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I agree with you (though I do buy the dvds), but I think the solution for most people is to offer a service online (they are used to it already obviously) and promote it even with the fansub community as a way to support anime. I agree that the proposal of Master Lee is generally progressive on this issue, and would meet the demands of those seeking dub or sub only. That in addition to dvd sales could supply the variety of pricing structure people are looking for so that almost everyone can at least do something.

I think if this were done, and the turnaround on the sub-only episodes was short, many of the fansub groups would either be aiding this project or at the very least no longer be working against the industry. I don't think any of them has ever wished for anime to fail.

Zac wrote:

This post is pretty funny if you read it aloud to yourself in the same voice as Wallace Shawn's character in The Princess Bride

INCONCEIVABLE!

Fallout2man wrote:

Zac wrote:

This post is pretty funny if you read it aloud to yourself in the same voice as Wallace Shawn's character in The Princess Bride

INCONCEIVABLE!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Really, it's just another government trying to stop uploads by taking a few individuals to court where most people rely on the fact that most likely millions of other people do it so they won't get caught. I'm not saying the government/companies are wrong to enforce this, but I doubt anything brought to court like this will stop the majority of any kind of uploading.

I don't know how much good it will do, but I would like to remind you that fansubs were not mentioned once in this artical, it is essentially about japans enforcement on pirates in their own country, This is really no different then if ADV decided to sue that one person who uploaded evangelion because it is readily available to buy, these people are in japan and upload works that are legally available to them, this has nothing to do with international piracy or joint efforts between companies in different countries in which fansubs would then be involved.

Honestly the only way to do away with fansubs is to correctly use them. I was just doing some thinking the other day after listening to my favorite anime podcast, and they made a good point. Naruto episode 37 had around 375,000 downloads, give or take a thousand or so. If Bandai US said, "X fansubbing group, please fansub this, we will pay you and then release our episodes for a dollar or two dollars, and episode." They stand to make a nice chunk of money on the US market alone, and that is not counting DVD sales. It costs about 50,000 to license a single episode, add around a 10,000 dollar import tax fee, and then say you pay the fan subbing group 5,000 an episode, set up a website would cost about 12,000 a month and that's going high. X anime company stands to still make about 275,000 to 250,000 from just those who download alone. Now I realize that some people will always take free over paying, BUT, the level of piracy would be were it "normally is" rather than what it is now. NOW, why haven't the anime companies thought about this? How is it that I, a college student, who IS NOT a business major, who when I present this scenario to my business major friends say "This is a great idea.", can think of this?
Personally, (and I could care less what you think about me for doing such, this should not turn into the morality of downloading and fansubbing) I download about 10 series a week, by that I mean 1 episode of one series, 1 episode of another and so on and so forth, not full series at a time. If these episodes were a dollar or two an episode, and had a day of two turn around as with fansubs, I would not have a problem paying 15-30 dollars a week for anime. I just have a problem paying 34 to 50 bucks for a series, or in the instance of bandai 30-40 bucks for two episodes of Shigofumi or True Tears.... I mean come on. Paying 15 a week, is easier to do because, it's a little bit at a time that adds up, rather than alot at once, which seems to be hurting your business... Just ramblings I guess, really since no anime company will do this. The best we have gotten and I praise them when ever able is FUNI and ADV for releasing downloads for 1.99, but after how long? Still they are heading in the right direction, I am just waiting on everyone else to jump on the wagon and get smart.

No one reads posts that are all in bold, and thus no one will care what you have to say unless you post normally, without the e- equivalent of "shouting".

I always post in bold, no matter the forum or my mood. I thought that caps was the e- equivalent to shouting. My reason for posting in bold though is I have a hard time reading regular posts, and go back and read my own posts alot of the time to check over things. Perhaps I should go back and edit that though to ensure it is read.
Thanks for the advice.

Joshua-Sensei wrote:

Honestly the only way to do away with fansubs is to correctly use them. I was just doing some thinking the other day after listening to my favorite anime podcast, and they made a good point. Naruto episode 37 had around 375,000 downloads, give or take a thousand or so. If Bandai US said, "X fansubbing group, please fansub this, we will pay you and then release our episodes for a dollar or two dollars, and episode." They stand to make a nice chunk of money on the US market alone, and that is not counting DVD sales. It costs about 50,000 to license a single episode, add around a 10,000 dollar import tax fee, and then say you pay the fan subbing group 5,000 an episode, set up a website would cost about 12,000 a month and that's going high. X anime company stands to still make about 275,000 to 250,000 from just those who download alone. Now I realize that some people will always take free over paying, BUT, the level of piracy would be were it "normally is" rather than what it is now. NOW, why haven't the anime companies thought about this? How is it that I, a college student, who IS NOT a business major, who when I present this scenario to my business major friends say "This is a great idea.", can think of this?
Personally, (and I could care less what you think about me for doing such, this should not turn into the morality of downloading and fansubbing) I download about 10 series a week, by that I mean 1 episode of one series, 1 episode of another and so on and so forth, not full series at a time. If these episodes were a dollar or two an episode, and had a day of two turn around as with fansubs, I would not have a problem paying 15-30 dollars a week for anime. I just have a problem paying 34 to 50 bucks for a series, or in the instance of bandai 30-40 bucks for two episodes of Shigofumi or True Tears.... I mean come on. Paying 15 a week, is easier to do because, it's a little bit at a time that adds up, rather than alot at once, which seems to be hurting your business... Just ramblings I guess, really since no anime company will do this. The best we have gotten and I praise them when ever able is FUNI and ADV for releasing downloads for 1.99, but after how long? Still they are heading in the right direction, I am just waiting on everyone else to jump on the wagon and get smart.

