Forum - View topicREVIEW: Fate/Zero Episodes 1-6 Streaming
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Just thought I'd touch on a few things here.
Firstly, as far as saying "this show won't be as good if you're not familiar with Fate/stay night," part of me sincerely doubts that. All that dialogue in the first couple episodes does more than its share to introduce newcomers to the concept of the Grail War and give them a taste of Kinoko Nasu's dense, complicated spin on magic. The only things people are really missing out on by skipping Fate/stay night are the occasional references to future plot threads exclusive to Fate/stay night and the once-in-a-while emphasis on characters who are minor in Fate/zero but become key to Fate/stay night (Rin's conversation with Kirei, extra-dramatic emphasis on Archer & Saber's summonings, etc.). Hell, some of the most important references (hi, spoiler[Sakura]) likely wouldn't even be caught by those who'd seen the Fate/stay night anime because they're things that anime skipped. Not to mention both series are notably different in tone, with Fate/stay night being more action-oriented where Fate/zero is very much a character piece. That reason alone has caused more than one Fate/stay night fan I've come across to drop Fate/zero entirely because they went in expecting a big, mindless battle royale. The only way I could really see prior familiarity with Fate/stay night enhancing one's enjoyment of Fate/zero is in how Fate/zero is such a breath of fresh air when compared to the outright mediocre TV adaptation Fate/stay night received. If you want "requires prior knowledge," look at the Unlimited Blade Works movie, which cut out the exposition entirely. As for the "walking in circles" scene, I'm honestly rather frustrated with how much that's harped on here. Accusations of "animators sitting on their hands" for scenes like that are fairly unjustified, as I could ramble off a dozen different anime that had far less actual animation during talking-heads scenes, including some where blatantly budget-cutting moments of slow scenery pans set to off-screen characters chit-chatting for several minutes straight are often praised as "high art" (Evangelion comes to mind, Kare Kano too). Characters moving about as they talk, full-body shots of said individuals in motion, and shamelessly pimped-out backgrounds collectively amount to far more animation and artistry than most TV anime--especially in Fate/zero's target demographic and time slot--would ever get. Were this any other late-night TV anime, that scene would've involved minimalist backgrounds, everyone standing perfectly still, and the only motion for the full thing being the occasional facial closeup sporting nothing but lip-flaps and the even more occasional reaction shot. I would honestly go so far as to say the pacing offered up some interesting imagery, with the two schemers circling their chosen patsy like two hungry sharks circling prey. I personally thought it was fitting and helped to establish Tokiomi and Kirei's personalities at the outset of the series. As for the dense dialogue, well, that's purely personal preference and I can't object too much. Personally, I really enjoy it. Fate/zero has over fourteen major characters that it's trying to fully flesh out, and if ominous, atmospheric conversations manage to fit it all in, I'd rather that than Fate/stay night's approach of cast ten of fourteen major players aside and sacrifice some really good and interesting characters. Fate/zero's a drama, not an action piece. It follows the same Type-Moon formula of atmosphere, drama, dialogue, & mystery peppered with brief spurts of brutal action that Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, and yes, even the visual novel version of Fate/stay night did. Though I'll join everyone in saying that a "D" seems a bit harsh of a grade for what was actually said in the review ("D" classically meaning well below average onward to borderline failing), if Type-Moon's style is not Carlo's cup of tea, I can't fault him for that. He's not wrong to say so. As for me? If Fate/zero stays the course, my pick for Series of the Year will be a fistfight between two shows that will conjure amusing mental images of Gen Urobuchi punching Gen Urobuchi in the face in a brutal bid to obtain the Holy Grail for the sake of entropy. ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ |
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vinamara
 Posts: 229 |
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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but Steins;Gate (which btw was also reviewed by Carlos) was filled with nothing but talk. There were hardly any technical visual merits and yet it scored fairly well in the art and animation department even though F/Z is clearly the superior one.
I agree that the first episode was heavy on the exposition enough to drive away newcomers but the conversations in the latter episodes are interesting enough to make up for that. Steins;Gate was also clever in achieving this. At first it was all gobbledegook but once we got sucked in, we got sucked in. |
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yamata no orochi
Posts: 137 |
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Don't agree with the grades that Carlos Santos gave this series. Would have scored it higher.
