Forum - View topicNEWS: 3 Japanese Men Arrested, Charged with Uploading Anime
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Secondly I don't know why people keep saying that if a foreign production isn't licensed in whatever country outside of the originating country, it is somehow not licensed at all. The Japanese copyright licence is just as valid and binding outside of Japan as in, so thinking that because someone in the US hasn't licensed it for broadcast, or distribution makes it fair game to be stolen and viewed for free, is very wrong, no mistake. If a production isn't ever licensed to be distributed outside of Japan that means it wasn't meant to be and no one outside of Japan is suppose to see it. Therefore no one has the right to steal it to circumvent that restriction, but you can buy the same raw DVD from the same Japanese distributor as the Japanese do and pay the shipping costs too, that is allowed, no problem. Finally viewing a recording of a TV show that was paid for by the broadcaster has been allowed since the early days of betamax, and VHS, and showing it to one or two friends is not considered as big a problem as showing it to 10, 20, or 30,000, or more a month that a fansub allows, so comparing the two as equal is like saying a blueberry and a water mellon are the same thing not taking into account the size of each, and you're still ignoring rentals as a way of sampling a title to see if it would be worth buying. It's pointless to try something foreign before you buy it, if you are never going to be allowed to buy it in your country in the first place. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Mohawk, could you just please try once to stop thinking inside your own frame of reference. Why should I agree to those restrictions? Can you tell me why I should agree to them even when they don't benefit anyone (including the Japanese)?
You need to do something better than these "it's just wrong" statements. That's tantamount to parents saying "because I said so" and that's axiomatic. You can never convince someone who doesn't have those axioms. You have to give us more reasons than simply telling us over and over it's wrong because you say so. Tell me why it's wrong to watch something that's unlicensed to "circumvent the restriction of intended country." There is no way for you to encourage other people to accept your way of thinking when all you provide is these "it's wrong because it just is" statements. Not to mention, us paying shipping for a product in a language we don't know would be useless to us. So you think it's right to pay money for ship a disc overseas (an inordinately inefficient use of resources I might add, since copying a file over networks isn't of nearly the same costs) and circumvent intended country, but it's wrong when we copy a file? I'm not even sure what your basis is anymore. Either it's a restriction or it isn't. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Given that you quoted the answer to your question right above your little tirade, I'm at a loss as to how you missed it. Anyway, here it is again:
That's three answers to your question, in fact. Your lack of reading comprehension is in no way my responsibility.
In case the "location" listed to the left of this message and the fact that I'm writing standard English rather than American dialect weren't enough of a clue, I'm not in the USA.
How is sharing a show with two people different from sharing it with hundreds of millions of people? I would have thought that was patently obvious.
That's rather the point isn't it? They don't only distribute to their friends - they distribute to absolutely everybody without discrimination.
Because the Japanese (who could be buying the show on DVD) are just as able to download the show as you are in America where it isn't available. That is in no way analogous to having a Japanese person talk you through the show in person.
