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NEWS: Indonesian Child Dies After Reportedly Imitating Anime


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MrVince



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Abdallah wrote:
MrVince wrote:
I would go on to argue he is pushing the same agenda as to why most anime is heavily regulated, if not banned, in most of the Islamic world.


Says who?


Says the few news articles out there that do talk about this. I'll assume you live in Qatar because it says so in your "location" field. You then would know then that people who live in most countries OTHER than Qatar and the U.A.E. have to order anime from either Qatar and the U.A.E. Heck, even Pokemon and Yugioh (both anime and games) are banned in Saudi Arabia.

Abdallah wrote:
The huge anime collection of anime fans in the islamic world, or the airing of anime (mostly unedited) here since the 80s?

You must be replying to someone else's comments because nowhere did I say there aren't any anime fans in the Islamic world. As for the airing of anime "here", which again I'm assuming is Qatar, my understanding is that it's a pretty open market in your country of location.

As to how this plays with the topic, I will say that I find it especially troubling that many here will comment on American censorship (either by distributor, government, or network) or the seeking of censorship in America yet will rarely comment on that censorship in other countries. It's a sad double standard.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Flame-X wrote:
HAHAHA!!! take that narutard!


There is a sticky at the top of this forum that has some new rules you need to read. This sort of comment has no place in our community. You will receive a 48-hour ban.
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dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Even if you assume that everything about this story is true, at the end of the day this is still an accident, and accidents happen even to the most careful people. I for one appreciate that its actually a big deal when a kid thousands of miles away dies. For a great deal of human history child fatality was commonplace.

I'm one of those people that at times may seem sickeningly left with my hatred of censorship and anti-government sentiments, but even I have to acknowledge from my own experience that my hobbies do directly affect me. After all, the same thing happens when you consume food; media is just another consumable thing. Whether or not it is significant however, I don't keep up to date on the literature or anything, but I've never read anything about video games or movies psychologically mutilating people. I read a book on it once, but the whole premise was a grotesque oversimplification of what should have been an exhaustive breakdown of countless psychological factors. When people here give anecdotes, and you think back to your childhood, and look at children now, the evidence is all around you that despite the fact that there are millions of children in the world leading more or less uneventful lives. And all it takes to throw us into red alert are these wild cards that are tragedies.

I'm all for continuing to refine society's measures to protect people, children no less, but for all the roaring controversy basically anything popular generates I can't help but feel indignant that a scientific attitude is lacking.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:29 pm Reply with quote
AnimeLover86 wrote:
cartoons shouldn't be blamed for the actions of children, but rather the parents! i parent should be able to tell their child what is real and what isn't. they should also be watching their kids, what exactly were this kid's parents doing while he strangled himself?

A parent can't be expected to be watching their kids 24/7. That's just impossible. And you should know that kids don't generally listen to their parents at that age; they just want what they want. Parents have their own lives and have as much needs as their kids do (though certainly not in the same way), so of course they won't just sit around and watch their kids whenever they're not working. Also, I don't think a parent should be blamed for their child's choice unless they drilled it into their head that hanging themselves is cool or whatever. Like I said, no one in this kind of situation should have to take the blame.
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KyuuA4



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 1361
Location: America, where anime and manga can be made
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:34 pm Reply with quote
Evolution still works! Twisted Evil

Anyways, had this same thing happen in the US (actually it has) it'd get more attention. I remember kids screwing up after Beavis and Butthead -- or -- more kids copying that one movie where characters were lying on the centerstrip of a road (not smart to copy).

Aromatic Grass wrote:
A parent can't be expected to be watching their kids 24/7.


Even so - the notion of not copying anything from TV should at least been placed into the kid's head -- to reduce the risk of this kind of incident.
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Meccanica



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Brookline, MA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:34 pm Reply with quote
You know, somehow the argument that 'naruto/anime is not at fault' because 'parents should be responsible for what their children watch' seems like an admission that naruto and this incident are actually related. I agree with both of those statements, but putting them in close proximity like that doesn't sit quite right with me.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:41 pm Reply with quote
KyuuA4 wrote:
Aromatic Grass wrote:
A parent can't be expected to be watching their kids 24/7.

Even so - the notion of not copying anything from TV should at least been placed into the kid's head -- to reduce the risk of this kind of incident.


See:
Aromatic Grass wrote:
And you should know that kids don't generally listen to their parents at that age; they just want [to do] what they want [to do].

I've seen kids do it, even if their parents tell them not to.
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Pichu



Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
My guess is, he saw Naruto getting hung by his belt from a tree, or something. Maybe he was saying something "cool" while he was struggling to get out, so the boy wanted to replicate the situation. When he did so, he probably affixed one end of the "belt" to something to simulate the tree. He slipped and either broke his neck or strangled himself because he couldn't regain his footing. Or it is a problem of the asphyxiation game like bonbonsrus said. Which is also becoming a problem in the US by the way.

Only problem with that theory is the Naruto never gets strangled. I remember Tayuya, Sakura, Sasuke getting strangled. But not Naruto... And I don't think they even have belts in Naruto! O.o;; I seriously don't remember any. But the theory that he was depressed about schoo and killed himself after watching Narutio is plausible. This is really tragic indeed.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:30 pm Reply with quote
Something new to spice up the night I see. I am amazed at the posters who are saying that Naruto is a kids show. If you were to actually look at the content that the show really contains, it is not a little kids' show, hence why we probably see it on Adult Swim in the United States.

