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Hey, Answerman: On Strike!

Damnit, people, Bell's not a doormat! She takes the initiative; she doesn't automatically do whatever Keiichi wants; and she calls the shots in the relationship. Cooking and cleaning are a sign of civilization, not a holdover from a primitive generation of man. For f*ck's sake, does she have to bag a bear and get in a bar fight to prove she's "tough" or what?!

I get that Belldandy's supposed to be a fantasy sweetheart, but it's a little discouraging that some guys out there still want the old 50s stereotype of the perfect woman - loves taking care of the housework, never disagrees or argues, and doesn't have any real interests or ambitions outside of taking care of her man and immediate family... yeah. Aren't you guys bored of this yet?

The soft-spoken, passive, non-threatening girls are okay in small doses, but when they show up as the heroine in every single romance show, and she's always the one that the hero picks, you start to get the idea that this is supposed to be the ideal that everyone else is measured by.

God, isn't anyone else *tired* of Belldandy girls?

Cooking and cleaning are a sign of civilization, not a holdover from a primitive generation of man. For f*ck's sake, does she have to bag a bear and get in a bar fight to prove she's "tough" or what?!

Of course Japan apparently believes we're more open to homosexuality than they are so it's really perspective. I always thought they were more open considering how one sees it in anime(even in shonen stuff). Europe also seems more open, but I don't know. I don't live there, so maybe the guys there are also squishy with 2 guys hanging together & not worrying whether someone might perceive them as homosexual or not.

Damnit, people, Bell's not a doormat! She takes the initiative; she doesn't automatically do whatever Keiichi wants; and she calls the shots in the relationship. Cooking and cleaning are a sign of civilization, not a holdover from a primitive generation of man. For f*ck's sake, does she have to bag a bear and get in a bar fight to prove she's "tough" or what?!

Then why doesn't Keiichi do the housework?

Damnit, people, Bell's not a doormat! She takes the initiative; she doesn't automatically do whatever Keiichi wants; and she calls the shots in the relationship. Cooking and cleaning are a sign of civilization, not a holdover from a primitive generation of man. For f*ck's sake, does she have to bag a bear and get in a bar fight to prove she's "tough" or what?!

Cowboy:

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Then why doesn't Keiichi do the housework?

Shopping doesn't count as housework?

To be fair, I'm with Gatsu on this one. Belldandy makes sense considering the conciet of the show. (On a side note, I notice noone ever gets up in arms about Gourry from Slayers).

Double bonus point- The '1950's Housewife' stereotype, is itself a mini-stereotype. Like a lot of our cultural CW, it's a vanity point for the Baby Boom generation, who like to pretend everything in America was dominated by buzzcut, sexually-repressed WASP cavemen who ate ham and mayonnaise three times a day until the 60's generation saved the day. While there was certainly not the gender parity we have today, the whole ultra-popular Tracy-Hepburn schtick through the 40's was a quick career women outwitting her stodgy husband. If women were supposed to be colorless domestic slaves, this type of material wouldn't be so popular/ubiquitous through the 30's/40's/50's.

CCSYueh wrote:

Yaoi isn't gay porn.

Actually...that's pretty much exactly what yaoi is.

Seif wrote:

Isn't Shounen Ai the boy's love story you're talking about whilst Yaoi is the more hardcore sexual varation? Given, yaoi is a catch-all term, but isn't being porn what seprates the two?

This is what I've been saying for a while now, but apparently yaoi fans have it in their minds that this is not the case. This distinction makes everything so much easier, though.

Let me just also state that the words "shounen-ai" is directly translated as "boy's love." That is the meaning of those Japanese words exactly. The term for YAOI is translated as "no climax, no resolution, no meaning." It refers to sexually explicit "boy's love" material.

Edit: Seems like I'm pretty much just repeating what Seif has already said. Woo.

Barf.

