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Hey, Answerman! [2008-03-14]

Something else that's almost never accounted for in these arguments is that the majority of illegal downloaders will never buy the thing anyway, so the amount of money "the industry" is losing to them is fairly difficult to define.

ikillchicken wrote:

Okay, if you'd care to elaborate on that maybe there is some other reason why you think this but otherwise I think you've illustrated my point perfectly. If they think it's okay to take it they must think they're entitled to it right? No, these people just don't think that way. For them it comes down to nothing more than whether they physically can take it and what the results and consequences of doing so will be. The key difference being that in this case they don't feel that it should be available but simply that it is available and it has acceptable results and therefore they will watch it.

This argument can only exist in a context where a sense of "right" and "wrong" and "could" versus "should" have been completely removed.

Which at this point is basically what we have.

They can so they will and who can blame them, right? After all, they can, so they are!

It's sad how anime fandom justifies bitter cynicism.

It's sad how anime fandom justifies bitter cynicism.

Zac wrote:

It's sad how anime fandom justifies bitter cynicism.

Pot, meet kettle. =)

Case wrote:

Zac wrote: It's sad how anime fandom justifies bitter cynicism. Pot, meet kettle. =)

Is it like your mission to just generically attack me and make lame little potshots every time you post here or what?

As you imply, I think what the industry is up against (not just the anime industry, but the comic book industry) is human nature. I think a lot of the fans don't appreciate the role they play in the bigger picture. When you don't pay for something, there's somebody out there who is not getting paid. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Actually, I kind of agree with him.

garry wrote:

ikillchicken wrote: They neither feel entitled to it, nor do they feel that you need to be entitled to something for it to be okay. Perfect description of a sense of entitlement.

Okay, if you'd care to elaborate on that maybe there is some other reason why you think this but otherwise I think you've illustrated my point perfectly. .

If they think it's okay to take it they must think they're entitled to it right?

No, these people just don't think that way. For them it comes down to nothing more than whether they physically can take it and what the results and consequences of doing so will be.

The key difference being that in this case they don't feel that it should be available but simply that it is available and it has acceptable results and therefore they will watch it.

Dramatis Personae wrote:

Actually, I kind of agree with him.

I'm cynical after 9 years or so of working in anime. However, I have not allowed that cynicism to poison my general belief that people are generally good and it is not "human nature" to automatically toss aside all ethics, morals and even the law simply because you can without consequences.

I do not think it's "world-weary wisdom" to think the worst of humanity, I think it's sad.

Zac wrote:

I'm cynical after 9 years or so of working in anime. However, I have not allowed that cynicism to poison my general belief that people are generally good and it is not "human nature" to automatically toss aside all ethics, morals and even the law simply because you can without consequences. I do not think it's "world-weary wisdom" to think the worst of humanity, I think it's sad.

Do you write poetry?

Now you are trying to justify your bitterness. Whether or not you see the purity in another's soul doesn't make you any less bitter, you've simply redirected towards everyone as a whole. If that's what seperates you from the pack, then ok.

Also, I don't think that's the issue here. Most of the "old guard" and people like myself love the industry. Sure some people may be bitter and think of them as you have described, but I don't see that from everyone. Simply I think they are tired and this pointless debate is the only means of expressing that anger.

The infighting is simply the logical conclusion of people who'd rather not see Anime die in the US vs those who may or may not care. That's for another arguemnt I have no desire to engage in all together.

Now, you're just arguing over semantics.

What you're talking about is going to apply at a subconscious level and in a general sense only and not specifically to anime.

The point is that these people don't consciously think that anime should be some sort of human right or something or that they companies are wrong for not giving it away for free.

So explaining himself is now simply a case of Zac making excuses huh? Maybe you might actually just take his words at face value instead of trying to find some hidden meaning or ulterior motive behind them.

I also have to ask how in the world do you see the infighting between the 2 vocal groups of anime fans as any sort of logical conclusion to anything

The infighting is simply the logical conclusion of people who'd rather not see Anime die in the US vs those who may or may not care.

There is a difference. Majority of fans are normal people who download and buy together in moderate amounts and go to conventions and all that warm fuzzy stuff. They aren't the fans that are the most vocal however

And btw is there a problem with a guy writing poetry? (yes that's sarcasm btw)

I disagree that the middle of the road fans aren't vocal. I am vocal, ikillchicken is vocal.