There is a difference between things that people need to live and things they merely happen to enjoy. In the case of the former, it makes sense to put things in terms of "reasonable" prices. In the case of the latter, however, "reasonable" is purely subjective - it's what somebody is willing to pay for something. A thousand dollars is a "reasonable" price for a painting if you happen to have that sort of money lying around and you value the painting that highly. Ten dollars is an "unreasonable" price for the very same painting if you don't have any money and / or you don't like the painting. --- Andromeda - I think your ideas are a pretty good reflection of the way things are likely to go (though you seem not to have realised that it isn't often the anime studio that makes money off the merchandise - it's more often the merchandiser who pays the studio a pittance to make the show in the first place). The problem is that what you're talking about leads to shows aimed solely at shifting product and not at creating a piece of art. The shows become 25 minute merchandise commercials aimed either at children or at the existing collector market. That might not be the death of the anime industry but it is the death of that part of the anime industry that's actually worth protecting. --- Xanas - If you had incontestable evidence that downloading hurt the industry and that there was an effective way to prevent it (that didn't involve mass incarceration, spy cameras in your bedroom or Federal agencies hunting teenage internet users through the streets with high powered rifles) would you be willing to change your mind? Or would you still hold the same fundamental outlook as a result of your libertarian beliefs? If it's the latter, then you're being no less hidebound by ideology and personal morality than Mohawk or CCSYueh or myself. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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In part, I will agree with you. I'm an ideologue to the core on this issue. Try as I might, the biggest compromise I would agree with is the media tax. I can't invision the situation you are posing in your primary question. (Let me be clear, you are overstating my position a bit when you talk about high powered rifles, I don't think that would be involved, and I think the surveillance would be internet based not cameras in bedrooms) For one, I don't see how the prevention could be done without significant increases in control & surveillance. Secondly, I don't believe that the industry could be harmed to the extent art would not be possible even if downloading were to continue at current levels. I honestly cannot see how your vision or that of Mohawk or CCSYueh, if enforced by government could lead to anything other than horrifying levels of control and oversight. I try to imagine how the prevention could be done in a fair manner so that individuals are not fined ridiculously to be "examples" and other such things. On the other hand, if I believed that media could not function in a society without copyright to the degree it exists now, I certainly wouldn't like that. But, I keep trying to think of how that works and I can't. I don't believe all artists or authors or actors, etc. are in it entirely for the money. There is no way I can see art or entertainment vanishing unless humans are disinterested in it. It might not be as good as what we have now, but I can't see how it could ever not exist. It's difficult for me to imagine it really being worse though, with the extent to which people would be able to further collaborate and involve themselves with less restrictions. I look at what fansub groups are willing to do for a hobby, or those who have made mods for popular games. I look at Linux, etc. My ideology has left me to see a better world with less restrictions, and a worse one if we increase them. I just don't see how we can increase them and then stop. I only see problems down the road if we do that. If I knew things would be worse, I guess I'd be for leaving things as they are, or for.. as I said, adding a media tax of some kind. I'd be a liar to say I don't want to convince people despite not being able to provide anything not attached to my own axioms, but I'd be an idiot to say that I expect you or CCSYueh or Mohawk to be completely convinced to change to my reasoning overnight. I find that axioms are something that people change only when they find their own viewpoint to be completely untenable. At one time I didn't believe the way I do now, and at some point I couldn't logically see how society could continue to function in that manner for the long run. I'm sure there are others who have gone in that opposite direction too. I try to at least be fair and point out when I think we are so axiomatic as to not even be useful to those guys in the middle. It happens with me a great deal, I can't deny that. |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Thanks for the detailed and honest answer Xanas.
I have no objection to a media tax in principle but (a) nothing I've seen thus far leads me to believe it's workable and (b) I can't help but feel that there would be no need for a solution if people weren't insisting on breaking the existing laws for no better reason than personal gratification.
No, nor can I at this point in time - hence the daft hypothetical.
Well, there'd still be the occasional experimental short coming out of Japan's art schools but otherwise I can't see anime art prospering under the conditions discussed above unless the Japanese government is willing to massively subsidise the industry in the way that France subsidises its film industry. But, unlike the French, I have trouble imagining the Japanese government shelling out billions of yen without being able to veto content it found objectionable.
Well...how about licensing p2p and other download / streaming sites? If it's an unlicensed site ISPs wouldn't allow you to visit it (just as British ISPs block bulletin boards that carry child porn). If it's a licensed site, the site owners would be legally liable for the content distributed on their site and they'd have to be responsible for self-policing or face the consequences. What about legislating to block the internet account of anybody found to be illegally downloading protected material - software designed to track p2p activity reports the downloader to his or her ISP and they automatically recieve a 6 month ban (applicable across all ISPs) or maybe a year for a second offence? It's no different to the speed cameras we have here in Britain that take a photograph of every car that passes over the speed limit, resulting in an automatic fine / points on the driving license (and a ban when the points go over a certain limit). Yes, the p2p networks would rapidly develop to outwit the software but since you'd never know when the software might temporarily catch up, you'd be forever risking that ban. And which of us wants to be banned from having an internet account for six months? And since the ban would apply to the account holder, parents might be a little more interested in what junior's up to all of a sudden.
That's a bit disingenuous given that I've repeatedly said I support reform and curtailment of copyright law - I just don't support abolition. Personally, I'd favour something like rights for life for individuals (authors, song writers, artists) and 25 years for corporations (studios, record labels etc.).
