Forum - View topicTokyopop Initial D thoughts...
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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As one adult to, um, probably not another adult, judging by your SN at least, I'd have to say that I woud NEVER watch Initial D sober. Folks, it IS the next Speed Racer. The races are goofy and rediculous and DEAR GOD why do the characters have such deformed lips? But, personal feelings on the show aside, the original Speed Racer was also more "adult oriented" in it's Japanese incarnation but I'm not sure Fredd Ladd imagined he could get away with pushing this goofy racing cartoon with an overalls-clad monkey towards adults. Same with Initial D. Inundate me with "IT COULD DO WELL ON MTV!!! SERIOUSLY!!!" requests all you like, but the only people on this continent that will take the implausible wackiness of Initial D seriously are dumb kids. They're the only folks in this country who would make the mistake of calling Initial D "cool" or "badass" hence why TP is marketing towards them. And, just in case anyone from TP is monitoring these threads: HEY, FIND A WAY TO GET PEACH GIRL ANIMATED, OK please thanks Ginsu: I played the Barbie NES game today. She throws underhand softballs at various pink fluffy things. It was funny. |
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ZanLong
Posts: 12 |
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Remember, they're not after your money specifically. They want to get as much as possible, from anyone who will give it to them. The market will decide which version emerges triumphant
The market has already decide. It has for near to 15 years. This market wants unedited version of both manga and anime. Viz and Dark Horse/Studio Proteus have been in the US manga market for all of those 15 years. That is a long time for something that is still being called a trend. The reason they are still around is that they do listen to this market. Dark Horse is not a manga exclusive company Right, They have a Star Wars line of book, Buffy book. They do have a lot more then manga, agreed. But they have been putting out manga for near 15 years, and doing well. Because they know the market, and they know what will get them the most money. Viz is the American arm of Japanese manga publisher Shogakukan. This gives stablility and resources True, but if they did not follow, or listen to the market they would not have lasted that long, even with big pockets. Same point here, they know the market and what will get them the most money. Furthermore, they are content to rest on their laurels, so to speak, rather than agressively seeking a wider audience as Tokyopop has done. Tokyopop is trying to blaze a trail through public awareness as no other manga company has done before and I admire them for it. So Viz and Dark Horse/Studio Proteus should just drop there main market that they worked 15 year to get, so that they can nab a few mainstream viewers who have probley never picked up a manga, let a lone a US comic book. to see most of them drop the book after the cool factor goes away. Please actually read what I write; I do you the same courtesy. To repeat: if Tokyopop has made a tenative deal with a major broadcaster, it may require them to change the names in the manga to match the executives' preferences for American names in the TV series. This is only a hypothesis, but it is the only logical explanation I can come up with, and no one has suggested anything better. I do actually read what you write, it is just we have a difference of opinion on this topic. Like this part.. I find your "logical explanation" on this to be weak. Major broadcasters are only interested in what they can put on TV to make money. They do not care a thing about comic books, for that matter they do not care about books overall, just TV. In Japan, TV and manga go hand and hand. Not in the US. I find it highly unlikely that in any tenative deal that Tokyopop makes with a major broadcaster, that part of that deal will require them to change the names in the manga just to conform with the changes made in the TV show. In the end, this is Tokyopops doing. They could have avoided this all by coming out with the manga with the Japanese names. So if the TV deal bombs, they can fall back on the money they would be making on the unchanged manga, buecus they keeped the main manga market by doing it this way. Instead of wasting money on two books. One that will not sell( the changed Initial D)and lose part of the manga market and one that will( the unchanged Initial D)and may even get some of the main manga market back. Hence, not making as much money as they could by putting out one unchanged Initial D, and not loseing any of the main manga market. |
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Ramen
 Posts: 346 Location: San Jose |
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Yes, I like my anime an manga uncut and unedited. It still remains to be seen, but TokyoPop did say that there will be an uncut version of the Manga, so this discussion is actually moot now. That being said, I now have something to add here.