Episode downloads are $1.99 per episode for a TV series, including Naruto. Look here for an example.

Yes but those are the ones that are showing on cartoon network. IE not shippuden, I was only using Shippudden as an example. Plus those that you mention once again are ones that we (THE US) have had to wait forever to get. I am talking about a 24 hour turn around as you have with fansubs, that does not have english dub and only subs.
Also that's Naruto, I don't see thinks like Rosario to Vampire, He is my master, ect things that aren't licensed, which is what the majority of the downloader's are downloading. [/b]

They aren't licensed for R1 yet or announced for R1 yet. You're basicaly suggesting R2 to put English subtitles onto a series and make it available for internet distribution. For that type of internet distribution, you need to be talking to BOST TV imo.

What a joke. Lawsuits and scare tactics have traditionally been ineffective, expensive, and unproductive-- even to the point where they backfire.

Instead of trying to put the genie back into the bottle, they should embrace digital hyperdistribution. There has to be a way for artists to be compensated, and people to be able to download. Charge a monthly fee, like for cable television.

Taking a page out of the RIAA playbook won't help, and if they don't embrace technology, the handwriting is on the wall-- the music industry's condition just keeps getting worse and worse.

The problem isn't piracy, per se. The problem is that it is becoming hard... maybe impossible to encapsulate information in discrete units and sell them. Adapt or die.

cloud1989 wrote:

I don't know how much good it will do, but I would like to remind you that fansubs were not mentioned once in this artical, it is essentially about japans enforcement on pirates in their own country, This is really no different then if ADV decided to sue that one person who uploaded evangelion because it is readily available to buy, these people are in japan and upload works that are legally available to them, this has nothing to do with international piracy or joint efforts between companies in different countries in which fansubs would then be involved.

The innocent victims arrested were simply using the internet as it was originally designed. I would hardly call downloading or copying information to be piracy-- not in the new world.

There needs to be a way for people to download however they would like, and for artists to be compensated. The media industries have stonewalled technology and sued, and they're getting what they deserve-- less sales and lower revenue. It's like trying to stop a dam from bursting.

There is always a clear pattern of whatever incumbent companies exist resisting technological advancments. Cable television was viewed as a "pirate medium" in the late 1960's early 1970's. Lisencing fees on cable subscriptions changed that, and made it a viable form of distribution.

The reason that the giant media empires are resisting technological advancment is because they want control. Control is a good thing to get if you can get it. Digital hyperdistribution technologies move control away from the media outlets and into the hands of the consumer, and the media empires fear it will put them out of business. They fear a world where an indipendent studio is able to digitally publish their content and get properly compensated, and so they are resisting technological advancement.

The sky isn't falling. Music didn't begin with the phonograph, and it won't end with a peer to peer network, and the same can be said about all other forms of entertainment. A new order is upon us, and the ones who will benefit the most from this order are the artists, who for the past 100 years have gotten the shortest end of the stick.

First it will be to catch virus uploaders, then it will be regular anime. No more free fansubs. It could happen.

Chiaki777 wrote:

First it will be to catch virus uploaders, then it will be regular anime. No more free fansubs. It could happen.

Stop kidding yourself. There's nothing Washington, Brussels, Geneva, or any of the media empires can do about filesharing. Historically, cutting off the heads of a few people to set examples for the tribe has never worked for any real length of time-- look at the fall of any non-benevolent dictatorial regime.

All that the media empires are doing is creating an arms race between the digital hyperdistributors and themselves. They should have embraced digital hyperdistribution instead of calling it "piracy." They should have built a viable subscription-based economic business model similar to cable television.

ilikehotaznz wrote:

Chiaki777 wrote:

First it will be to catch virus uploaders, then it will be regular anime. No more free fansubs. It could happen.

Stop kidding yourself. There's nothing Washington, Brussels, Geneva, or any of the media empires can do about filesharing. Historically, cutting off the heads of a few people to set examples for the tribe has never worked for any real length of time-- look at the fall of any non-benevolent dictatorial regime.

You seriously believe that? You do know who it was that invented and constructed the internet as we know it today? Did you actually think the internet was a natural phenomena like air, or water created by God?

Quote:

All that the media empires are doing is creating an arms race between the digital hyperdistributors and themselves. They should have embraced digital hyperdistribution instead of calling it "piracy." They should have built a viable subscription-based economic business model similar to cable television.

I think they are trying to now, but are a bit annoyed that the pirates were a bit quicker on the draw. Now they have to clear out the squatters. If anything they can be blamed for it's allowing it to happen for too long.

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