They aren't but if their art requires their full-time attention they do have to make money in order to live. You can play in a band in your spare time but you can't make a professional looking 26 episode anime series in your spare time.
I agree entirely. It's not art as a whole that will vanish - it's certain sorts of art that require large budgets (vast in the case of Hollywood movies) and a reasonably reliable return.
Fansubbers (and AMV fans) aren't making anime - they're just playing around with it. Modders aren't creating games - they're just building on the multi-million dollar efforts of the corporations that do. I'm not saying they don 't have talent or dedication but they are only modifying the art of others. Maybe one day, we'll have software so advanced and so user friendly that it will allow lone individuals or small groups to create professional anime or games on a budget of nothing. But we're not there yet...and what company's going to develop that software since nobody will be willing to pay for it... 
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I'm not intentionally slighting you, I don't recall you being so specific about it previously and I tend to reply generally since you didn't reference yourself alone previously. I know that CCSYueh, for example, wants copyrights to last forever. Like "your side" there are a variety of differences in areas between me and Fallout2man and others. I plead ignorance here, not that I should be ignorant about it. To be clear I also don't support full "abolition" of copyright. I just think it should cover only commercial reproduction and distribution. I'm no fan of bootlegs.
That's not the only possibility, the other possibility is a type of wireless sub-network that links to the internet would be created in order to circumvent some of the tracking abilities. I have problems with the fact that we're going to routinely allow encryption to be hacked for the purposes of protecting media. I also have to say I absolutely hate the way you have speed cameras in Britain... And it's not only that, I spoke of "control" here. There is control that isn't presently available to companies now that people like yourself seem to believe that artists/etc. should have that go beyond pricing demands. I simply don't follow the whole "intellectual property" ideology so I can't respect those notions. If the industry decides that they should be paid not by the download or episode, but by the viewing, some people think they should be allowed to do that without giving any alternatives. Sure, one can say "well, the market would work this out because people wouldn't buy this media" but since the media industry already collaborates who is to say that for their own benefit they wouldn't all do the same things. I simply don't see the level of competition in entertainment as other industries. They tend to band together a lot for "protection." Also I honestly do believe that the ability to create derivative works is important, and I don't think copyright should be 25 years. I don't know if the article which explained this thoroughly was posted here, but basic logic would dictate that as more people are capable of being involved in the creative process, copyright terms should be made shorter. Yet your 25 years is significantly longer than the original 14. I also see no desire of the companies to lower it to your 25, what makes you believe that if they were given more control they would want to lower it? One other thing. I don't see this huge failure looming overhead at this time. I'm not convinced it will happen, even if I'd imagine it might create needed reform. I do see some companies having trouble but as for us, we are probably headed into a general recession right now and it's really not a surprise that entertainment is something that's going to get hit harder. There has been mass downloading going on for the last 5 years now, I don't know that it really has caused the massive problems some are referring to. Actors are still making millions and the writers guild is even demanding more money from the TV industry than before. I suppose it may only be anime that is in trouble at this point but I can only say I'm doing the best I can regarding that. If anyone thinks my arguments on this forum are intended to make people download instead of buying they've got the wrong idea. I'm only defending myself and others who are downloading and buying, the ones who are out there and take without giving anything back (when they have the ability) I don't care for more than anyone else here. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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The largest number you came up with was 15% of Americans as downloaders which is still a miniority. 85% of Americans don't download. I'm sure a larger number of people speed every day & we still have laws against it & people get busted for it everyday. When that cop shows up on the road is when everyone goes the speed limit. Every time there's a clampdown on downloaders somewhere one sees people posting here wondering how it's going to impact their downloading-"Oh my, I have to stop?" The biggest excuse right now seems to be no one's policing the henhouse. If the laws were actually enforced, you'd lose those "well, if no one's looking, I'll do it" people. There will always be a hardcore group that will continue to do what they're doing-legal or not.