Anime and manga as a whole still has not reached mainstream America. It is naive to say that the "market has already decided." I'm sure the market you are talking about are the true anime and manga otaku. If that is the case, I totally agree. However, there have only been a few titles that I could call mainstream hits. Dragonball Z, Pokemon and Sailor Moon are a few I can think of. All of these are edited and cut up to be consumed by the public. If you take these as examples, you COULD say that the market has decided that edited and cut anime is the way to go. My personal belief is that we still really don't know what will be response to uncut anime and manga from the general public. Now, when I am talking about the general public, I am talking about the mass market. Companies like Viz and Dark Horse are successfull in their market, but it is still limited to a niche market. It's fairly obvious that TokyoPop is positioning Inital D to be the biggest thing since Dragonball Z. The want T-shirts and lunch boxes and breakfast cereal, etc. They want to be able to walk down the street, ask some random guy and have him say, "Oh, yeah, I've head of Initial D." They aren't targeting the anime and manga fans, they are targeting the casual observer who doesn't know or doesn't care what is edited and what is not. Why? It's been said before ... it's about the money. I am sure everyone on this board would like to beleive that every average person will be able to appreciate anime and manga in it's uncut and unedited format. I sure would like to believe that. Obviously, the network execs don't think so for some reason. Why? I have no clue, but something told them that editing the show would result in more market share. Again it is about the money. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the choices they made were right, but my point is that the market for Anime in the US is still young and I don't think anyone can definitively say what is going to work and what is not. TokyoPop is doing what they think will make them money. They may be mistaken, but they could be right... Anyway, that's my $0.02. Last edited by Ramen on Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ginsu Camel
 Posts: 4 Location: Philadelphia, PA |
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No. I understand your position, but it's based on false assumptions. Viz and Dark Horse are unquestionably successful within their target audience-the fan community. This is a group of the populace that already goes to comic shops or orders their stuff directly from the publisher. Tokyopop is not content with this. My impression is that they want to see manga become as widespread here is at is in Japan. Failing that, they want the widest audience possible. Viz and Dark Horse have built large (for manga), stable fan bases with their business practices, but they are not trying to aggresively widen the audience like Tokyopop. This is why they are seeking prominent placement for their manga displays in Suncoast Video stores, which have a much larger, more diverse clientele than comic shops. Nor is Suncoast a negligent master; as a member of their Replay club, I saw them run a feature on manga in Replay magazine to mark the start of manga sales at Suncoast. They mentioned titles from many companies in the feature, but only one company actually sells their manga at Suncoast: Tokyopop. Let me be clear: I do not agree with Tokyopop's decision. Furthermore, I believe the market will come down on the side of unedited, un-Westernized manga. But it hasn't happened yet, and they do have the right to try. So long as they provide us with access to an unedited verrsion, let them try, and let them know which you like better by buying the unedited version. No, I do not believe Viz and Dark Horse should abandon their core fanbase and pander to the mainstream, but neither has Tokyopop. They will be providing unedited versions for those who prefer it. Only time will tell which version prevails (and I know which one I'm rooting for) but it is their right to try and I still admire the guts it takes to take that risk in the face of the fan community's wrath.
Well, I respect your opinion, but if you're going to disagree be prepared to refute my points-which you did now, but not previously-or I must assume you either didn't read my post or didn't care. I already explained why I believe it might be required in a contract. TV executives most certainly do care about print media. Otherwise, why would they advertise their shows in magazines and newspapers? Having a preexisting comic is like having a gigantic ad campaign; it establishes that most favored son of the marketing department, the franchise. Franchises need consistency. I won't repeat myself further. They may not have a TV deal at all, but companies don't deliberately shoot themselves in the foot. (Ignore examples like Enron and Worldcom; TP's stock isn't traded on the NYSE anyway.) They wouldn't do it if their numbers didn't tell them it increased the odds of getting it on the air. Targeting it at a pre-teen audience is one of the dumber ideas I've heard, but in the end it might come down to simple economics. Folks, it might be too expensive to not put it on a Burger King glass. |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4469 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Well, I'm just dreading the inevitable "Viz, release Hamtaro uncut and subtitled NOW... or else... or else I'll hold my breath and turn blue and die!" petitions... I've even seen faint rumblings of such a petition on a site that usually does know better when it comes to anime series aimed at extremely, extremely small children that wouldn't care less what changes were made to it even if you showed them an elaborate multimedia presentation on the subject with laser pointers and barcharts. My advice... DON'T contact Viz to express your concerns about Viz not offering customers an alternative, "purist-grade" Hamtaro DVD release in North America, UNLESS you'd commit yourself to buying EVERY single volume. (We have uncut, subtitled versions of much of Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z because there was an extensive cult following for both series years before they were shown on TV here, and we have uncut, subtitled Cardcaptor Sakura because there is enough of a a critical mass of CLAMP fans for it to have been worth Nelvana's while to sublicense the subtitled, intact version out to Pioneer, but all those series are aimed at relatively much older kids than the Pokemons and Digimons and the Hamtaros, which were aimed at a preschool and young elementary school audience even in Japan, and, as such, would probably not sell well enough to justify the alternative releases.)
