Forum - View topicNEWS: 2 Japanese Accused of Uploading 1,000s of Anime Episodes
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Why is everyone getting all up in arms over this though? Nobody is contesting that they are talented writers. In fact fxg97873 even said he though they were. He just said that at least some of them don't speak much Japanese. Is that not a reasonable assumption? Not to mention the reason he brought this up in the first place was to say that ANN is not anti-fansub and at least some of it's staff do use fansubs. That is also correct is it not? There doesn't seem to be anything you and him seem to actually disagree about. |
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BluMeino
Posts: 65 |
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My original comment was made over how rather how annoying it is that ANN can seem to be posed against funsubs and those who watch fansubs. Sure buying shows is important, but it's hard to buy everything you want and I don't want people like Answerman making me feel obligated to buy the show just because I may have liked the fansubs, I simply do not have the access to that kind of monetary resource as a college student: eating and textbooks are far more important.
Sure I'll get flak for saying this there are definitely arguments against, but if we all want a more Japanese experience, then we should be able to see a show without necessarily paying a price and tax on it before we decide to buy and keep. And going to places like Game Stop is obviously a rip off if I wanted to trade in as they'd most like give me $3 per disc and then go ahead and sell it for $9. I have never traded in anything at these places, my friends have, so I can believe this is true. And honestly, I don't care for dubs. Again with Answerman, sure I may not speak Japanese, but at least I can tell when some American actor sounds like crap and completely lacks emphasis on their work. I'd say dubs only work for me when the story is not based in Japan and has no Japanese influences: ala Berserk, whose dub I prefer to the Japanese. Though the main thing is, yes pirating is bad but you can never ostracize those who do their part for free, the fansubbers and uploaders. Sure once a show is licensed, they may quit this distribution, but surely you just reviews or word of mouth is nothing to actually seeing and understanding a show before you decide to buy. I never buy movies without having seen them. |
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Asako
 Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
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I don't believe that's the case. I think that if people aren't able to download fansubs, more than ever they will need a resource that can point them in the direction of what is coming out, what is good, and the rankings they've always been doing. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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As others have already stated though, that is not really accurate. ANN's official policy is that it has no official stance on fansubs. Because they are illegal they don't allow people actually posting links to them. However, discussion of anime that can only be seen fansubbed is totally fine. In fact the only place you will really get people attacking fansub watchers is in the actual fansub morality debates. Even then though for every person against them you will probably find someone who is defending them. |
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stopher87
Posts: 75 |
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Being a college student i do not have a lot of money. So fansubbing is really my only option. The fact that the dubbs are terrible does not help at all either. I mean to buy the series i like like one piece there are what 343 eps. out right now and on a dvd there are about 5 eps. They cost about 10 bucks a pop thats thats 68.6 dvds, so thats 686 dollars if my math is correct. Which now that i think about it is not that much stretched over a long period of time. But again the quality of the dubbing is terrible for one piece and cuppled with everything else i watch there would be no way i could pay. I wish I had more money. I would buy a select few animes (DBZ).
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Oronae
Posts: 165 |
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So, why is it again that the first thing mentioned in a thread about a couple of raw uploaders getting nailed is fansubs? This is followed, of course, by more debate about fansubs and whether or not some of the ANN staff uses them. The article makes no mention of fansubs WHATSOEVER. Can you people not discuss the actual articles as opposed to using them to springboard into the same tired old ideological debates EVERY SINGLE TIME?
As for the article, while I'm sad that the Japanese government seems more concerned with going after non-comercial piracy as opposed to the real bootleggers, I don't live in Japan so it's not really any of my concern if their government pushes such laws through with no regard for the will of the people. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Because if you cut off the source, then there won't be fansubs. Fansub production relies on raws (TV, DVD, Blu-ray). If there is no one to upload them, then there won't be material to make fansubs. Using mail to distribute raws from Japan would be too expensive. IRC can also be monitored. I'm surprised that Japan hasn't gone there yet.