You obviously are in the school of "They're only hurting themselves. Spend a few days talking to the families of long-time users & see how they're hurting no one but themselves. Sadly, it's exactly like that commercial they ran a couple yrs ago "I'm going to be a fireman when I grow up. I'm going to be a doctor" No one ever said "I want to bea drug addict when I grow up" Most of them can't see they have a problem even when they can't hold a job, their family's kicked them out & they're shoplifting stuff to sell to pay for their drugs if they aren't paying with their bodies. Beautiful life, right? Not hurting anyone, right? I'm not doing any good, right? Yeah, it's an uphill struggle. A good number just repeat thru, but you get that one or 2 per month who clean themselves up, get their first solid job in yrs, get their lives together. I had to test a gal for one of the officers & all the woman did was talk about how wonderful it is being clean the last 90 days after 10 yrs of being an addict & how she doesn't know how she can make it up to her teenage son who has had to cope with om's addiction. And it's not just drugs. My teen's best friend is dealing with a mother who is seriously addicted ot Indian casinos. Yes, the rent has gone more than once. The girl is terrified they'll evicted sometime. The girl lost her internet connection because mom couldn't pay the bill. And sadly it is a uphill battle because the person needing to change has to want to change. That's why I say maybe after some of these downloaders get into the real world & lose a job or 2 to being laid off, maybe they'll feel a tinge of guilt over downloading & maybe not. Maybe if they have a co-worker who slacks off all the time so they have to work twice as hard, they'll see the reality of it. Maybe if you have a co-worker who takes the glory for work you've done you'll see how it feels to have your work stolen from you.
Look at Haruhi-tons of downloads which isn't translating into sales. You mean all those wonderfull downloaders aren't buying now it's licensed? You mean they watched it for free, & have moved on to the next thing they can watch for free? Impossible! I live in California. Certain products are available here. Certain products are not. If I want an Arizona super special cookie only available in Arizona, I either drive there to get it, pay to ship it, or get someone to buy it for be when they're over there. I don't break into the warehouse & steal a bunch of it so I'll be stocked for the next month or 3. Certain shows are available in my area. Certain shows aren't. Again, I have certain options of how to deal with this. Anime isn't a domestic product. Americans have no right to anime. If there weren't people illegally uploading the product & sharing it with a few thousand opeople they will never, ever meet, you wouldn't be able to download it. At best, you're in the 2nd-hand situation-the receiver of stolen goods. Every dvd I've seen states one isn't allowed to copy the product without the WRITTEN permission of the owner. I highly doubt the fansub group you're downloading from has said written permission from Gonzo, Studio Deen, etc. It's illegal. The dif between your buddy recording it off tv & a fansubber's thoudands of downloads? Most stores expect to lose a certain percent of product to shoplifting-less than 10%, I'm sure. If the shoplifting amount rises too far, they take action-hire security, whatever. A friend making a copy for a friend falls into the acceptable level, particularly because unless your friend is watching it & cleaning out the commercials, you do still have exposure to those commercials on his copy. If he watched a show he wouldn't have watched to cut the commerciasl, then they gained an extra viewer. There is no benefit whatsoever to the anime companies for people to watch the entire show for free before buying it. Fansubbers have moved from a managable area-vhs copies that went from hand to hand thru a few hundred fans before wearing out to files on the internet that live forever even after the show has been licensed. My teen knows lots of friends who download licensed anime. (Gravitation) Hell, one downloads movies the week they hit the movie theaters in the name of saving the cost of a movie ticket. It has nothing to do with "previewing"
I know damn well what it is to do without. Just because I see anime as art to be valued & most downloaders see it as a program with no value, thus they aren't harming anyone why do you think I don't understand what you're saying. I respectfully disagree that anime has no value. Joshua-Sensei said the cat he hit didn't matter-it did to someone unless it was feral & one can't really prove that now. If that cat was feral, most likely somewhere up the proad there were irresponsible owners who didn't get their cat fixed & allowed it to breed too many babies or they left their pet behind becauise they couldn't keep it which is wrong, sorry. My late husband used ot like to go to the pound & look at the animals because he wanted a dog & we couldn't have one. I hated it because all I saw was sadness-animals who didn't understand what happened to their master & why they were in cages. It bothered me-it didn't bother my husband. We had different perspectives. As it stands, it seems almost every title that's heavily downloaded is a poor risk for licensing because of the downloaders who will never buy anything. I see pewople who whine they have to watch an entire show because it might go south somewhere near the end-so what? I've read books that went south-I wasn't able to take the book back & complain. Haven't seen too many theaters willing to refund one's money after one's seen the entire movie. It's not apples & oranges. You simply see it that way. Someone made that anime. The people who made it haven't put it on the net for you to download, someone else has without their permission. That makes it stolen property because of the way in which anime/entertainment is consumed-by viewing it & often once viewed it ceases to have value to some who have no interest in re-watching (& don't say you've never seen the downloader who says they download because they don't want to buy a dvd for something they only want to watch once. One wears clothes. One eats food. One watches and listens to entertainment. It's all consuming. If I like a picture in a museum, I buy a reproduction & the owner of the product is paid for it. How do you pay the owner of that anime when you download a copy from a fansub group? |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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I realise that - I just wanted to set the record straight.
