Forum - View topicNEWS: 3 Japanese Men Arrested, Charged with Uploading Anime
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SharinganEye
 Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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This is another Kovacs vs. Veidt thread.
Morality and reality, and all too much swirling about in an endless cycle of non-winners. |
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Fallout2man
Posts: 274 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I really do wonder how adblock and the like are affecting internet advertising. At first there was some uproar over it but now it seems to have died down. TV ads still sell, but as fewer and fewer people watch TV it'll slowly become less profitable for advertisers. Though the subject in question we're talking about is anime. Ideally I think ad-supported streaming archives like Anime network's online library should be a good step forwards (now if only it'd work -_-.) The big question though is if that can make enough money to be worth it and cover for the recent changes being experienced. The idea of a tax keeps coming up because sometimes it seems that's the only way to give modest satisfaction to every group involved. Since otherwise it's up to each industry to offer it's own alternative and figure out how to make money. Which on one hand wouldn't be so bad but considering the problem being faced, that basically means each company has to figure a way to offer their wairs for free or really cheaply and still make enough money to get buy.
I really wondered about that number so I did some digging on google. All I could find was an old New York Times article which said there was currently some fourty three million subscribers at the time. The article though was written four and a half years ago. So if we just round it up to assume for the new subscribers that puts it at roughly 17% of the population. You could still say that's small but that's one out of every six people (probably more, but I can't find any other stats). The idea also isn't for an anime tax itself it'd be a copyright tax, the best way to do it would be to just tack it on all internet connections, and maybe do a blank media levy like Canada does. No one would have any real creative control, the money would just be divided out based on the amount of traffic a file received. This may not be necessary, but it seems to be where we're most likely headed. You can't expect to stop downloading, with all the time, money and legislation thrown at the issue it'd be stopped by now if it were going to stop, and some markets are seeing big hits right now as trends shift. short of basically leaving each market to fend for itself there really wouldn't be any other option I could think of that'd get money to the artists.
Well you really have to decide what you want to do. This isn't about anime but anything digitally consumable as a whole. Right now the computer has reduced anything that can become a series of ones and zeros to perceived value of nil and this perception is spreading wildly on a global scale. It's impossible to fight, but obviously we don't want to give up our movies, anime, or music, so what else is there to do? |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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This doesn't surprise me. When it comes to exercising the rights of ones license, Sunrise is pretty much the most anal Japanese company. Hell just getting them to let you say the word Gundam in an anime production for parody purposes is next to impossible. Everybody bleeps it out these days because they're afraid Sunrise is going to sue them.
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ilikehotaznz
Posts: 28 |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Define doing in that context please? I don't know exactly what someone is "doing" to someone else when there is something that's unlicensed that they basically couldn't buy (and they couldn't get an R2 dvd unless they knew the language).
I'd asked you this before. What exactly is the difference between me waiting and renting (taking money from anime purchases to do so) for $3.99 each, and me watching something fansubbed and therefore being able to spend more buying the actual DVDs? None of what I've heard indicates that rental is worth more to the companies than purchases (and in many cases renting titles can be difficult because of availability issues). Not to mention there is that whole "waiting" thing that I'm supposed to be doing for some unknown reason that you have always been unable to explain. Rather than answering the question last time, you decided to "sum up" my argument and play the moderator card. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Aww, stop it. You'll make me blush. 
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You aren't being deprived of it (that would suggest you had it and it was taken away) - you're just not being given it.
I have no idea what RFD covers but I imagine "The Hunting Channel" costs very little to make, appeals to an adult demographic advertisers can sell to and, given the continuing love affair between Americans and their guns, has a vast (and stable) potential demographic. None of which applies to anime. If an anime channel was currently viable, why did ADV's cable channel wither away instead of going from strength to strength?
I didn't say "don't watch it" - I gave you a list of four ways you could watch it legally and cheaply.
Welcome to capitalism. This is hardly a new state of affairs. When TVs were expensive luxuries, most people didn't get to watch TV. When radios were expensive luxuries, most people didn't get to listen to the radio. When books were expensive luxuries, only the rich could afford to buy them.
