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BleuVII wrote:

I think it's good that an industry rep is responding to this letter. However, I think he forgot to touch on the main point in the open letter, which is that US anime fans have no way to preview most shows before we buy them. All we have is the cover and reviews we have read online. With that, a $25-$40 impulse buy is hard to justify.

That's not all we have, not always. Yes, there's got to be more ways to preview a series, I agree, but you can rent (Netflix as a decent selection of current anime, I'd imagine Rent Anime would be even better), some cable services offer "Anime On Demand" services (I have Comcast and it does), we do get SOME anime on TV, etc. I think it would be a good idea for the anime industry to somehow promote renting titles, or other cheap ways to preview product. I know I've been much more likely to buy things I've watched through Netflix (I just bought Neon Genesis Evangelion thanks to Netflix--although partially because they're missing the 6th disc, it's enough to make me wonder if ADV did that on purpose >>; ), maybe other fans will, too.

...Then again, I have a pretty good amount of disposable income, try to buy things on sale, and tend to be more religious about buying things I've watched through fansubs than the average fan, so I might not be a good example. Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

J-Syxx wrote:

Quote:

Leave please.

Oh great counter argument. Am I suppsoed to bow down to these guys like you do because they are real, actual Japanese men? Rolling Eyes

Seriously, they don't respect the fact that the US market is different than their's, so why should I respect them?

Second point is it's completely laughable to believe anything this company says pertaining to the future of anime in America. They will be going out of business soon because they are too arrogant to change their extremely flawed business model. The niche market willing to pay those prices in Japan does not exist here period.

This is more the response I expected considering how the usual reaction on this site to all things Bandai Visual is usually very negative.

Of course they agree the release times should be closer--isn't that what they pitched their higher sub-only 2-3 ep dvd priced on? So no change whatsoever there, right?

How about if American comapnies announced their licenses earlier? They could still wait a year to allow the Japanese release (ADV seems to love long waits on releases after a title's announced) thus the Japanese fans would have to decide if waiting to import the American product is still worth it if they have to wait a year, but any fansubber that still abides by the fansubber's code couldn't even start to fansub the title if it's announced say before the first ep airs.
There does seem to ne a reason for that code. I spent about half an hour strolling thru the Copyright site yesterday & just about every section dealt with destroying the illegal copies (Did you know taping a movie in a theater is worth 3 yrs in a federal prison & the 2nd time is 6 yrs? So the argument that making a copy of an anime doesn't remove the use of the anime because you haven't taken it as one steals other object doesn't exactly fly, does it? Recording the movie in a theater is pretty much the same thing, isn't it? The movie never leaves the hands of the theater, right?) So maybe the whole taking down the fansub was as much for the protection of the fansubber as it was being nice to the anime company.

But we really DON'T need stupid wishes like J-Sixx's. The American anime market is having issues. We don't need to wish anyone else to go under. You either play ball & buy Bandai Visual products or you don't. They don't sell titles the masses particularly want that I know of, but their stuff is awesome. I have no regrets over purchasing Demon Prince Enma or Super Robot Wars because the visual is very impressive & the titles very enjoyable. In fact, I've been re-doing my collection since the fires (personally thin-boxing some stuff like stuff I'm missing a box on-Never bought the first YuYu Hakusho box set, so I thin-packed the dvds into the Tourni set to save shelf space)--1(6 ft by 4 ft bookcase) for the A-M, 1 for N-Z & 1 for special stuff-DB/Z on the top shelf so I don't have to shuffle it around(& DBZ's been skinny-case packed), Clamp, Sailor Moon, Go Nagai-& I've shoved Super Robot Wars in by Gundam because I really can't see putting it with the alphabetical stuff since the dvd is pretty special in itself. I might, should I wind up with a lot of Bandai Visual, have to just file them all in the special stuff bookcase as Bandai Visual product
It's sort of a "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" type thing. If you;re going to whine about their prices, Bandai Visual isn't for you

jsevakis wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

It is good that they seem to be listening but I don't think he is getting the point all that much.