That's possible and I don't expect there is a way to halt downloading completely - my point is that it only needs to be complex / expensive / time consuming / risky enough for the average person not to bother with it. Those loser fanboys who'd keel over in a dead faint or cry tears of impotent fury if they didn't get the latest late night moe show within 12 minutes of it airing in Tokyo will find a way but there aren't too many of those people and the industry can afford to carry their dead weight.
It'll be hacked anyway. What do you think the NSA does all day?
They already have that right (video or DVD rental, pay-per-view services, cinemas...). If they offer a buy-to-own option it's because they think they'll make more money that way but they're not under any obligation and never have been. If you'd gone to see Casablanca at the cinema when it originally came out, would you be complaining that you'd have to pay again the next time you decided to see it?
If you're talking about patents or technology in general then I can see your point but with art? Why?
I'm not sure the original length is relevant. Things change. Anyway, more people may be involved in the creative process but the investment in that process is also often far larger (in relative terms) and those investors want returns or they won't invest and the stuff won't get made. And whilst that 25 years may seem a long time to you, it's a hell of a slap in the face if you happen to run Disney and you stand to lose the exclusive use of the rodent. Seems like a reasonable compromise figure to me.
Who's talking about giving them more control? It's not the corporations I'd want implementing the measures suggested - it's federal law enforcement. And whether the corporations like shorter terms (which they wouldn't, naturally) shouldn't matter - it's up to your government to decide the law, not your corporations. Granted in the US it can be difficult to tell where the corporations end and the politicians they fund into office begin...but that's a different issue for a different debate.
I've never thought that. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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The NSA theoretically does this for "national security" and "media security" is just a bit lower on the totem pole than that.. but I don't know that I agree with everything that the NSA does either. I've not completely decided on that.
Derivation isn't any less common in art. Disney did it, others should be able to do the same with their work. One could claim that derivation is "less useful" with art, but I'd be inclined to disagree, I've been a big fan of mods and sometimes peoples ideas on building off someone elses narrative. I'm not really a fanfic guy myself (though other people are, but I've been a big fan of AMVs and things like that in the past. I think those things should be allowed for without having to be ignored. Also, I think things like were pointed out in the anime forum (the fact they couldn't use a Beatles song even on the Japanese language track) are a real shame. There are other similar situations that would be easy to think of like that. I'd love to be able to legally use other game music or art assets in non-commercial projects that aren't designed to compete with the original. Reinventing the wheel constantly on basic things like models/etc. is really a waste of time from my perspective. My thinking is mainly from a games perspective because it's the only creative thing I've ever been involved in or cared to work on personally (I'm not an artist, but I can script and program a bit). I do think though as you referenced in a prior post that we could possibly see a great deal more involvement from regular people in art in the future. But due to time constraints they are likely to have the desire to use some assets from others, and I think most of the licensing fees, etc. are structured to think only of the big businesses.
I hope you don't mind me including things like that to speak to the "everyone else" group. The problem in the past is if I didn't constantly include words like that someone later would end up just taking everything I said totally out of context. I remember some who would say I was making the argument that people shouldn't buy DVDs just because I think fansubs are ok in certain contexts. I know that isn't you, I include it to reduce secondary arguments.