1) I could be wrong but I think I read that the BBC distributes its own shows in the USA. Hence no licensing fee. 2) Dr. Who and the Office are mainstream programming - they appeal to millions of people. Most anime appeal to thousands of people. They're entirely different markets. 3) All three shows (especially the venerable Monty Python) more than made back what was spent on them long ago. Any profits from DVD sales are icing on the cake. For the US (and European) anime industry, DVD sales are the cake.
But plenty of people have purchased both, so clearly the pricing for those shows wasn't all that ridiculous from a retail point of view. They wouldn't keep re-releasing Eva if nobody was buying it. Also, are those really the best prices you can get those things at? How about sale prices? How about second hand prices? How about just renting them through netflix or whatever when you feel like watching them?
Again, those shows already served their purpose - the DVD sales are icing. And, again, those shows have tens of millions of fans rather than tens of thousands. It's economies of scale. The only anime that comes close to the same sort of mainstream exposure would be stuff like Pokemon and other children's shows - non-children's anime in the USA is not mainstream and you can't expect the same sales model to work for it.
But unless you've read and watched everything available, it's not really a problem.
I'd have no problem if all you were downloading was an English script (or just the subs without the pictures) so that you could create your own fansub using the official R2 release.
Why do you have to wait to be told that company X doesn't want you ripping off series Y? Shouldn't you take that for granted from the outset? I would have thought that "please don't rip off our stuff" was pretty much the default position for anime, TV and manga companies. Last edited by Moomintroll on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Renting is legal. Making and downloading fansubs is not legal. Impatience is not a valid reason to download fansubs to see if you like it or not. if you rent the first one, or two discs and decide you don't like it at least the people who brought it to you still get a bit of payment for doing so. How does a fansub do the same thing? Saying that it will never be licensed in your country is not a valid reason to download a fansub, because if that happens chances are you weren't suppose to see it unless you are living in Japan anyway. What you never had, you'll never miss, and you have no right to use someone's stolen copy. All good things to those who wait. Oh damn, you've droppd off again already. |
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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Renting is legal. It's also kind of a hassle, not always an option (world =/= USA after all), even if it is available, the selection may be very small (like in my country - one can watch horrible quality Inuyasha and YGO episodes, Akira, the GITS movie and a handful of Miyazaki movies only so many times).
Downloading fansubs is illegal. But they're free, they're convenient, they're easy to get, and they're the only way people can see some shows at all, at least in the next ~10 years. How am I hurting the industry if I download a show that otherwise I wouldn't even know about? Hell, how am I hurting the industry if I import shows that I became aware of via fansubs? So yeah. They're illegal, no doubt. But still they exist and serve a purpose, good or bad.
.............Yeah. Right. How long do I have to wait to be able to buy Kemonozume on a reasonable price, preferrably with subtitles? 'Cos while I like the show (that I got to know via fansubs), it sure isn't worth $323 + shipping (that is 56,560+ HUF in my currency) to me, especially without subs. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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I'm no yank. Me ESL person. Me live in small and insignificant Central European country with worthless currency and a small anime fandom (it's developing though, thanks to fansubs).
Also, I wasn't asking for sympathy (huh? where did you read that?). It's not like I cry myself to sleep every night because I can't afford (and even if I could, I wouldn't want) to pay such outrageous money for a bunch of DVDs, no matter how good the show is. I bought my share of anime, and I'll buy more when I can afford it. Until then, I watch fansubs (well, raws, actually) and whatever happens to be on TV. And if I ever come across Kemonozume (or any other show I like) at a decent price, I'll support the creators by buying it, instead of leaving it there because I have no idea what it is. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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At the rate we're going, the US dollar isn't going to be worth much more than toilet paper by the end fo the Bush Administration.
