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NEWS: Japanese Panel Pushes Ban on Illegal Downloads Forward

Because there is a level of physicality involved in bodies that is not in downloading. To see bodies you must force your way on to someone else's physical property against their will to get to it. To download something you are not ever touching physical property but rather dealing in the raw essence of an idea in digital form. It doesn't exist in any tangible way at all and is more akin to sharing a speech you paid to see with someone else who didn't attend, than forcing your way into an exhibit of bodies.

Want to argue that, how bout i take a magnet to something "non tangible" and see what happens to it.

And again, i state how can you objectively call into question the morals of this specific topic (i could care less about other topics) when you have shown and admitted to having no morals on the subject at hand?

We own the product we worked on & nothing in the user-end agreement gives you the right to view it outside the market we've already contracted with

The law is there to protect everyones rights, not give everything to everybody just because they want it.

You are beating around the bush as well with comments like this. If I do this to my hard drive it only gets rid of the copy from that hard drive. It doesn't remove the copy from someone elses hard drive or from the internet or anywhere else. No one here has said that copies aren't represented in some form or fashion physically, but they are represented in an extremely abstract manner that does not cause other copies to exist in any lesser form or fashion.

This statement makes little sense. Lets take the example of homosexuality again. If you believe that it is OK to be homosexual does that mean you have "no morals" on that subject? If you don't have a problem with homosexuality, is it then wrong for you to take a position against laws that violate the freedom of homosexuals? This seems to be what you are indicating. You are saying that if we believe something is OK, we cannot disagree with laws proposed by those that think the activity is not OK. This is exactly what you are saying above.

You are correct that this is what companies like Gonzo say, based on the laws of the land. I do not deny this in the least. You are also right that I "ignore" the rights. I ignore them because i don't believe they exist outside of government construct. I don't believe that copyright is the same as inalienable rights. I don't believe that copyright is "ownership" either. While Gonzo may believe that they should own something and have a right to choose what people do with it I disagree. I agree with copyright insofar as it is about commercial distribution, but beyond that I disagree with it. And yes, because I disagree with it I ignore it.

This is not wordplay, this is a difference of opinion. Because I lack your core beliefs about "inalienable copyright" I don't agree with your position. This is totally about a difference of axioms and core beliefs. My reasoning is consistent with my beliefs. The reason you think I am playing a game with my words is that my reasoning is not consistent with your beliefs.

I agree with you that authors/animators need to be paid, but there are multiple ways to accomplish that. Obviously, sales of some kind of product (physical or digital, subscription or permanent) will be necessary to do this. I don't deny that. This is why I support copyright insofar as it is about eliminating bootlegs which definitely take money from those responsible for actually making the original content. However, going after free distribution is entirely different. That is totally based on the person downloading. Some do not have the money to pay. Others use it as a method of sampling. Others use it simply because it's faster. Yes it's true that some money is lost because people will choose not to pay because they will get it free, but these people generally do not value the thing they are downloading as much as other things that they want. In other words, they probably would have spent the money elsewhere anyway.

However, unlike in the United States and other countries, it is legal for people in Japan to download unauthorized material for private use. After issuing a request for public comments, the subcommittee received 7,500 responses. Makoto Kawase, the head of the agency's Copyrighted Work Circulation Promotion Department, said that it has never received this many comments for a proposed piece of legislation before. Even though Kawase noted that the vast majority of the public comments called for no change in the copyright law, Kawase said that revising article 30 is "inevitable."

This is not wordplay, this is a difference of opinion. Because I lack your core beliefs about "inalienable copyright" I don't agree with your position. This is totally about a difference of axioms and core beliefs. My reasoning is consistent with my beliefs. The reason you think I am playing a game with my words is that my reasoning is not consistent with your beliefs.

This recent argument gave me an idea for solving the overall problem of copyright in the digital age:

Everyone simply needs to only create new works that exist as quantum mechanical states.

Is stealing a good thing, or a desirable trait or action? Yes or no will suffice. Don't give me some beat around the bush answer, yes or no..period.

Yes or no... Can you bring up morality about a specific subject, when you have no moral opinion on the subject because you have been immoral in actions concerning said subject. This is a yes or no answer, there is no gray area.

samuelp wrote:

This recent argument gave me an idea for solving the overall problem of copyright in the digital age: Everyone simply needs to only create new works that exist as quantum mechanical states.

Are you kidding? People throw a hissy fit even if free content has DRM. What your describing(assuming a more advanced state) is like DRM on steroids. I can see the riots now.

Despite that long-winded post you still failed to look at the bigger picture. The law is there to protect everyones rights, not give everything to everybody just because they want it.