As for Initial D, I'm definitely in the Byronius camp; when they showed it during the final year of the anime club I used to attend, I found it really goofy, but not goofy in a "so bad it's funny" way, so, after a few episodes, I decided my time would be better spent walking over to the nearby Renaud-Bray bookstore and browsing nude photography bo... er, I mean... French manga. I can't say I think it's a wonderful idea that they're changing names, although I really couldn't care less what they do with the manga. I personally doubt that a whole lot of the "mainstream" market, even those that would watch it on TV, would buy it, but maybe Tokyopop knows something about the market I don't, and there is always the possibility, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, that some outside party requested that they changed the names in the mass-market version of the manga too so that it could tie-in better with the TV edit of the anime. They didn't really change the names in Cardcaptor Sakura (aside from shortening one or two names in normal conversation), but it could just be that Nelvana never requested that they did. Tokyopop does get the "thumbs up" from me for leaving the names of the angels and demons untranslated in Wish (contrary to what had been reported in the Diamond Distribution catalogue), which puts their translation a notch above Tonkam's in French, where the names (of the non-human characters) were translated. |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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I like Viz. I like Rumiko's storys. What I don't like is how long Viz takes to release them. You cannot, in this day and age, release a series that long on 2 episodes per tape and expect it to sell. Furthermore, when a tape comes once every 4 to 6 months, it's no wonder why people buy the DVD's from outside sources.
If they could just speed up the release times, they'd do a lot better. If Initial D comes out in both forms than I can't complain. |
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Ataru
 Posts: 2306 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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Ranma ½ and Masion Ikkoku more or less fell in to that trap (That and Ranma ½ started to kind of boring after the 3rd season and Masion Ikkoku wasn't marketed well enough.) |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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AGAIN, this is not about 'Initial D' specifically (not for me), this is about a statement of policy from TokyoPop. To me, 'Initial D' might be mildly entertaining, but if you think anyone over the age of 8 won't be interested in 'Initial D' I'd point you to the large numbers that NASCAR gets for showing you cars driving in circles. (which I do NOT watch) And no, I would NOT be screaming for an "uncut/unedited" version of Hamataro. And if they sell that to 5 year olds, then that's exactly what they should be doing. But as example, do you think 'Mononoke Hime' should have had the "battle" scenes cut/editted for content, names changed, and aggression curbed, to make it more accessible to a LARGER fan base? Would you WANT 'Ghost in the Shell' or 'Akira' pitched as "the greatest animated film since 'The Lion King'" and cleaned up to have a 'G' rating? Personally, I feel that if they think that renaming all the characters will make the TARGET audience (the SAME target audience that it has in Japan, whatever that is) want to watch, then I'm fine with it. But if they continue to pitch their properties to children, because "only kids watch animation or read comics in the US", then I think TokyoPop is their own worst enemy. And what is the implication of my SN? |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Uh, street racing and NASCAR are two completely different animals. Kids who put $1,500 rims on a $400 car do the whole street racing thing. Rednecks who wear wifebeaters and double-beer-hats watch NASCAR.
Indeed, I would be upset if they cut Akira in any fasion, because Akira can easily fall under the catagory of "art" whereas Initial D cannot. And this "INITIAL D WAS TARGETED FOR OLDER people" stuff is nonsense. It's targeted in Japan at 12 to 14 year olds. Which is the same market TP wants to attract here. The "tweens" as the marketing execs dub them. The problem is the standards for what passes as juvenile entertainment in Japan and the US differ greatly. Dragonball could show wang and panties and boobs in Japan, but they cannot here, where the show is aimed at the same age group. And why does Heero sound like a 37-year old chain smoker? I never understood that. Stupid Ocean Group. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Your opinions of 'Initial D' not withstanding, I would AGAIN direct anyone with this viewpoint to REREAD TokyoPop's letter. May I AGAIN draw emphasis to THIS point:
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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LMAO! |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Once again, I get offended by the narrow-mindedness of some of the posters here. My family watches NASCAR. Guess what? We live in Philadelphia and have lived in Philadelphia for well over my lifetime of 26 years. None of us own a single wifebeater or double-beer-hats. So I'd watch who you are generalizing. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Oof. Sorry. I'm only inclined to say that because EVERY person I know here in Tucson that watches NASCAR is a big redneck. And it was just a joke, besides ;_; |
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ZanLong
Posts: 12 |
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LordByronius wrote:
Uh, street racing and NASCAR are two completely different animals. Kids who put $1,500 rims on a $400 car do the whole street racing thing. Rednecks who wear wifebeaters and double-beer-hats watch NASCAR. What is with this narrow-minded bull. I am a F1 and NASCAR fan. I am offended by this. LordByronius wrote: I'm only inclined to say that because EVERY person I know here in Tucson that watches NASCAR is a big redneck. That is EVERY person you know in Tucson, not the WORLD!!! LordByronius wrote: And it was just a joke, besides ;_; Yeah, right... |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Can the insults. |
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