Sadly, here it's very connected. If I were just thinking about the government and I thought they were a "pure" entity without a lot of corporate lobbying and campaign money I would probably be willing to accept some other paths. I am not going to say I would prefer them, I would not, but I would at least be able to respect them in the way I can respect speed limits (even though I don't always follow those either  )
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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The seed of my dislike of fansubs is the fact that it's conception starts with and illegal act of unathorised recording either by DVCam, or DVD ripe, and then after adding the subtitles it is then allowed to be given to the entire internet to be downloaded by anyone and everyone who will do so, and it is that act that screams foul play from the people who worked long and low paid hours to create that programme. If some how the process of making a fansub was ligitimiised so that those same people got their reward for creating that same programme by receiving a payment for every time it was downloaded, I'd probably download them myself. But as long as that process starts with illegal theft, I will not go near them as to me that is handling stolen property and being an accessory to the crime. My conscience will not allow that. Do you think the film and TV writers have a valid grievance for their strike? Because it is for just the same, or very similar reason that they are on strike. So go ask them what harm it's doing and you'll get the same answer that the Japanese writers and animators would say if asked as well.
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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It's not that I don't understand your perspective, it's the whole "stealing" "theft" and "unauthorized recording" being absolute concepts that I just don't agree with you on. I understand you believe those things, sadly that means we aren't going to be able to agree
Anyway, I'll agree with you all on the idea that I'd prefer that there be some method for "fansubs" being paid for in some fashion. I wouldn't spend more money on anime if this happened (I'd pay for the subscription and probably buy one less dvd or so to make up for the cost) but I would do that simply because I think a digital system is beneficial to most people in the long run. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Drug dealers are your friend as long as you have money. Same goes for people selling stuff out of the back of a van on the side of a road.
Onegai Teacher's been licensed for some time. The thin pak's pretty recent. You've been waiting yrs or you downloaded licensed product. I think it's been licensed at least as long as Gravitation. You don't want to start this argument with me. I don't download. Shall I start listing all the titles I've bought sight unseen & am happy with? I have about 2000 anime dvds. Don't go there. Obviously I'm a hell of a lot better than you at judging what I like based on a trailer. I also subscribed to Newtype from day 1 so I often knew what titles I wanted long before they were licensed like GetBackers which I saw in a 2-page spread something like a yr or 2 before ADV licensed it. No, I'm not rich. I spend the money others blow on alcohol & other vices on anime. But I've bought Bandai Visual titles sight unseen. Already pre-ordered 4 volumes of Haruka. Pre-ordered both volimes of Demon Prince Enma. Preordered Super Robot Wars.
Took long enough to get licensed. Can you say the fansub situation didn't KEEP it from getting licensed? As someone who was buying heavily from Geneon, I do believe downloaders played a big part in Geneon going bye bye & thus you & your buddies are to blame for my unfinished Kyo Kara Maoh, Story of Saiunkoku, & Shonen Onmyoji & the probability I won't see Mononoke licensed. Yes, you hurt me.
If you aren't willing to pay the price, you aren't willing to pay the price. I remember a Don McLean song with the tag line "The more you pay, the more it's worth" At any auction most people have a ceiling they won't go over. The item goes to the person who is willing to pay the most. Anime isn't overpriced, but if you aren't willing to spend the money for it, it is. It's like the cost of a Ford vs a Mercedes. If you aren't prepared to pay Mercedes prices, you're winding up with the Ford. I've seen dolls at con for obscene amounts of money. I wouldn't pay $300 for a statue of Han Solo, but someone obviously is. I did pay $100 for a Gemini Saga doll, though it is really 2 dolls and I paid about $80 for Pisces Aphrodite. Someone else wouldn't. The DJ on the morning show I listen to was talking how he's gotten into collecting microphones-bids for them on E-Bay. Mircorphones? Insane to me, but not to him. My spouse was a huge swap meet fan-loved to brag how little he could get stuff for, but then he'd be careless & the item would break & it was-I only paid X for it" But it costs XXX to buy a new replacement! Take some care. But the original cost was little so the item had little value. The more you pay, the more it's worth. Unless you want to get into the whole McArthur Park cake argument. |
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tygerchickchibi
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Er, I just would like to point out, that even some Japanese DVDs come with English subtitles. So I suppose if an extreme fan wanted an authentic DVD, he/she'd get that. Not that I'm saying it's more likely, it's just possible. But personally, I could wait for US release, considering I get both english/japanese, and I can always turn the subs off. ^^; Random useless info, but as CCSYueh said, some people don't see price, they just get something that they want and are willing to pay for it. I think I know one anime I want to see but hasn't been licensed. I'm kind of playing the waiting game for now. It's not going to kill me, I do have other things to do with my time. o.o but I think the topic has gone a little off, has it not? >.>; I wonder what's the penalty. I don't think jail time would be necessary, just a heavy fine. |
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Joshua-Sensei
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Bad example since fansubbers sub and release for free.. bu nice try.
