×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Hey Answerfans!


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
teh*darkness



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 901
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:49 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Increasingly, anime production in Japan has been influenced by fan reaction and commentary. Do you think this is a good thing or bad thing? Why?


I think this question is directly related to the commotion over episode 4 of Gurren Lagann when the animation quality suddenly plummeted compared to the first three episodes and the fans cried "foul". Several people lost their jobs, were demoted, stepped down, or were removed from the project due to the firefight that followed. I doubt this question has anything to do with the "type" or "genre" of anime being made, but more, the direction said anime goes in, and the quality that the viewers are willing to put up with, or lack thereof, in the animation department.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6864
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:49 am Reply with quote
Not going to write any essays this week, but a few bits from the AnswerFans responses jumped out at me...
rednall wrote:
the last volume of Fate/stay night was SUPPOSED to come out just after their deadline...
Um, what? Didn't it come out just before the cutoff date?
Nathan Gregory Sanzone-McDowell wrote:
don't make me wait five years (still 3 volumes away from finishing out the Inuyasha series, that's about how long it will end up taking VIZ to release what I've already watched
Say what? Didn't the last volume come out in June 2007, 3 years after the Japanese broadcast finished?
Alex Price wrote:
there are already plenty of "fansub groups" that just rip the R1 dvds and copy the official subtitles into their version.
Except they don't call themselves "fansub groups" unless they happen to release fan-translated episodes as well.
The channel rules of one such group wrote:
We are NOT a fansubbing group. Please do not assume so.
That's okay though, lots of people make that mistaken assumption...usually along with comments like "this group's translation sucks, were's the honorifics and karaoke?" But in this era of HDTV-quality fansubs and fansub translation/presentation that's perceived* to be better than official releases, DVD-rips are quickly becoming as irrelevant to the downloading masses as the actual DVDs are. Which is why I've said in the past (repeatedly, like a broken record) that the companies could stand to make their presentations more "fansub-esque" within the limits of DVD or Blu-Ray technology. (No need to actually work with the fansub groups themselves, I'm sure the companies are familiar enough with "the enemy" and their practices.) Maybe I'm wrong and it wouldn't make a bit of difference in sales, but at this point, what do the companies have to lose by doing so?

*I'm not making any claims of fansubs being better or not, just saying that the "fansubs are better" perception exists.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:57 am Reply with quote
I agree that speed is the main thing the R1 companies need to work on and I think having episodes available to download with sub only is the best idea, ala Viz's release of Death Note (however they should have started that one sooner, since I don't think there was ever any doubt that it would get licensed).

Working with fansubbers however, well, it depends on whether the fansubber has the proper qualifications to be hired for such work. If they are equal to the people a company already has working on translation and subtitles, then fine, go right ahead. However I would suspect that a lot of them are not.

So mainly I agree that they just need to find ways to compete with fansubs because right now the fansubs are offering something the R1 companies aren't. Sure, there will still be people who just download for free but I think there are a decent number who would like to support the industry if they could, while still getting what they want from being able to preview series/watch the whole thing as close to it's original release as possible.

Of course, this would put more risk on licensing because a series would have to be licensed before it was complete. So I don't think it is reasonable to think that it will happen for ever series, but the big ones that are obvious choices to be brought over could be done quite successfully, IMO.

They also would probably need to have DRM on them, not only to protect the R1 company but the Japanese one as well, because neither of them want their product floating around there to be traded for free. Anyone who doesn't like that is a lost cause anyway.

Wow, that turned out longer than I had anticipated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Jackmace Ryo



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Southeast Asia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:28 am Reply with quote
teh*darkness wrote:

I think this question is directly related to the commotion over episode 4 of Gurren Lagann when the animation quality suddenly plummeted compared to the first three episodes and the fans cried "foul". Several people lost their jobs, were demoted, stepped down, or were removed from the project due to the firefight that followed. I doubt this question has anything to do with the "type" or "genre" of anime being made, but more, the direction said anime goes in, and the quality that the viewers are willing to put up with, or lack thereof, in the animation department.


