justin just proved older appeal doesn't necessarily mean better quality with his panning of Angel Cop. Wink But Millennium Actress had the same MPAA rating as Spirited Away.


LOL.

Yeah but regardless of MPAA rating, MA is clearly aimed at an older audience. It just doesn't have the nudity and cursing to warrant a higher rating, but no five year old would understand a lick of the story. It's not really a family movie.
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thecactusman17



Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:36 am Reply with quote
Ratatouille is not only the likely winner, but of the many films I have seen anime and otherwise few could come as close to artistic brilliance as that film. I realize that not everyone wants to see another talking rodent out of Disney, but Pixar really nailed that film and it's going to take a hell of a lot more than "zomg anime R rating!" to beat it even if it wasn't against Bee Movie, Simpsons, and Surf's Up. Haven't seen Perseopolis, maybe it could win if the acting is good enough.

Props to the El Tigre team for the best character design nom. I can't stand the show, but I stand transfixed by the stunning artwork in the credits every time I come across them. A great example of ethnic art there.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:43 am Reply with quote
Pretty sure GATSU. Comparing the HIAF to the Annies is like comparing Sundance to the Oscars. It's amazing just how much bias one single person can demonstrate over the course of a single evening. You never fail to astonish GATSU.

As for many to most animators not considering motion capture animation, I think someone hasn't paid attention to the industry in say ... the last 10 years. There's a great deal of work and animation that goes in to using motion capture. You don't just capture the acting and plug it in and bang, it instead opens up a whole lot more artistic processes to be done. It is most certainly animation however, just not of the exact same nature. The whole argument stinks of the entire "New Metallica isn't real Metallica" arguments or "New Country isn't real Country" or "modern art isn't true art" or "modern anime isn't real anime compared to old school" and so on and so forth.

Sorry kaze, but we certainly don't need another "I hate it so, therefore it sucks" basis for argument on these forums. Motion capture is just another style, it still takes as much artistic creativity and creation and rendering and manipulation as other forms of animation, it just involves a single process done in a different way. I'm glad the industry isn't really as short-sighted as you claim they are, here or in Japan. The lack of tolerance for other artistic ideas and expression and styles and genres and so on and so forth represented in this thread is nothing short of disgusting. It's one thing to dislike a style or how it looks but quite another to blast it or attack it and in effect attack those who appreciate it or put their hard work in to creating it just because you don't particularly like the outcome, not to mention attack the process without an understanding or semblance of respect towards the true level of work, creativity and expression that goes in to it.
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manuelRN



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:50 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Comments like these and the stereotypical "American animation suxxxx!!!" comments that are polluting this thread make me sad and rageful.

My apologies to American animation lovers here. This is a message board for those interested in anime not American animation? The article's title, "Anime Again Shut Out of Annie Nominations" gives the impression anime has been shafted at the Annie awards. Naturally, I came to the defense of the underdog but come to realize many member agree anime titles were not worthy of this award anyways. Honestly, I've seen one of the Wallace and Gromit movies and thought it was okay: I'd rather see anime.

I'm bowing out of this discussion as it is not what I expected.
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Lucca_Ashtear



Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:52 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
It used to be about taking cinema in different places than live-action, and now it's just become live-action with a coat of paint on it. (*cough* Beowulf *cough*)

Sorry, but I can't really see this as being unique to American animation. Square-Enix used photo-realism extensively in both their films (including the heavy use of motion capture).
Zac wrote:
Comments like these and the stereotypical "American animation suxxxx!!!" comments that are polluting this thread make me sad and rageful.

Same here. I went in expecting these kind of responses but it's still a bit anguishing. I think the headline also lends itself to this; "Anime Again Shut Out of Annie Nominations" doesn't quite stir positive emotions, at least it didn't for me.
Bob Loblaw wrote:
IRC, isn't it the responsibility of the studios/companies to submit their eligible films to the judging panels?

I think that's a key point. A lot of the past anime nominations were films distributed by Disney, they probably submitted them along with the rest of their works those years. I really can only speculate at this point, but perhaps most anime license holders don't bother submitting their works. If an anime series ran on tv in the US at some point that year, it's just as eligible as a US-produced series. Wolf's Rain was nominated for music in 2004, so it's not only titles being distributed by big names like Disney and Columbia TriStar (Sony).


Last edited by Lucca_Ashtear on Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:53 am Reply with quote
kaze: If five-year olds can get DB and Naruto, I don't see why they'd have a problem with Millennium Actress. It's as subtle as Bambi.

Lucca:
Quote:
Square-Enix used photo-realism extensively in both their films (including the heavy use of motion capture).


Yes, but the motion-capture was only used for basic movements, not for every single effing movement in each scene.

Keonyn:

Quote:
Pretty sure GATSU. Comparing the HIAF to the Annies is like comparing Sundance to the Oscars.


Didn't Little Miss Sunshine win awards at both events...?

Anyway, motion capture should be used sparingly to add to the realism, not to make a production so realistic, that you can't tell the difference between it and live-action. Otherwise, that defeats the purpose of animation.
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kenshin77



Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Posts: 84
Location: The OC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 am Reply with quote
To me it is kinda sad that an Anime was not nominated at the Annie's. I hope that another Anime would win another Oscar, but the industry is not producing quality movie titles like it used to. In the mean time though I hope Ratatouille beats everyone else.

