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REVIEW: Fate/Zero Episodes 1-6 Streaming


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Sailor S





PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:15 am Reply with quote
Mike Toole wrote:

Sailor S wrote:
Well, from what I've seen of it thus far, here is where FZ fails. The Rider/Waver pair. While this Rider is certainly amusing, FZ is a big enough sausage fest so having the lovely Rider from FSN be replaced (yeah, I know, prequel) with a pile of GAR is a downer for me. And can they please kill Waver already? He's annoying and obnoxious and the less screen time he gets the better.


Couldn't disagree more, the Rider/Waver mismatch is one of my favorite parts of the series so far. I'd watch an entire series just about them.


Well, to each their own. Some people apparently enjoy characters with whiny voices who should be shaken and slapped until they're in a coma, but I do not.
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Nayu



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 676
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:18 am Reply with quote
I agree with the D for story so far. We've been tortured with tons of words but very little plot. Its almost like the writer is in love with how witty and convoluted he can make the dialogue. I watch this show and scream at the tv "GET TO THE POINT ALREADY". There are delightful, horrific, wonderful pieces to it. I love the tragedy of Sakura and her uncle, any time we see Iri and Saber interact is also good, but if there's sausage on screen I just want to change over to something else. Pretty much any scene featuring Tokiomi, Kirei and Kirei's father is extremely painful. Get all three on screen and the pain is cubed.

Just wait, I'm sure we'll get badly animated digital animals eventually and the collective groans will skyrocket.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:50 am Reply with quote
***Breathes in deeply.***

Okay, I'm going to try to be as rational and as calm as possible.

Patachu wrote:
You don't clarify what bothers you so much about the animation or music grades so I don't know what answer you want to hear.


To counter this, I'll simply recite one of the most famous quotes in American history: "We hold these truths to be self-evident".

I shouldn't have to explain why I'm annoyed, I thought it was obvious. But since it is apparently not as obvious as I thought I'll talk about them, see below.

Patachu wrote:
Would y'all like me to re-review the whole thing and redeem myself when it's over? Razz


Usually when people use the word "redeem" they imply that a mistake was made right. Are you saying that you regret the grades you gave? Because the rest of your post says the opposite. Sorry, I know it's a joke from the emoticon, but I had to at least ask.

Patachu wrote:
Also people who are fixating on the grade before actually reading the review, maybe you should read it first before posting, so we can actually discuss the points of the review, just saying


I did read the review. The grades you gave have little to no bearing on what you yourself said in the review. Just because the music really only kicks in for the fight scenes would not - in my opinion - warrant it being given a C, especially when the fight scenes are so well scored. The OP and ED are at least average, and the non-combat scenes don't really need all that much accompaniment, so great + average + average again does not equal a C grade.

The art is hardly as bad as a C+, as when compared to other shows that have aired in the last few years it holds its own. Your idea of "average effort" is certainly far removed from my idea of the term. Average compared to what? Mushi-shi? Moribito? 5cm/s? Compared to the average Anime, it is actually a fairly decent effort, I thought. Not amazing, but things look crisp enough, and there some cool lighting tricks here and there.

I agree with your animation grade of B+, can't argue with that, but your story grade of D is quite frankly shocking, the most egregious part of the review.

It seems like you want another Fate/Stay Night where each Servant and their Master are revealed slowly. The mere fact that Fate/Zero introduces them all at once has been automatically penalised by you it seems, and heavily so. I thought the exposition scenes were not nearly as bad as many have claimed, and the fact that we know of all the players in the story right from the start is appealing to me. The characters are mostly interesting, some a lot more than others but hey, that's okay.

I have had fun - and am still having fun - trying to figure out who will off who, and when, and how. The story itself is an acceptable one, with a battle royale at the centre of many fast-developing personal rivalries and outright feuds. I do believe it has tried to introduce too much too quickly, but it is not a fatal error. Too much rationale is also not a fatal error. Maybe there's too much talking during battle, but you'll get that in any Shounen work one cares to name, so it is hardly a large black mark. Once on its chosen track of exposition and then fighting/conflict, Fate/Zero has not put a major step wrong.

I'm no rabid fanboy, I'm a Type-Moon hater, one who has been enjoying Fate/Zero a lot more than with many shows this season. You may not like the series and its direction thus far but you have overreacted in your grades for it. The show has many flaws, I'm not disputing that. But none of them individually - or even all of them collectively - are so bad as to warrant the extreme prejudice you have laid upon it.



Well, I think I got through that pretty well. Maybe being put on Moderation does work after all. Oh wait, yeah, right.


Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1544
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:01 am Reply with quote
I can definitely see how not everyone would enjoy this series, as it IS quite dense and exposition heavy. But I disagree that it's excessive: aside from the battle between Saber and Lancer, which suffered a bit too much from "let's explain our attacks to each other" syndrome, all the exposition has been interesting and entertaining, and I've seen very little redundancy in it. Having said that, it really does depend on how much you want to learn about the various rules of the War and about how Mage culture works. I find that stuff interesting, but not everyone will.