I was waiting years..
That's nice unfortunately I have to pay for school and car insurance rent, and food... all on a measly paycheck of 200.00 every two weeks I don't have the luxury of buying over 2000 anime dvds... So happy for you that you can afford it, maybe put your self in my shoes and think what you would do if you couldn't... I have subscribed to Newtype as well doesn't mean that I can judge the anime by the little blurbs in there. You know what you are better than me at deciding what you want from a trailer.. so good job you're better than me.. happy? But I've bought Bandai Visual titles sight unseen. Already pre-ordered 4 volumes of Haruka. Pre-ordered both volimes of Demon Prince Enma. Preordered Super Robot Wars.
Can you say that it DID? Nope that's what I thought....
You seem like a strong person you'll get over it..... besides other companies will pick those titles up.. you believe that downloading hurt you don't KNOW that it did, you have no aboslute positive info.. so saying I hurt you when you don't evne know is what I and others did hurt Geneon... sorry that's just bull and trying to place blame because you THINK this happened when you don't really even know. Now who is being irrational... You have no idea what made them collapse... sorry try again..
At any auction most people have a ceiling they won't go over. The item goes to the person who is willing to pay the most. Anime isn't overpriced, but if you aren't willing to spend the money for it, it is. It's like the cost of a Ford vs a Mercedes. If you aren't prepared to pay Mercedes prices, you're winding up with the Ford. I've seen dolls at con for obscene amounts of money. I wouldn't pay $300 for a statue of Han Solo, but someone obviously is. I did pay $100 for a Gemini Saga doll, though it is really 2 dolls and I paid about $80 for Pisces Aphrodite. Someone else wouldn't. The DJ on the morning show I listen to was talking how he's gotten into collecting microphones-bids for them on E-Bay. Mircorphones? Insane to me, but not to him. My spouse was a huge swap meet fan-loved to brag how little he could get stuff for, but then he'd be careless & the item would break & it was-I only paid X for it" But it costs XXX to buy a new replacement! Take some care. But the original cost was little so the item had little value. The more you pay, the more it's worth. Unless you want to get into the whole McArthur Park cake argument.[/quote] Not true.. my downloaded data of He is my master and Azurite baby are worth more to me than my purchaced Escaflowne or my purchaced Witchblade. Honestly I don't even know why I try to argue with people who try to place blame when they don't even know if that is what caused something.. or refuse to place themselves in someone else's shoes... I'm done with this... honestly I could not have gotten into a more pointless debate.. you keep on doing what you do and I'll keep downloading my anime, and nothing you say will change that because regardless of what you say I don't think it is wrong... illegal yes, wrong NO.. and just because you believe it is does not make it so.... so have a nice day... |
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Xanas
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What is a "heavy fine"? You know the current fines the RIAA/etc. is asking for are like 5000, that sounds pretty heavy to me. If you fight them then due to the laws you'll probably get fined a few hundred thousand. That isn't stopping many people though because litigation is expensive. If you think the government should be the ones doing this, it's still going to have to go through the courts and is going to slow the overall process with a bunch of regular people. I imagine we might have tons and tons of juries nationwide. If you increase the fine from 5000 and increase enforcement you will force encryption and obfuscated protocols. At best you will reduce much internet sharing, and bootlegging will increase. There is always going to be a black market with any product where the normal market has restrictions or too high a price for many people. Would this increase in enforcement cause the corporations to give up on DRM? More than likely no. They will increase that, and they will keep pushing (they already are) the government to mandate inclusion of hardware-based decryption. Once they have this DRM and this enforcement (they will get both) they will certainly choose to use it in the most equitable and customer-friendly manner. |
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