With regards to ANN's reviews and fansub reliance, it would be nice that they could base their reviews on raws and not on a fansub interpretation. It legitimizes them more since this site does strive to be a legitimate news service and won't leave them wide open for this type of debate on their past actions. And for those of restricted incomes, there are sites that stream for free or rent for free that are legitimate. ADV, FUNimation and TotalVid comes to mind. Just go to AoD and look in the digital download section (site is down at the moment). Another site has a similar list but would probably crash from the traffic. Edit: Here's the link posted in the AoD thread. Last edited by hikaru004 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:25 am; edited 3 times in total |
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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No, not every one. It very rarely indexes Japanese websites, for instance. And yeah, it's kind of amusing (or sad?) how any given ANN thread can turn into a fansub debate whether the actual article even mentions fansubs or not. It's like a Pavlovian reaction: if an article mentions anime at all, someone will definitely drag in fansubs.
Sure. Provided you live in the USA. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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This post is pretty funny if you read it aloud to yourself in the same voice as Wallace Shawn's character in The Princess Bride |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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Well anime is a consumer product and not a right. If those Japanese citizens can't afford it, then they should go onto other forms of entertainment that's reachable in their budget imo.
Well, I do live in R1. 
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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Or maybe the companies should try to change their business model? I mean, I can't blame Japanese for not wanting to blow 5000+ yen (that's 46+ USD) on two, maximum three episodes... or one, if it's an OVA. Sure, the releases are usually very pretty and come with many extras, but even so it's legitimized stealing. Sure, anime is not a right and so on, but if you're an anime company, it would be kind of arrogant, not to mention suicidal to just shrug and say "if you can't afford it go and do something else" to your customers and continue to release horribly overpriced DVDs. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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The article wasn't about fansubs. The Japanese have been playong games with the copyright law for yrs & it's biting them in the rear. Now it's actually hurting what could be a major industry for them, they're scrambling for ways to protect their product. Maybe they'll pass some laws against downloading, maybe not, but from what I understand uploading is illegal in Japan. These uploaders had to know it was illegal. Like speeding-keep tempting fate & one eill likely get nailed eventually. These guys could have stopped long ago but didn't so they may get to pay for breaking the law. So the fansubbers lose their source. Doesn't bother me. If these uploaders are even involved in the fansub circle. Your fav fansubber may not use these guys so you can all breathe easy. THese guys have been out of commission for a bit it would appear since this has gone on for a month or so. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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But that's what other industries do. Take the diamond industry. Can't afford the baseline diamond? "Sucks to be you." Can't afford the cheapest car? "Catch the bus, subway. taxi..." Sure you can counter argue that they had a cheap option, but that option is still expensive. If you can't afford things nowadays, you are not the target population for the product. If you wonder why all the examples are luxury products, that's because anime is a luxury product also. |
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nhat
Posts: 922 |
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The in college and dub is an excuse that has been used a lot. The dubbers are great thanks to actors like Crispin. As for money issues I seen my friends and their friends buy videogames and movies and those cost 50-60 and 20- 30 dollars a pop respectively, among other things. They just have to sacrifice food for a while or something else, lol. In all honestly I too download sub but if it is too hard to get, than I won't really care about getting them because in the end, studying and college life is more important. In the end, I graduated and got a job, I had some money to buy things and one of those things is anime. If you don't have the resources to buy things, thats fine, but don't use it as an excuse because people understand. When you do have the resources and still pirating almost everything, well there is something wrong there. |
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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An industry can't exist without people being able and/or willing to pay for their product, and it's especially true for entertainment. You can tell people that "if you can't afford it, tough luck", but if you can't maintain a reasonable price/value ratio and enough people decide that the product is not worth the price you're asking for it, you're out of business.
Diamonds are luxury items and people who work with them or buy them know this. They price them accordingly, treat them accordingly, build their businesses accordingly. Japanese anime DVDs are not treated as luxury items by the publishers (like, say, diamonds are), they're treated as mass entertainment - but as they're absurdly overpriced it's no surprise that people are less and less inclined to buy them (of course I'm ignoring the "if it ain't free it should be!" crowd that wouldn't pay for anything, anyway). The customers feel that the DVDs are not worth the price the companies ask for them, and yeah, the companies can tell people "well, tough luck" but that won't help them in the long run. |
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