Oooo-this or that cheap box set!!!! Yeah, why did I spend $75 for the only season of Brisco County? I would expect IF they ever bother with Brimstone which I would dearly love to have(John Glover as the devil), it'd be up there also since it was a smaller niche title. Monty Python was WAAAAAY more expensive when they first released it. I'd expect both it & Dr Who (old series at least) are in the "thin pak cheaper re-issue" stage of their existance. I remember the set of Monty Python around $200 a yr or 2 ago when I looked & chose not to buy. We were getting 2 dvds of The Prisoner for $40 then, also-a show from the '60's. I paid about $35 for M made in 1930 because it is an art film the masses wouldn't bother with (their loss).
Again, how long to I have to wait for Brimstone? Or the really funny Student Bodies made in the '80's? Both are American product. Let me break out my violin & mourn your sadness.
But we all know what happens when the government gets their hands in the pot. Never, ever a good thing. Ever. You could probably kiss a healthy amount of the anime being made now goodbye. They'd have to write an essay about how their product is beneficial & thus deserving of money (Pick one-Kodomo whatever/Nymphet I remember. Yeah, taxpayers would quietly fund that art) The only people who can be pitching this idea has to be kids with no money who download. The rest of us see how great the government is a wasting money. For every dollar collected, half would pay for studies & administrative costs-at least, if not 3/4ths. No. You're naive to think a tax would work. I can't even imagine any politician willing to risk his career suggesting this for Hollywood considering how most Americans would say just do without. Hell, a lot of taxpayers say abolish WIC. You REALLY think Hollywood deserves a dime to them? What is the issue you all have with commercials anyway? God, some people's only reason for watching the Super Bowl is the commercials. Some commercials are better than the shows they're interrupting. My sister had a walker when she was little &, according to my folks, she scarred up the old tv plowing into it all the time because whatever she was doing, when she heard a commercial, she beelined for the tv. My daughter also seemed to pay more attention to the commercials than the shows sometimes. Most people I know don't have that big an issue about skipping commercials. They get some sort of peripheral notice from it. Maybe as soon as it started, they went to get a sandwich, but most see enough they know Mickey D's Big Macs are 2 for $3 or Quizno's has those $2 Sammies. And most people I know coupon to save a buck. What the hell are coupons but ads? "Here's $.50 off-buy our product." We are never getting away from ads. I get ads in my dvds-here's a coupon for $3 off this movie or $1 off this juice. We don't need a tax to replace ads. The few who hate them are few & you will likely mellow out & find them enjoyable. I used to love watching those specials where they run a bunch of ads for the whole show. I used to leave the Entertainment channel on to use the movie ads as background when I was working in the living room. Your example of the BBC (whoever brought it up) doesn't wash. Why do you think OUR public broadcast channel has regular marathons begging for donations? Because you couldn't get Americans to grudgingly fork over $10 per month to support PBS. "I don't watch the hoity toity crap! Why should I pay for it?!" We aren't the most culturally advanced nation on this planet & we actually not only know it, some of us wallow in our ignorance while the rest are resigned to our fate. |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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I felt the urge to say "IT HAS BEGUN.." Mortal Kombat style. Heh.
Hmm..well, I can't say it's a bad start, it's illegal to upload, so I don't see why it's a huge deal as a report. If things get way too out of hand, no matter what happens, people still will find other ways to get things to free. However, if they are following their law, it's every right to call the cops and government incompetent?  perhaps, maybe not...
people even tried to make anime out for free to stream, but that's not good enough. ...sorry, going off topic again. I don't know what to add to these posts, but...I don't like people calling other people stupid for any views whatsoever. ._. impoliteness, much? |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Since we're debating the tax idea, I would be in favor of a "media" tax, i.e. a special sales tax on all digital media containers.
Basically a tax on storage space, fixed as a dollar sign per byte (with a cutoff below a certain threshhold for non-portable media. So a tax on CD-r, DVD-r, hard drives, flash drives, and all other digital storage media (with perhaps an exemption for hard drives that are below a certain capacity, say %25 the average capacity on the market, so that smaller hard drives don't get taxed). That way, those people who download and wish to keep lots of stuff pay for it, and those who wish to buy non-recordable, pre-printed media like DVDs don't have to pay the tax. Can everyone be happy with that, now? |
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