This lawyer sounds like Jack Thompson trying to crack down on anime, and I'm not surprised he would name Naruto when it comes to the events that happened and what he's trying to push, since it is reported that the anime was what the child was watching. I have to ask the same question as everybody else who has asked already: How old was the child? That is a factor, as well as where were the parents. I am one of those children whose parents went to great lengths to know that their child knew the difference between reality and fiction, and could also use his discretion when it came to TV.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:44 pm Reply with quote
fighterholic wrote:
Something new to spice up the night I see. I am amazed at the posters who are saying that Naruto is a kids show. If you were to actually look at the content that the show really contains, it is not a little kids' show, hence why we probably see it on Adult Swim in the United States.


Actually, it is a children's shonen series, thus its appropriate airing on TOONAMI, not Adult Swim, in the United States. Frankly, it bewilders me why Bleach airs on AS.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:47 pm Reply with quote
fighterholic wrote:
it is not a little kids' show, hence why we probably see it on Adult Swim in the United States.


Naruto airs usually around 9-10pm, outside of Adult Swim.
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BleuVII



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 672
Location: Tokorozawa, Japan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
fightncomet wrote:
Many people try to blame so much on Movies, TV, Books, etc for people and children doing things that are dangerous. But isn't it really more a problem of raising your children and teaching them to use good judgment? This doesn't mean that censorship or banning books is the answer, either. It means that you should teach your kids not to imitate actions you see in fictional shows or movies.
Let me give you a big "heck yeah!" for these words of wisdom.

When I was a kid, I grew up surrounded by firearms. Guns. Big, shiny, deadly weapons. With ammunition that I could easily get, load the weapons, and accidentally kill myself. Oddly, I'm still here. Want to know why?

Instead of making a big deal about staying away from the guns without explaining why (thus creating an irresistible mystery) my parents sat me down and explained everything to me about firearms, including the fact that they could render me dead. I never played with a gun in my whole life and still haven't. I never point them at others, I always treat them as if they are loaded, etc. Knowledge not mystery saves kids lives.

Years ago I saw a documentary on TV. Part of it was video from an experiment about different ways of raising children. Two kids were put into a room with a closet that had a gun in it on the top shelf. (Unloaded of course.) One child had been raised with a strict "never touch guns" approach and the other had been raised with a "here's how to safely handle guns but remember that they aren't toys" approach.

Guess which kid, with his mother watching the hidden camera feed, went and got a step ladder, got the gun, and started playing with it while the other sat playing with actual toys. Can you guess?

Now, this news story sounds more like a stupid accident than anything else. (I'm actually having trouble figuring out what part of Naruto could lead to self-strangulation.) But the fact is accidents are a hell of a lot less likely to happen when parents educate their children about the realities of life and death. If you know doing something might kill you, you're a lot less likely to do it. (And don't give me the "kids don't understand" bull. If they really didn't understand, every child under a certain age would try to fly, stop cars with their bear hands, etc. like characters in fictional stories.)

Also, I really hate politicians with their "this isn't necessary and look, someone died because of it!" mentality. A lot of kids die due to the stress of the public and private education system, probably a lot more than from comics, so why haven't you hypocrites shut down the schools? How many people die in traffic accidents, you don't see anyone outlawing cars. The real problem is that comics and other imaginative works get children to THINK and that scares politicians. People who think change the world.

The real story here is a child is dead because of bad luck or their own stupidity and a self-serving politican is trying to use that death to further his own agenda. It's sad and stupid and completely business as usual. Video games get it in the neck here most of the time.


I only read the first page of this discussion, but well put.

Also, for everyone who commented on government double standards, I agree. I lived in South Korea for a year, and Naruto was wildly popular... and often blamed for schoolyard violence. Nobody, however, was willing to look at the rampant amount of domestic abuse that police officers did nothing about. Let's see, what's more likely to cause a kid to hit another:
1) He saw an animated character hit someone else with a Rasengan
2) He saw his father punch his mother in the mouth because he didn't like her cooking.
?
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:59 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Actually, it is a children's shonen series, thus its appropriate airing on TOONAMI, not Adult Swim, in the United States. Frankly, it bewilders me why Bleach airs on AS.

Yes, I just found this out myself in the anime forum. But I don't think it changes the fact that Bleach, Naruto and One Piece are in Shonen Jump, which is targeted at teens in Japan. They may add water to the anime, but there still should be some parental guidance when it comes to letting younger people watch it, if they're not old enough to know.
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Meccanica



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Brookline, MA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:12 pm Reply with quote
@fighterholic: so far, this guy falls way short of Jack Thompson's lunacy. Maybe he's just as bad, I don't know... but I think it's unlikely. The man's pretty unstable.
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suna_suna



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 550
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:36 pm Reply with quote
the thing that Naruto may have contributed to this tragedy is the final drive that caused the suicide. i forget who mentioned the "true story", but if he was bullied, watched a more depressing episode of Naruto, and then took his own life, then Naruto is circumstantialy guilty.

EDIT: it was kokuryu at the bottom of page 4
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