Well, you must understand that this is a lot more significant than it seems. First of all, Konno-san is saying outright that they agree that things must change, and they are in the process of experimenting. This is way beyond what many Japanese companies will ever admit. The Japanese method of public facade (tattemae) means that everything always must be presented as internal, proprietary perfection, even if there is a lot of difficulty behind the scenes. For a company that works by that sensibility to say publicly that an outsider might have something important to contribute says a lot about their honesty. I don't take his silence on the internet transfer -- the crux of my essay -- to mean he didn't digest it or take it into account. He likely has nothing to say publicly on the matter yet. It doesn't mean nothing is happening.

Growing up American may affect my perception, but as a consumer that kind of infallible attitude repulses me. I frankly can't see how it could work in any fashion. Of course, the cultural divide is wide, and It probably makes perfect sense in Japan. Still, though, I think it's a really poor method of public relations. Nobody's perfect, as they say, and if you bill yourself as perfect, then the people who support you will feel betrayed and turn on you in an instant when your imperfections are outed. Portraying yourself as well-meaning and competant but human allows you to weather a public relations crisis easier- after all, everyone always knew you'd make mistakes occasionally.

Quote:

I don't know many people that agree with their price point, but what Konno-san is saying is that they are trying to let demand dictate price. As they are not selling many, they must sell for a higher price point in order to keep the release from losing money.

But as the tenor of these boards shows, the higher price means you'll sell less, unless you've got a must-have series. Sounds like a vicious circle to me. Bad times...

Konno said by"Next Spring"?

By next spring the damage will be far worse than it is now.
I think Bandai Visual has too much to keep track of.Bandai USA brings much more than just Anime to our shores.

Maybe we can reach the companies Bandai merged with.

Quote:

But we really DON'T need stupid wishes like J-Sixx's. The American anime market is having issues. We don't need to wish anyone else to go under.

Yes, because a company that has never really contributed to the anime market sales wise, and probalby never will, going out of business is as big of a deal as Geneon who has been a big player since day one. Rolling Eyes

But yes, lets all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters. If it means going broke spending money on sub-only releases priced 3 times more than other comapnies likes sister, Bandai Ent. USA, it will all be worth it to keep around this company who won't listen to their customers, right? Rolling Eyes

J-Syxx wrote:

Yes, because a company that has never really contributed to the anime market sales wise, and probalby never will, going out of business is as big of a deal as Geneon who has been a big player since day one. Rolling Eyes

But yes, lets all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters. If it means going broke spending money on sub-only releases priced 3 times more than other comapnies likes sister, Bandai Ent. USA, it will all be worth it to keep around this company who won't listen to their customers, right? Rolling Eyes

How does allowing an anime company to try for the collector crowd equal

Quote:

all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters

. ?

Have you bought one of their dvds? If not, you're not really one of their customers.

I tend to pay less than $20 for dvds. I had to pay more than that to get M because it's a "collector" movie-subtitled with the original German dialogue. I accept it was worth more money to see one of Peter Lorre's best roles. I paid around $27 for each of the 3 Bandai Visual dvds I own. Yes, I pay the same for Naruto box sets. That isn't any sort of a close comaprison. 2 eps of Demon Prince Enma are worth more to me than 13 eps of Naruto. If I only had $30 to spend, I'd buy more Demon Prince Enma or Super Robot Wars over the next Naruto box

I don't eat caviar. I don't tell people selling caviar what to sell it for. If I wanted to eat caviar, I would shop for the best price I could get, but there's not really much point crying caviar costs more than McDonald's, is there? Steak costs more than hamburger also. Shall I cry about that?

If they were dubbed & priced at the same range as other anime dvds, you would buy them? Or are you just whining?

GATSU wrote:

Quote:

But if the quality is unsatisfactory, isn't the cheap price still expensive?