(I'm quoting you because it's related to my reply)

Yes, that's what I thought about this week's question too. After all, reaction and commentary only happens to something that is ALREADY been made, not something that is wished to be made... In that case, if the only thing in question is animation quality I think it's a good thing... but, since the question asked 'production' as a whole, it may be related to stories of some anime being tweaked because of fan popular demand. If so, then it is debatable whether it's good or bad (maybe like a rumor I've heard that spoiler[Kira is alive in the end] in Gundam SEED is because popular demand).

But in this case, other than that Gurren-Lagann case, I don't heard so much about that recently (later) production has been influenced by fans.. perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skyesage



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:19 am Reply with quote
That last answer is utterly classic. But anyways, this question is interesting.

I hope that you continue to have both funny questions and real questions--it helps make the whole thing a little more bearable?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18137
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:58 am Reply with quote
Cephus wrote:
As I've said before, the only way R1 companies are going to routinely get my dollars is to put it out subtitled, fast, cheap, completely uncut, uncensored and accurate and downloadable without DRM. They need to earn my money, otherwise they don't deserve it. If they could do what the fansubbers do, get an episode out a week after it's aired in Japan, subtitled, for a buck or two, they'd be making a mint. If they cannot or will not (and my bets are on the latter most of the time), then they don't deserve to stay in business.


If by "making a mint" you mean "struggling to cover basic costs" then you might be right. You seem to be operating under the assumption that, using this method, the companies would be able to avoid certain inherent costs, like translation and subtitling and most especially digital licensing fees, which I don't doubt would be exorbitant. Besides, what percentage of fansub watchers who currently refuse to buy DVDs (for whatever reason) would actually be willing to pay "a dollar or two" an episode when they can still get it for free - and, in the claims of some, in a production supposedly superior to a professional R1 release?

Anyway, on the proper subject, I can see two big reasons why companies working with fansub groups would never work:

1) Money would get in the way. How many fansub groups would be committed enough to keep producing their fansubs for free if they know that some company is (legally) making money off of their efforts?

2) Ego would get in the way. Fansub groups working with/for companies would, by dint of business necessity, have to conform to the standards of the company they work with: meet production deadlines, use the company's stylistic conventions, work on what the company wants done, and so forth. How many of them would actually be willing to operate under such constraints?

And, in any case, nothing will happen with this until the Japanese companies get on board.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
GrdAdmiral



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:03 am Reply with quote
Quote:
(Geneon, mainly, which irritated me since the last volume of Fate/stay night was SUPPOSED to come out just after their deadline...).


What are you talking about? All six volumes (24 Episodes) were released by Geneon. I don't understand why your saying the last volume was not released.

You can purchase all the volumes here http://www.animecornerstore.com/fatestaynight.html

I personally think that Hellsing Ultimate would have been a better choice for that argument. Smile Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Mr Blister



Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 am Reply with quote
I don't want anime to be influenced by fans because quite frankly most fans (I'm including myself in this Laughing ) wouldn't know how to create a good story if one ran up to them and bit them in teh ass.

Now before people start, there is a whole world of difference between being able to recognise good storytelling and being able to tell a good story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cgreedy



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:11 am Reply with quote
I think most people who bash fansubbers are hypocrites. I would read things such as "I watch fansubs but they're are evil" Bottom line is this, most of you started off with fansubs and moved on the buying the dvds. Which is the whole point of fansubs. Now there are some groups who does DVD rips but don't blame the rest of the community. Most group WILL drop a series without any hesitation when a series is license even if it meant dealing with some angry people. So kindly lay off on those ignorant comments. Now for those who never downloaded a fansub, you're pretty much have the right to bash the fansubbers as much as you want but you are missing out on some great series. BTW, I do support the industry and buy the official releases and I have a shelf to prove it. I probably would never been into anime if fansubbers didn't exist.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2333
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:12 am Reply with quote
Frankly, thanks to my full-time job now, I can afford to buy all my anime region 1 and 2. I'm waiting on volume 8 of Lucky Star coughspoiler[torrent]cough and in April I'll have the first Rebuild Eva movie spoiler[not torrent]. And I've always been a strong advocate of Netflix, spoiler[even though I also advocate DVD Shrink at the same time] but I've begun to move away from that recently.