It's also quite a departure from Fate Stay Night, which focused on only one of the masters, and gave us the war entirely from Shiro's perspective. Fate Zero chooses instead to focus on all seven masters at once, giving us every participant's perspective. It's a major switch, and one I think is gutsy and fascinating. It's also arguably necessary, since viewers of Stay Night already know how this war is going to end.

Since the show can't hinge on the question of "who will win the war?" it instead asks "who were the participants in the Fourth Holy Grail War? What did they want, and what became of them?" Getting that answer requires a lot of story and a lot of shifting plotlines, but so far I think it's been handled well. But it's easy to see how this approach could annoy a viewer, especially one who was expecting to just see a story about spoiler[ Kiritsugu Emiya and Saber and how they ended up destroying half the town.]

In other words, while I disagree with this review, I can really see where it's coming from.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1168
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:31 am Reply with quote
I'm enjoying it a great deal so far - I like the talky, still parts, as I find the conversation to be plenty interesting - although I do think that first episode is going to be a giant hump that may impede on some potential fans penetration of the series at large. Having a lot of talking is one thing, but having a Giant-Size X-Men opening episode with nothing but it is another. On the whole, the show kind of reminds me of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, but with magic and sorcerer politics - although even that had plenty of action in its standard length opener.

I'm left to assume that they were banking on its reputation being enough for new people to be alright with it, otherwise I'd think they'd have pulled some V Gundam "What do you MEAN the title robot isn't fighting in the first episode!?" scene order monkey business.

By the way, is the "best enjoyed by those who have already seen (or played) the original Fate/stay night" based on being familiar with Fate/Stay Night yourself or an assumption? I do agree that the sheer amount of talky talky is probably enough to keep away people who can't stand that kind of thing, although I'm not so sure heightened familiarity with the source material is necessary to get the most out of it regardless. I guess I say this because I've always had a hard time getting into Fate/Stay Night right from the start ("My name is Shiro, here's my high sch-" ZZZZZZZ), such that my only real familiarity with it coming into this is some character names and the basic Mamodo battle for the Dragon Balls idea.


Last edited by Kicksville on Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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blackseer



Joined: 09 Sep 2011
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:18 am Reply with quote
Patachu wrote:

Well, why NOT a D? It stands for "below average." To me average would be, you have an idea for a huge fantasy story and in Episodes 1-6 of a 26-ep series you introduce about 25% of the content. This one tries to introduce (or foreshadow) freakin' 100% everything and falls on its butt in the process.

Just a note/question. Will Fate/Zero have 26 ep? Gen Urobuchi said in his interview it might have 14 only.

Also, I read the review, finally. While I agree with most of it (and what I disagree are minor details), I still have to complain about the grade. I believe the grading system is primarly focus on the casual viewer, who doesn't want to spend time reading long essays about people's opinion of the next anime they might watch. So people like this usually go to broad spectrum websites (which I believe ANN is one of them) and matches the grades from them and decide which anime they should try.

And that's where it becomes a problem. Casual viewers will see that Fate/Zero only achieved a D in story and a C+ with art (usually the most appealing of an anime atributes) and will give this one a pass.

Hopefully, there are other more forgiving review and grades out there, enough for anyone to at least try the series, which it deserves.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:29 am Reply with quote
Patachu wrote:
To me average would be, you have an idea for a huge fantasy story and in Episodes 1-6 of a 26-ep series you introduce about 25% of the content. This one tries to introduce (or foreshadow) freakin' 100% everything and falls on its butt in the process.

How can you possibly know that? No, seriously. How? Are you of the opinion that there is absolutely nothing that Fate/Zero can do that hasn't already been either told outright or foreshadowed in these first 6 episodes? If you are, then I'm calling bullshit. And in the next few episodes when something happens that wasn't expected I hope there's an apology on this thread.

F/Z laid out the general concept and the characters that will be involved. Moribito laid out the general concept and the characters that would be involved as well in the first 6 episodes. Would you give the first 6 eps of Moribito a D in terms of story?

You complaints are ridiculous. You cannot possibly claim that '100% everything' has been explained or foreshadowed already unless you have read the Fate/Zero novels. It's bullshit and I can't believe a reviewer on this site would actually claim such. Rate the content by what has been told. Not by what you think won't be told. Ridiculous.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:30 am Reply with quote
blackseer wrote:
Just a note/question. Will Fate/Zero have 26 ep? Gen Urobuchi said in his interview it might have 14 only.


It is indeed two cour but has been broken up into non-consecutive halves. So one cour will air in Fall 2011 (i.e. now) and the other will air in Spring 2012.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:49 am Reply with quote
I never saw FSN or played the games yet I am enjoying the series immensely. Granted I do think it is a tad overrated (well I see people claiming it's the best series of 2011 and well I disagree with that) but I still find it engaging and fun to watch.