That assumes that other companies can't put out a decent release as well as BV.

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Since the anime market is far smaller than the general DVD market or TV distribution market, we cannot use the same distribution channels as the ones that the major Hollywood studios or TV networks use.

Why not? If AS, CN, and THC can air "Evangelion", "Only Yesterday", and "FLCL", what makes it hard for you to give your properties more exposure? You're bigger than STA, too, so what's your excuse?

It's the money issue. It's very expensive to influence broadcaster
to show niche shows like Anime. Word of mouth among fans can't convince broadcaster. It's the numbers that convince broadcast business people. For one thing, BV has to figure out actual number of audience who watched their show plus the revenue they made. If I remember correctly, weren't "Evangelion" and "FLCL" aired late night?
If BV had tons of money like Hollywood, they would have no problem showing "Gundam" on the Prime Time on a regular channel instead of specialty channel at late night.

CCSYueh wrote:

J-Syxx wrote:

Yes, because a company that has never really contributed to the anime market sales wise, and probalby never will, going out of business is as big of a deal as Geneon who has been a big player since day one. Rolling Eyes

But yes, lets all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters. If it means going broke spending money on sub-only releases priced 3 times more than other comapnies likes sister, Bandai Ent. USA, it will all be worth it to keep around this company who won't listen to their customers, right? Rolling Eyes

How does allowing an anime company to try for the collector crowd equal

Quote:

all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters

. ?

Have you bought one of their dvds? If not, you're not really one of their customers.

I tend to pay less than $20 for dvds. I had to pay more than that to get M because it's a "collector" movie-subtitled with the original German dialogue. I accept it was worth more money to see one of Peter Lorre's best roles. I paid around $27 for each of the 3 Bandai Visual dvds I own. Yes, I pay the same for Naruto box sets. That isn't any sort of a close comaprison. 2 eps of Demon Prince Enma are worth more to me than 13 eps of Naruto. If I only had $30 to spend, I'd buy more Demon Prince Enma or Super Robot Wars over the next Naruto box

I don't eat caviar. I don't tell people selling caviar what to sell it for. If I wanted to eat caviar, I would shop for the best price I could get, but there's not really much point crying caviar costs more than McDonald's, is there? Steak costs more than hamburger also. Shall I cry about that?

If they were dubbed & priced at the same range as other anime dvds, you would buy them? Or are you just whining?

I agree with you, man. Too many whining on something they don't even buy. I don't even know if these new anime fans will buy Patlabor 2 movie which came out 15 years ago for a decent price.

Quote:

I don't eat caviar. I don't tell people selling caviar what to sell it for. If I wanted to eat caviar, I would shop for the best price I could get, but there's not really much point crying caviar costs more than McDonald's, is there? Steak costs more than hamburger also. Shall I cry about that?

I can't speak for all BV's detractors, but I don't object to what they charge for their "collectors" releases, I object to the fact that if you want to buy a show they license, you can pay $50 for three episodes or you can go home, with no affordable alternative for people who don't have the cash or inclination to pay that much for the show. Contrast with, say, the Haruhi Suzumiya releases, which have a super-expensive "steak" version, but if you just want to watch the damn show you can buy the basic disc. Show me where BV does that and I'll admit your analogy makes sense.

nargun wrote:

Conan-san wrote:

I'd have to agree, if one company would benift from fansubs disspearing it would be Bandi "Lol, 2 eps for $50" Visual.

Not so much. In fact, there's a decent position to be advanced that "since the people buying the product are the ones willing to pay money rather than bootleg it, we may as well soak them and let the freeriders ride free" is a rational solution to the problem of widespread what-one-might-call "uncompensated copying".

I can't see many people buying 13 volumes of SRT OG Devine wars for $40 a slice.

I don't understand where this entire notion of pushing for day-and-date DVD releases with Japan came from. North American consumers want, by and large, want anime to move away from the Japanese model of distribution, and towards full, economical boxset releases that cost no more than $70-80.