Whatever happens in the industry happens. Bubbles come and bubbles burst. I've just enjoyed the ride while it lasted. And, personally, some of the shows recently have been pretty generic. I think it's because I'm older that I've grown to realize it's not all that different from over here in the states. Sorry if I burst anyone's bubbles, but I'm not.

Younger, I was always an Ayanami fan. As I got older, I just became too old for her, that and the whole 2D thing.

As for listening to the fans' responses on a show, do we REALLY know what the hell we like? Most of our ideas come from our egos, superegos, anoregos, legomyegos, and ids. And, for the most part, most anime comes from the ids. And if you're catching anything of superego material, most likely it'll be on 4Kids. We don't have much of anything in pure ego, and the last thing I'd want is for'em to be polluted by our id. Let egos be egos and our ids be our own. Should I capitalize these Freud terms? Cause I don't really care. And yet I bother asking. God I'm tired, why am I working today? Oh yeah, the Eva movie.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Anon Y. Mous



Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:52 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Also, here's a cat licking a kitten. It's pretty damn cute.

But probably not as cute as that baby rabbit I posted last week.


No, it's cuter. Kittens > baby rabbits. Especially the little chubby ones.

And who wants to watch an anime tailored for the fans? would anybody want to watch Super Robot Loli Tentacle Harem Moe Love Love Time?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OneHotAlchemist



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:14 am Reply with quote
Cephus wrote:
As I've said before, the only way R1 companies are going to routinely get my dollars is to put it out subtitled, fast, cheap, completely uncut, uncensored and accurate and downloadable without DRM. They need to earn my money, otherwise they don't deserve it. If they could do what the fansubbers do, get an episode out a week after it's aired in Japan, subtitled, for a buck or two, they'd be making a mint. If they cannot or will not (and my bets are on the latter most of the time), then they don't deserve to stay in business.


So wait, you want it released on a downloadable format before there's even a Japanese version on DVD? You pretty much show absolutely no understanding whatsoever as to how subtitled anime works.

Furthermore, there's a very, very, very, LARGE chance that this method would actually sell worse than DVD sales, seeing as the majority of anime watchers (the cartoon network generation) are dub watchers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bj_waters



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:13 am Reply with quote
Belldandy!!!


Oh . . . wait . . . heh.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1448
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:18 am Reply with quote
OneHotAlchemist wrote:

So wait, you want it released on a downloadable format before there's even a Japanese version on DVD? You pretty much show absolutely no understanding whatsoever as to how subtitled anime works.

Furthermore, there's a very, very, very, LARGE chance that this method would actually sell worse than DVD sales, seeing as the majority of anime watchers (the cartoon network generation) are dub watchers.


Agreed. Seriously, I don't care if people hate dubs. I like my bilingual DVDs, I can switch to whatever format I want. It's not a waste of time or money. The main language in the US is English, and it's not going to kill anyone to press a button and put the language to be "Japanese."

I think Naruto and One Piece are an exception, since they have a kids version and then the original uncut version.

And no, it's not being ignorant to anime in general.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:27 am Reply with quote
The notion of bringing the fansubbers into the public square based on the idea that the proletariats LOVE the fansubbers and will buy any DVDs to have a $29.99 sticker placed on 'em by said fansubbers is a little... off. Lately, the rabble realized that if they harrass the R1 industry, then they will roll over dead, which isn't very exciting. So, without any other anime authority to protest, there has been a movement towards bashing fansub groups.

Basically, people are starting to incriminate x-fansub group with things like "you've changed, man! it used to be about the ANIME!" and "it has no VISION!" or "it only translates the POPULAR STUFF!". The "fansubbers = stupid" meme from 4chan should come to mind.

...Yeah. It's kind of like RENT. Only this is actually entertaining.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 2 of 17

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group