I don't really mind all the dialog either because it has a great cast of seiyuu, that makes a world of difference. Plus it is an adaption of a light novel so I guess I expected some heavy dialog.

Finally for the person on here who complained about Rider/Waver hmmph they are my favorite characters. The series is pretty dark so it's nice to have something a bit lighter and fun, yet it's not to the point that it spoils the dark atmosphere of the show either.


Last edited by Maidenoftheredhand on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:00 am Reply with quote
This review has generated a rage thread on /a/. First I've seen in a long time, they usually ignore the reviews and community. I won't link, that place kills brain cells. Very Happy
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:19 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
F/Z laid out the general concept and the characters that will be involved. Moribito laid out the general concept and the characters that would be involved as well in the first 6 episodes. Would you give the first 6 eps of Moribito a D in terms of story?


I should preface this by saying that I haven't yet seen any of F/Z so I don't have any particular opinion on it. However, in no way did Moribito lay out all (or even close to all) of the characters that would be involved in the first six episodes. It was really just the core few with glimpses of a few others. Of course, it's also important to note that a show like moribito with a fairly small cast so while it may have introduced more of it's cast percentage-wise, it was not that many in actual quantity. Again, haven't seen F/Z so I don't know but I'm guessing I'll have a pretty large cast if it's anything like F/SN. If that's the case then yeah, I definitely this you wouldn't want to introduce all the characters right away. If you recall, F/SN didn't introduce all the characters right off the bat. They took their time, slowly adding new servants and masters to the mix over the course of the series and I would say it worked pretty well. It went a long way toward not overwhelming you early on, intriguing you as to who was still out there, and keeping things fresh in the long run by constantly having new characters to throw into the mix.
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Big Hed



Joined: 04 May 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:21 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
This review has generated a rage thread on /a/. First I've seen in a long time, they usually ignore the reviews and community. I won't link, that place kills brain cells. Very Happy


It's a fantastic thread. I can't stop giggling.

I'm somewhere in the middle as far as agreeing with Carlo's review. I think the show's artistry is fine, even if others might see it as an embodiment of the generic anime style. I agree pretty well fully with the animation grade; it's great, when it's there.

There is too much dialogue in the action scenes, plain and simple--and I say this as somebody who's got nothing against long stretches of blabbing and technical exposition. It isn't well-incorporated in what I've seen so far, and it kills flow. I've also got an issue with the Holy Grail War's numerous arbitrary rules concerning summoning and the use of servants, but I knew what I was getting into with F/Z, so that's a moot point I guess.

Despite these shortcomings though, I wouldn't have gone so low as a 'D' for Story.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:26 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
However, in no way did Moribito lay out all (or even close to all) of the characters that would be involved in the first six episodes.

Balsa, Chagum, Tanda, Torogai, Saya&Touya, and Shuga... I'm pretty sure they were all introduced in that span. Wouldn't you say that's basically the entire main cast?

EDIT: Fate/Stay Night was told from Shirou's perspective. So the audience only knew what he knew. Fate/Zero takes a more omniscient approach for the viewer. We can see practically everything. We're a spectator for the entire Holy Grail War, and not just one person's perspective. This is of course due to Fate/Zero being a novel and not a visual novel like Fate/Stay Night was.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:42 am Reply with quote
I personally don't feel that I can judge the review since I'd watch F/Z just to get my weekly fix of that universe. I do feel that the reasoning is valid even though how the dialogues and the exposition feel is partially up to one's own preferences. I won't agree about music and artwork. The music outside of battle scenes has always served as an uninvasive mood setter in Typemoon adaptations. I also thought that the background art was beautiful overall, not just in historical settings and character designs.

What I think is that Fate/Zero needed a more extensive, more liberal adaptation. All the scheming and inner monologues are already toned down a bit, but the Lancer/Saber fight still reminded me what I hated about Naruto fight scenes a bit. It feels too much like I'm reading the light novel again and I was bored by the light novel at times.
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vinamara



Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 229
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:01 am Reply with quote
I think the highlight of the first episode was when Kotomine and Emiya were psychoanalyzing each other simultaneously.

Moreover, I'd love to see

Gilgamesh vs Iskandar

Berserker vs Caster vs Assassin

Saber vs Lancer

Any other pair up would be preposterous. I don't wanna see uglies who use underhanded methods fighting Saber.

"the characters do most of their chatting in blandly colored indoor spaces, standing or sitting as still as possible, except when they're walking in circles as mentioned above."

If you ask me that's the Type-Moon trademark. Its a way to create their brand of ambiance that separates them from other anime of the same genre. Its always been like that. Its what makes Type-Moon anime somewhat special.

Also the little exchange between Kirei and Gilgamesh was pretty interesting at the end of episode 6.

The only annoyance in this series is Iskandar's bratty master. I hope someone swats that twit soon.
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