Trying to push things further towards the Japanese distribution model will only turn more people off.

J-Syxx wrote:

Quote:

Leave please.

Oh great counter argument. Am I suppsoed to bow down to these guys like you do because they are real, actual Japanese men? Rolling Eyes

No, here are the points you are missing-

1. The context of the word rape that you used, like how everyone else does it on here, is a sheer misappropriation and down-right disrespectful.

2. Purporting people here are all pro-fansub, when it's been proven time and time again that the majority of contributing posters here are not.

3. Assuming I'm bowing to anyone- I disagree with BV-USA's tactics, and I find their response to be lacking in full understanding of the situation nor is it an ideal way to tackle the issue.

BV-USA has some insane tactics, but all you're portraying is an insane, moronic knee-jerk reaction. You cannot fight fire with fire, anymore than you can fight fire with a neuclear blast.

BellosTheMighty wrote:

Growing up American may affect my perception, but as a consumer that kind of infallible attitude repulses me. I frankly can't see how it could work in any fashion. Of course, the cultural divide is wide, and It probably makes perfect sense in Japan. Still, though, I think it's a really poor method of public relations. Nobody's perfect, as they say, and if you bill yourself as perfect, then the people who support you will feel betrayed and turn on you in an instant when your imperfections are outed. Portraying yourself as well-meaning and competant but human allows you to weather a public relations crisis easier- after all, everyone always knew you'd make mistakes occasionally.

Historically, in Japan, having the perception of being "perfect" was all things in life and to be "outed as imperfect" was a immediate death sentence, whether by youself, or by someone else, as society demanded it. That way of life, though well diluted, is still imbedded into their culture and especially when dealing openly with their society coloured by that culture still, old habits and all that.
European culture has generally never had that sort of mind set in it's history that would have been exported over to the colonies that later became the USA, as your attitude toward the idea of imperfection as not a death sentence. shows. Indeed we have a saying here in the UK that my mother-in-law likes to use which is "Pride goes before a fall", meaning that if the Japanese producers and distributors don't do something about the way the market has evolved around them in the world, because of pride that they did not think of the solution themselves, but had to listen to foreigners telling them how to change their business plan, then they will feel the pain of failure at their own hand. But again, old habits are the hardest to break. Still Mr. Konno's response isn't "nice idea but we aren't bothered" like I got from AIC long ago when I suggested putting English subs on to their titles before releasing them, to quench the main fire that heated fansubs. They came back with "We don't want back importing" completely missing the point that they would only be available in Japan in the first place. Rolling Eyes

Bandai's perception of US anime fandom as an "extreme niche market" is complete and utter bullcrap. Not only are they completely glossing over the significance of casual anime fans, but they are completely misreading the priorities of even the "hardcore". I, for one, enjoy English dubs (for the most part) and do NOT have steep pockets. I like to buy DVDs, but I expect a proper balance between price and quality. I would have bought "Gunbuster" in an instant if they had at least taken the courtesy of providing an English dub. See my post on the blog as "ikari911".

J-Syxx wrote:

Quote:

But we really DON'T need stupid wishes like J-Sixx's. The American anime market is having issues. We don't need to wish anyone else to go under.

Yes, because a company that has never really contributed to the anime market sales wise, and probalby never will, going out of business is as big of a deal as Geneon who has been a big player since day one. Rolling Eyes

But yes, lets all bow down to our corporate Japanese masters. If it means going broke spending money on sub-only releases priced 3 times more than other comapnies likes sister, Bandai Ent. USA, it will all be worth it to keep around this company who won't listen to their customers, right? Rolling Eyes

Seems to me most of your points here are just disgruntled ramblings. I mean you don't really back up a single point with any real proof or evidence to support your claims. You sound more like the whiny kid who just doesn't want to spend any money. You seem to fail to understand any reasoning behind their business choices and choose simply to complain because you don't wanna have to spend any real money. You're childish remarks also don't help your case any.

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