If you totally disregard those grades and just read the review, though, I pretty much agree with most of what he said and understand why he didn't like the things that he did. Works in the Nasuverse aren't for everyone--they have a tendency towards long, drawn-out dialogue and philosophical psycho-babble, and God knows they can get a little pretentious. Fate/Zero isn't much of an exception to the rule, and to be fair I can easily see people being turned off from the first episode considering how incredibly dense it is with information. On the other hand, the cool thing about works like Fate/Zero and Kara no Kyoukai is while the characters talk on and on, the ideas they throw around are often really interesting. Kara no Kyoukai had some neat things to say about the soul and about the boundaries between life and death, and while Fate/Zero hasn't hit its stride yet, from all indications it's going to go to some pretty dark places before everything is said and done. I was also kind of turned off by the people walking in circles around Kirei scene, but then I realized that the creators were probably trying to emulate the stage (Fate/Zero is a "tragedy," after all) and it became a lot more understandable. Still looked awkward, though. So all in all, I think that the problems with Fate/Zero (aside from the arguably insurmountable first episode) really depend on your preferences and how much you're willing to excuse. If you're turned off by typical Nasuverse exposition and ponderousness, you might not get much out of Fate/Zero as a whole, no matter how much you want to like it. On the other hand, to me Fate/Zero's strengths (including the strengths that remain hidden in secret under the surface) are more than enough to compensate for its problems. So I guess it's really up to the beholder! |
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Konopan
Posts: 397 |
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The article itself seems decently thought out, but the C+ for art is questionable considering the level of detail in some of the backgrounds.
It might be the streaming quality, but the music isn't exactly lacking, though I will admit the only tracks that notably stood out for me are Rider's speech before the end of episode 4, and the one set up while Berserker was bein' berserk-like. Unlike a lot of Kajiura's stuff, it actually doesn't override scenes, which I find pretty refreshing. I'll wait for the OST itself, and see if I can hear more out of it while I'm rewatching episodes with friends. Animation is good, CG is integrated rather nicely. Yes, the budget is being saved for the action sequences. Probably the ones involving Berserker and Rider, which require an extensive level of effort. The plot is the plot. The one-two punch of the Kotomine exposition and the following expanded scene of Waver researching the grail war is a bit gratuitous. But it ain't a D, clunky starts with a C. spoiler[Stop complaining about the circular walk unless you want them to do it again with less animation.]
I suggest you take a teensy look at the first two PVs before you get sorely disappointed come Saturday. Oh, and spoiler[never read FSN's Heaven's Feel.] Last edited by Konopan on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ferian
 Posts: 162 |
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Being a Type-Lunatic, I get a (metaphorical) raging hard-on to Nasu's trademark psychobabble and tons of exposition. As such, I disagree with pretty much everything the reviewer has said about the story.
With that out of the way, I strongly object to the score on music. It complements events and adds to the atmosphere greatly without being overly intrusive. I don't see why every second of the show must have a tune playing in the background for the soundtrack to be considered good. The tracks that are used to emphasize certain words (like Iskander's monologue on conquest in episode 4) are well placed and neatly enhance the effectiveness of those scenes, and the parts with only sound effects in the background don't really need the ambience of a soundtrack to begin with. Overall, while the music wouldn't work well as a standalone album, as a soundtrack, it gets its job done nicely. While it's not the best of Kajiura's works and doesn't measure up to A rank, it's a solid B thus far. Also, the animation isn't good enough to warrant a B+ in my book - they're cutting way too many corners outside the combat scenes. B- is what I'd give Fate/Zero in the animation department. On this thread: it's amusing to see people hate and bash Waver. Give the kid a chance to grow, lol. After all, character development is the whole point of putting such a character as Iskander's Master (well, that and avoiding GAR overdose). |
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redranger
 Posts: 271 |
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I love it when people get butthurt over a review.
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Ferian
Posts: 162 |
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Besides, that is kinda the point of feedback - criticism and discussion. Last edited by Ferian on Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nayu
Posts: 676 |
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More like constipation. |
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Ferian
Posts: 162 |
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Mind elaborating? I kinda fail to see how reading a review can influence bowel movements. |
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MrTerrorist
Posts: 1348 |
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Do not feed the troll. Ignore him. |
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Mirri
Posts: 313 |
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spoiler[Err, he actually ends up becoming an epic badass.] to the point where [super spoiler] spoiler[during the "War for the Grail" after the fifth holy grail war, he works together with Tohsaka Rin to dismantle the greater grail. Oh, and he gets the title of "Lord El-Melloi II"!] [/spoiler] |
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Ferian
Posts: 162 |
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But... but... playing the boke and trolling the cute little troll wannabes is just so much more fulfilling. 
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Penguin_Factory
 Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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Have to disagree with that, I'm afraid. This was my first (and probably last) exposure to the Fate/ whatever series and I thought most of the dialogue was brain-meltingly dull. The vast majority was exposition, and what little emotion was present was over-wrought to a degree that was actually hilarious. It's very difficult to take lines like "your dream is to create a world where no one has to cry like you are now!" seriously when you have no idea who these people are or why you should care. That said, I can see why this franchise appeals to people. The idea of digging into a huge, sprawling fantasy world with tons of factions and characters and back stories is appealing, I just think the series needed to be 50 episodes instead of 25 so they could have paced it better. |
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MrTerrorist
Posts: 1348 |
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The writer made a mistake in his review calling Fate/Zero a spin-off when it's actually a prequel.
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Fletcher1991
 Posts: 514 Location: Long Island, NY |
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It is a prequel, but it is also a spin-off. The original creators did not make the fate/zero novel and it came after the original game, so I am pretty sure that falls under a spin-off. Unlike a lot of spin-off's though, this ties directly into the original anime/visual novel. |
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