Who pays the animators then for the hard work they put in to these shows? Who pays the creators and writers for the all the time they spend developing these titles? You're demanding something as a right and ignoring the rights of others. The laws job isn't there to cater to just them or just you but to provide something that protects the rights of both. This is done by allowing you the right to purchase and own while still giving them the right to earn their living. You can type type type in this round about discussion all you want but you've still failed through all your huge long posts to do anything aside from demanding the law look only at your desires and rights and dismiss the people who actually earn their living through the work. We might as well tell your employer that they no longer have to pay you.

9 out of 10 people in this country have shoplifted or stolen. That's a larger group than downloaders of anime I'm willing to bet. So what now? Since laws protecting peoples property are making so many people criminals we should just do away with them? Heck, while we're at it there's far too many murderers out there. If laws against murder are putting so many people behind bars we might as well just do away with those too. Your entire argument is ridiculously flawed, my god man, if the world worked around your funky little system we'd be at war non-stop and killing each other by the thousands daily. People who sit there playing armchair lawmaker never seem to have any sense of the big picture and the millions of lives these things effect, but rather just the small picture of them and their friends.

The law is in place to protect the rights of people on all sides. Like it or not what you're asking for tramples the rights of others. I'm sorry you feel you are more important than them, but luckily not everyone out there is so dismissive towards others rights.

I love this one.

Can said data be transfered to a disk or other media storage? Yep, guess what, even being put on a hard drive has just been given a physical form. Want to argue that, how bout i take a magnet to something "non tangible" and see what happens to it.

Bytes despite popular opinion are tangible, there are just very many ways of storing such property.

If the argument is that such things are not tangible, then go nuke your hard drive or other media storage devices and show me just how non tangible they are. If it can break, that means it is tangible, and is physical property. If you didn't pay for whats on that property, then it is stolen property.

It is simply mind boggling how many people will try to defend, justify, talk around, word play, beat around the bush, create and misuse euphemism and do anything but admit what they are doing is not only stealing, but is with out question wrong and in violation of rights of those whom worked to create such works of artistic merit.

And on a final note, no, I do not think every law is moral and just. However, stealing, tanking with out permission, taking with out consent or any other word play you want to use is wrong, and immoral. It's one of the reasons every country on the planet has laws against such. If you wanted to argue "if everyone thinks the law is wrong it should be changed". Sorry it doesn't hold water, considering every nation, province or territory has laws that forbid exactly what your trying to argue, that being stealing/theft.

You didn't explain to me how you gained ownership of the anime you're downloading.

But Exxon does have an everlasting monopoly to all oil that they pump out of the ground. It's called ownership. No other company can tap into an Exxon-owned well and use that crude for themselves without paying Exxon for the privilege.

But Exxon does have an everlasting monopoly to all oil that they pump out of the ground. It's called ownership. No other company can tap into an Exxon-owned well and use that crude for themselves without paying Exxon for the privilege.

If someone puts hard work and effort in to it then it's their right to be paid for the work they performed the same as it is your right to be paid for the work you perform at your job. You want to trample rights then that's fine, but if you're just going to go in a circular argument and repeat your "I don't believe in peoples rights" argument then you can just stop right now because this is a discussion, not a roundabout argument for you to use your lack of belief of peoples rights as an excuse to satisfy your greed.

That's not a monopoly, they own that property and the oil they produce through that property is their product. They're not the only oil company so therefore there is competition and thus it is not a monopoly. They simply have a product the same as the others.

Anime studios also do not have monopoly and the misuse of the word here makes me wonder how well our schools teach economics. The anime they produce is just their product, that then goes out and competes with all the other anime products produced. There is no single entity controlling all anime products so therefore there is no monopoly. Rather you have a studio creating an individual product to compete with the rest, but if you want anime you could go to any studio or writer to get it. Sure it wouldn't be the exact same show but that's the nature of competition, they create something somewhat different to draw in a market share by creating appeal to set their product apart. That's the very nature of competition and is pretty much the exact opposite of a monopoly.

Then you tell me, define for me why copyright is a natural and important right. Why is copyright necessary for the survival of human society? I've given you my take now so it'd be nice to hear yours.

My hard drive is tangible, what's on it is not, and while I may mourn the loss of some files that were especially important to me, I'm smart enough to make backup copies of my important work. :p The data itself has no form it exists independently from all this. The hard drive is physical, the data is not and much of it exists in my mind. I may have some time consuming mechanical issues reproducing it, but I can if I really want to. It's just a matter of taking the time and effort, which I can whole heartedly say I'd rather not do.