While I can't possibly endorse this release - the whole concept makes my flesh crawl - so far, not even the hardcore gay porn you find in manga aisles has managed to cause any kind of a stir. This is - I think, anyway - the first lolicon title that's explicit enough to be released here with shrinkwrap, so the potential for danger is probably higher than it is with yaoi manga, but for right now I'm not sure I'd be panicked about this release.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

CCSYueh wrote: Yaoi isn't gay porn. Actually...that's pretty much exactly what yaoi is. Seif wrote: Isn't Shounen Ai the boy's love story you're talking about whilst Yaoi is the more hardcore sexual varation? Given, yaoi is a catch-all term, but isn't being porn what seprates the two? This is what I've been saying for a while now, but apparently yaoi fans have it in their minds that this is not the case. This distinction makes everything so much easier, though. Let me just also state that the words "shounen-ai" is directly translated as "boy's love." That is the meaning of those Japanese words exactly. The term for YAOI is translated as "no climax, no resolution, no meaning." It refers to sexually explicit "boy's love" material. Edit: Seems like I'm pretty much just repeating what Seif has already said. Woo.

I fully support all the yuri to be brought over. I often go to those threads to show my support. I really don't recall anyone referring to yuri as "lesbian porn".
I remember several scenes of girl-on-girl action in Obari's Angel Blade, yet I don't see it referred to as "lesbian porn", nor do I see any of the hentai flyers Right Stuf is so fond of sending me because I buy yaoi referring to the titles as "lesbian porn"
Fact is it usually comes off that the people who dislike yaoi are the ones quickest to discount it as "gay porn". I've seen many people question why women want to read "gay porn" because obviously it's aimed at gay guys. Even the original connotation in the column-

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Barf. While I can't possibly endorse this release - the whole concept makes my flesh crawl - so far, not even the hardcore gay porn you find in manga aisles has managed to cause any kind of a stir. This is - I think, anyway - the first lolicon title that's explicit enough to be released here with shrinkwrap, so the potential for danger is probably higher than it is with yaoi manga, but for right now I'm not sure I'd be panicked about this release.

can be interpreted as meaning yaoi is about as bad as loli in the skin-crawl factor since he is comparing something that makes his skin crawl to what he deems hardcore gay porn. (I assume he wasn't actually headed in that direction & that he actually has no real problem with yaoi).
Just as not everyone in the past who used the "n" word wasn't necessarily using it as an insult (some people learned it as the commonly used word to address African Americans & many of them saw the error of their education in the '60's & earlier & stopped using the term-my mother commented it was what she was taught to call them growing up in the south & saw no harm to it but stopped when she learned it was harmful), it was used to separate & keep African Americans down. No, I'm not equating calling yaoi gay porn with using the "n" word other than in the light that most often when one hears or sees someone using it, that user is usually putting down, dismissing the genre. A fanbase is nothing compared to an entire race of people. I even find it stupid when one hears one race trying to say they have it worse than another race because all the difficulties faced by any group unjustly is wrong. It's stupid to argue if slavery or the Holocaust was worse-they were both horrible things. The comparison is simply that it is a dismissal, a put down-the porn part actually more than the gay part since porn does hold a negative connotation in our society. If I referred to something as "shonen crap" instead of "shonen manga" it's obviously a put down.

I've actually seen some gays upset with yaoi since it does perpetuate stereotypes. Since it is often written by women with little experience with guys & is, in fact, an outgrowth of shojo, the uke is very often a girl with guy plumbing-emotional, indecisive, unsure like the heroines in some romance novels. I actually enjoy the titles where the uke doesn't go on for 50 pages on whether the seme loves him or if he's just a replacement for the guy's last lover or "any port in a storm". I sure don't remember spending that much time worrying whether my husband was doing that.

@Belldandy:

Iniksbane wrote:

To be fair, I'm with Gatsu on this one. Belldandy makes sense considering the conciet of the show. (On a side note, I notice noone ever gets up in arms about Gourry from Slayers).

As much Gourry upholds the dumb blond stereotype, but he does show that he can be much smarter than he acts and very gallant. He is not as one-note as Belldandy.

I'll tell you what the best show with Strong Female Leads are, Red Garden, they portray the lead females as flawed individuals but people who eventually face the music and toughen it out, despite the fact they are going through hell.