Oh and the Academy should stop being such pompous jerks, and respect that Animation can be a method of storytelling.
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kazenoyume



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 425
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:16 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:

As for many to most animators not considering motion capture animation, I think someone hasn't paid attention to the industry in say ... the last 10 years. There's a great deal of work and animation that goes in to using motion capture. You don't just capture the acting and plug it in and bang, it instead opens up a whole lot more artistic processes to be done. It is most certainly animation however, just not of the exact same nature. The whole argument stinks of the entire "New Metallica isn't real Metallica" arguments or "New Country isn't real Country" or "modern art isn't true art" or "modern anime isn't real anime compared to old school" and so on and so forth.


Sorry what? You think this is an unpopular opinion? The animation community downright splooged over it last year, and this year there's been a load of debating and ranting over whether Beowulf should be eligible. Even the director (I think? Someone else high up in the project if not him) of Beowulf doesn't really consider it animation.

No motion capture is not just as hard. The major benefit to motion capture is that it's EASIER because you do not have to render the movements or anything from scratch. An actor puts on a suit and they go from there. Yes there's still quite a bit of work to be done, but a great deal of the difficult part of animation is covered. Why was mocap used in Happy Feet for example? To cut time and costs. Because it's easier.

It's an easy way out. I fully approve of mocap for use in live action, but in that case shouldn't something like King Kong be eligible for an animation award? He was the star of the movie, but of course that would be ludicrous to nominate it there (even though animated movies can feature live action and still be eligible). Mocap, like King Kong, is a visual effect.

Mocap movies have more in common with a Muppet movie than an animated movie.
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JackLee1978



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:21 am Reply with quote
I stopped caring about the Annie's when Duck Dodgers beat Wolf's Rain for best soundtrack.
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Cold-NiTe



Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:48 am Reply with quote
I for one really want to see Persepolis. I think it's going to clean house as far as awards go. I also saw and enjoyed Ratatouille. (Way more than Bee Movie, anyway.)

But what bothers me is that we don't even see nominations for Anime. I mean, sure I'm not expecting all the different Japanese works to take all the awards. But some recognition wouldn't hurt. Or would it? Is it a scary prospect perhaps? That a country has managed to advance it's Animation industry to the point that it's becoming a powerful international export?

I guess it is. At least, that's what reading between the lines of the Annie Awards' various choices tells me.

I could be wrong.

But I'm definitely feeling this one.
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kazenoyume



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 425
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:12 am Reply with quote
Cold-NiTe wrote:

But what bothers me is that we don't even see nominations for Anime. I mean, sure I'm not expecting all the different Japanese works to take all the awards. But some recognition wouldn't hurt. Or would it? Is it a scary prospect perhaps? That a country has managed to advance it's Animation industry to the point that it's becoming a powerful international export?


Yes but what anime film titles could be nominated this year? The studios who have them would have to send a screener copy and-

a) There have been very few anime movies released this year domestically.
b) No one but a major studio is likely to submit, so unless it gets picked up by Sony Pictures Classics, Disney, etc- it's not likely to get submitted for Annie consideration.

These people don't have the time to screen every piece of animation in the world. They're only going to be able to screen what is submitted to them. That's totally fair.

Before everyone cries foul, I just want to know what's supposedly getting gypped. I looked at the movies that were submitted for qualification in the academy's best animation category and only one was Japanese. It was Tekkonkonrit, which hasn't exactly received rave reviews.

If there's no anime eligible, then what are we even complaining about? Last year the only anime I can think of that would have been "gypped" would be Paprika, and it's entirely possible that Sony didn't put it up for their consideration.

That being said- Japanese animation usually wins the Japanese awards, American animation usually wins the American awards. *shrug* But really, American animation can't even break through here. It's still considered second rate and relegated to best animated categories. The general public hasn't even heard of the Annie Awards. Maybe before talking about how omg cheated anime is, we should be concerned about getting animation as a whole appreciated over here instead of being treated as some lower art form.

The complaint here should be that studios over here need to pay more attention to anime, not that awards shows are gypping it. But if anime isn't profitable, then why should studios pay more attention to it? Can you blame them? They're trying to make money and it doesn't bring it in. Anime movies are not a powerful international export. They simply don't do very well here. Vicious circle.
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Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:29 am Reply with quote
Could've been worse....lucky Nickelodeon didn't release an Avatar Movie....
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mike.motaku



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:39 am Reply with quote
No way (cough-crap-cough) Bee Movie and (urp)(no emoticon that indicates throwing up a little in your mouth) Surf's Up were better than Paprika or 5 Centimeters Per Second or The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. No way.
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kazenoyume



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 425
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:49 am Reply with quote
mike.motaku wrote:
No way (cough-crap-cough) Bee Movie and (urp)(no emoticon that indicates throwing up a little in your mouth) Surf's Up were better than Paprika or 5 Centimeters Per Second or The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. No way.


Well I agree with that, but Paprika came out last year and was eligible for the Annies and the Academy Awards in '06 so it isn't applicable here. I'm not necessarily standing up for what the Annies award- not at all. Awarding Wallace and Grommit over Howl and Shrek over Monster's Inc will never stop being ridiculous to me. However, I just don't get where the complaints of non-anime bias come from. Award shows are hugely dictated by marketing and such, and if anime isn't given that it has no chance.

Neither 5 cm or Toki Wo are licensed here yet, so there's no way the judges would have been given screener copies. Even in the best foreign language category at the Academy Awards, movies don't really get nominated without a domestic release. *shrug*

I'm honestly more peeved Meet the Robinsons wasn't nominated. It was by no means a great movie or even that good, but it was a gem compared to Bee Movie and Surf's Up. At least it had good ideas and some genuinely funny bits, even if it was sort of messy on the whole. Ugh.
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CitizenGeek



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 136
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:14 am Reply with quote
This really is quite ridiculous! In a year that's seen Tekkonkinkreet and Paprika released, for not a single anime to make it to those awards is ridiculous.
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